Search Engine Watch
SEO News

Go Back   Search Engine Watch Forums > Search Engines & Directories > Google > Google AdWords
FAQ Members List Calendar Forum Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 06-24-2005   #1
apcorob
total newbie
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: California
Posts: 3
apcorob is on a distinguished road
Does it make sense to purchase advertising if you are number 1, 2 or 3 on page one???

Another possibly silly question.

I hope the many experts out there can help.

Does it ever make sense to purchase paid positions when you have the top organic listing for the same search term?

I know that I almost always click on the organic listings and ignore the paid listings.

Please help if you will.
apcorob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2005   #2
doc816
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 48
doc816 is on a distinguished road
I wouldn't do it.

Anyone whos going to click on your sponsored listing when you're showing up in organic results is most likely a competitor or a web crawler. Thats just my opinion.
doc816 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2005   #3
apcorob
total newbie
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: California
Posts: 3
apcorob is on a distinguished road
that is what I thought also....

thank you very much

Rob
apcorob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2005   #4
Robert_Charlton
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Oakland, CA
Posts: 743
Robert_Charlton has much to be proud ofRobert_Charlton has much to be proud ofRobert_Charlton has much to be proud ofRobert_Charlton has much to be proud ofRobert_Charlton has much to be proud ofRobert_Charlton has much to be proud ofRobert_Charlton has much to be proud ofRobert_Charlton has much to be proud ofRobert_Charlton has much to be proud of
Quote:
Originally Posted by apcorob
Does it ever make sense to purchase paid positions when you have the top organic listing for the same search term?

I know that I almost always click on the organic listings and ignore the paid listings.
Probably depends on the type of listing. If both paid and organic listings are recognizable as belonging to the same company, I'd strongly recommend maintaining the paid as well as the organic.

I've posted on this specific question twice, so I don't want to repeat the same material over and over, but I'll quote the essence of what I've said before and provide links to the two threads on the subject...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Charlton
Greg Jarboe at SES reported a symbiotic effect between top organic and top paid listings. Basically, he said, top rankings in both types of listings reinforce each other, tripling click through rates in both. This results in lower cost per click on your AdWords listing....
Ad Words vs Standard seach placement
http://forums.searchenginewatch.com/...ad.php?p=32224

SEO vs Ads
http://forums.searchenginewatch.com/...ad.php?p=29497
Robert_Charlton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2005   #5
Chris Boggs
 
Chris Boggs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Near Cleveland, OH
Posts: 1,722
Chris Boggs has much to be proud ofChris Boggs has much to be proud ofChris Boggs has much to be proud ofChris Boggs has much to be proud ofChris Boggs has much to be proud ofChris Boggs has much to be proud ofChris Boggs has much to be proud ofChris Boggs has much to be proud ofChris Boggs has much to be proud of
Look at it from a real estate point of view. If you own two restaurants on the most popular block in town, wouldn't you be happier? It depends really on your CPC and your profit margin, but I always say "the more the merrier." With 1, 2 oe 3 organic rank, I also like to sometimes bid in at #6,7, or 8 (depending if there are ads "on top") in order to have one listing "above the fold" and one below when they scroll down.

Robert's links are good reads...
Chris Boggs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2005   #6
Discovery
Jerry Nordstrom
 
Discovery's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: San Diego
Posts: 1,029
Discovery has much to be proud ofDiscovery has much to be proud ofDiscovery has much to be proud ofDiscovery has much to be proud ofDiscovery has much to be proud ofDiscovery has much to be proud ofDiscovery has much to be proud ofDiscovery has much to be proud ofDiscovery has much to be proud ofDiscovery has much to be proud of
A balanced thought

One of the most difficult things for me as a marketer is to not overly apply my own logic to what I think visitor behavior/logic should or could be. I, like many of you spend many hours online running a business, much of our behavior on the net is second nature to us. Although I believe I have a very good understanding of my target audience I am still frequently surprised by their behavior. Sometimes in designing ad creative, websites and even navigational schemes I have to keep myself in check and make sure I am designing for the lowest common denominator, not myself. What is simple and logical to me, is NOT a good representation of the whole.

So in sum I agree with the majority here, both spots are valuable. I know many people who do not trust the organic listings for they feel that many spammers live there (and they do). On the other hand many say they only go for organic listings, since these listings represent unsolicited recommendations by the search engine for being relevant.

Both opinions have truth to them. So both spots are needed.

Lead Discovery
Discovery is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2005   #7
ElizabethReynolds
swimming in a sea of keywords...
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 26
ElizabethReynolds is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Discovery
Both opinions have truth to them. So both spots are needed.
Agreed. I think it's worth what you pay to a few crawlers to get the visibility. 70% of the time searchers click on organic listings (or something like that, don't worry about correcting me, you get the point), but they still see the paid listings on the right. Call it Branding, relevancy reinforcement, whatever you want, being seen twice is better than once IMHO.

-ER
ElizabethReynolds is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2005   #8
mcanerin
 
mcanerin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 1,564
mcanerin has a reputation beyond reputemcanerin has a reputation beyond reputemcanerin has a reputation beyond reputemcanerin has a reputation beyond reputemcanerin has a reputation beyond reputemcanerin has a reputation beyond reputemcanerin has a reputation beyond reputemcanerin has a reputation beyond reputemcanerin has a reputation beyond reputemcanerin has a reputation beyond reputemcanerin has a reputation beyond repute
I'll tell you this - if I see an ad on the right and the same website in the organics, I'll assume they are doing *something* right and click - on the organic, usually (unless the ad is really good).

They re-enforce each other - it's really hard to get onto page one once, let alone twice - I would not give that up without a fight and a really, really good reason.

I seem to remember some stats that say that a user who sees a listing in the organics and PPC on the same page is 3 TIMES more likely to click - not two times, three times!

My own personal experience appears to confirm this, though I actually haven't measured it scientifically.

Ian
__________________
International SEO
mcanerin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2005   #9
Nacho
 
Nacho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: La Jolla, CA
Posts: 1,382
Nacho is a splendid one to beholdNacho is a splendid one to beholdNacho is a splendid one to beholdNacho is a splendid one to beholdNacho is a splendid one to beholdNacho is a splendid one to beholdNacho is a splendid one to beholdNacho is a splendid one to behold
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Boggs
Look at it from a real estate point of view.
That's exactly how we look at it for all our clients. Including partering with other listings on the SERPs to do their fulfillment when it comes to ecommerce. For PPC, if you still get an ROI, then go for it -- better to have that business that give it to your competition.
Nacho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2005   #10
AussieWebmaster
Forums Editor, SearchEngineWatch
 
AussieWebmaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: NYC
Posts: 8,154
AussieWebmaster has a brilliant futureAussieWebmaster has a brilliant futureAussieWebmaster has a brilliant futureAussieWebmaster has a brilliant futureAussieWebmaster has a brilliant futureAussieWebmaster has a brilliant futureAussieWebmaster has a brilliant futureAussieWebmaster has a brilliant futureAussieWebmaster has a brilliant futureAussieWebmaster has a brilliant futureAussieWebmaster has a brilliant future
If you already have the organic listing you can do an AB test of your own. Stop your PPC for a week and see if the numbers drop significantly.

Also tag the PPC and do a CPA analysis. If the price is acceptable I would leave them.

Not knowing your industry it could be different, but the numbers in mine and most of the people I know support having them both. The biggest thing is to test and measure... you should be able to get numbers for organic and PPC conversions if you are using the right software.
AussieWebmaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2005   #11
shor
aka Lucas Ng. Aussie online marketer.
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 161
shor is a jewel in the roughshor is a jewel in the roughshor is a jewel in the roughshor is a jewel in the rough
Just to ram the point home, another vote for doing both.

As others have said the positive reinforcement and prominent above the fold visibility will increase not only your natural CTR but also paid CTR which then drives down PPC.

Remember, traditional (and online) marketing have been doing it for years. Setting up a roadblock for SERPs is a no-brainer IMO. The only concern (as noted by others) is your ROI i.e. making sure your CPA is within an acceptable range - however, in my experience we rarely found a paid listing in such a scenario that sat outside our CPA comfort zone.
shor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2005   #12
dannysullivan
Editor, SearchEngineLand.com (Info, Great Columns & Daily Recap Of Search News!)
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Search Engine Land
Posts: 2,085
dannysullivan has much to be proud ofdannysullivan has much to be proud ofdannysullivan has much to be proud ofdannysullivan has much to be proud ofdannysullivan has much to be proud ofdannysullivan has much to be proud ofdannysullivan has much to be proud ofdannysullivan has much to be proud of
A little more reading:

PPC versus Organic Results
http://forums.searchenginewatch.com/showthread.php?p=6269

Another thread here on the topic, which also lists a ClickZ article.

Balancing Paid and Organic Search Listings

http://searchenginewatch.com/searchd...le.php/3095871

Older article from SearchDay with coverage of this issue out of a Search Engine Strategies session on the same topic.
dannysullivan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2005   #13
Shak
dot communist
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 36
Shak will become famous soon enough
YES, YES and YES

purchase what ever you can in the land grab...

been there done that and got a very nice t-shirt

Shak
Shak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2005   #14
AussieWebmaster
Forums Editor, SearchEngineWatch
 
AussieWebmaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: NYC
Posts: 8,154
AussieWebmaster has a brilliant futureAussieWebmaster has a brilliant futureAussieWebmaster has a brilliant futureAussieWebmaster has a brilliant futureAussieWebmaster has a brilliant futureAussieWebmaster has a brilliant futureAussieWebmaster has a brilliant futureAussieWebmaster has a brilliant futureAussieWebmaster has a brilliant futureAussieWebmaster has a brilliant futureAussieWebmaster has a brilliant future
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shak
YES, YES and YES

purchase what ever you can in the land grab...

been there done that and got a very nice t-shirt

Shak
I didn't get the T-shirt!!!!!

But there are a bunch of listings we hold say 7 of the 20 listings.... combined CTR is higher than 35%
AussieWebmaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2005   #15
vicyankees
Unknown User
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Unknown
Posts: 65
vicyankees is on a distinguished road
There was a cool study done on users and their eye-tracking... shows where people first look when they go to a result in google. Not like anyone expected it to be different than the results. but it's cool to see.

http://www.enquiro.com/eye-tracking-pr.asp
vicyankees is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2005   #16
adamjthompson
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 17
adamjthompson is on a distinguished road
I have been in that situation before. I was #1 &/or 2 on my main keywords. If I wasn't really concerned about sales, I paused my CPC campaigns. However, if I wanted the extra sales, I ean my CPC ads with the same profitibility as when I wasn't in the organic listings.
adamjthompson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2005   #17
jewboy
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Manhattan
Posts: 192
jewboy is a jewel in the roughjewboy is a jewel in the roughjewboy is a jewel in the roughjewboy is a jewel in the rough
Measure twice, cut once...

And old and wise adage that certainly applies.
jewboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2005   #18
AussieWebmaster
Forums Editor, SearchEngineWatch
 
AussieWebmaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: NYC
Posts: 8,154
AussieWebmaster has a brilliant futureAussieWebmaster has a brilliant futureAussieWebmaster has a brilliant futureAussieWebmaster has a brilliant futureAussieWebmaster has a brilliant futureAussieWebmaster has a brilliant futureAussieWebmaster has a brilliant futureAussieWebmaster has a brilliant futureAussieWebmaster has a brilliant futureAussieWebmaster has a brilliant futureAussieWebmaster has a brilliant future
Quote:
Originally Posted by promediacorp
And old and wise adage that certainly applies.
Measure twice, cut once????

I would have thought... if at first you don't suceed, try, try again...
AussieWebmaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2005   #19
jewboy
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Manhattan
Posts: 192
jewboy is a jewel in the roughjewboy is a jewel in the roughjewboy is a jewel in the roughjewboy is a jewel in the rough
A penny saved is a penny earned.

Think outside the box.

Any other cliches? J/K :-D
jewboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2005   #20
labeler2003
Believer
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Tualatin, OR
Posts: 6
labeler2003 is on a distinguished road
With PPC you write the text and can target it at a specific market segment. Create PPC text that complements the descriptions shown for your organic listings and pick up additional visitors who might not have otherwise clicked on the organic listing.
labeler2003 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off