Search Engine Watch
SEO News

Go Back   Search Engine Watch Forums > Search Engines & Directories > Google > Google Web Search
FAQ Members List Calendar Forum Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 06-02-2004   #1
dannysullivan
Editor, SearchEngineLand.com (Info, Great Columns & Daily Recap Of Search News!)
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Search Engine Land
Posts: 2,085
dannysullivan has much to be proud ofdannysullivan has much to be proud ofdannysullivan has much to be proud ofdannysullivan has much to be proud ofdannysullivan has much to be proud ofdannysullivan has much to be proud ofdannysullivan has much to be proud ofdannysullivan has much to be proud of
Google Results Different Outside The US

Just came from a session of our SES London show dealing with language issues and how search engines create listings for their non-US sites.

Google suggested that it's doing more to show different results to those outside the US, if you use non-US versions of Google.

In other words, say you do a search at Google.com across the entire web, then use Google Germany to do the same search across the entire web. Traditionally, the results have been the same except for some possible minor variances.

Today, Google implied that the Google Germany search would now be more skewed toward favoring German related sites -- even if you hadn't specifically used the filter to German sites option. In other words, nothing would be filtered, but because you are using the German site, those sites might get a preference.

Google even implied that if you were to go to Google.com from outside the US, the results there might be more customized to your location, even when searching the entire web -- though likely to less degree than if you searched the entire web on Google Germany.

I keep saying implied because they stopped short of saying they actually do this, phrasing things like "you can imagine that we might" or "it wouldn't be surprising if." Qualifications aside, it explains some increasing reports I've heard from others that searching the entire web via Google but from outside the US brings back different results.
dannysullivan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2004   #2
easycure
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Barcelona, Spain
Posts: 19
easycure is on a distinguished road
Extremely interesting info, thanks

Until now I haven't noticed anything other than very minor variations using google.es

If they go in that direction they are going to make my life MUCH more difficult, maybe also more interesting, but for sure more difficult.

When you say:

Quote:
Today, Google implied that the Google Germany search would now be more skewed toward favoring German related sites -- even if you hadn't specifically used the filter to German sites option.
That would mean sites in german or sites from Germany or both (in the same or different ways)?

I work a lot with sites in spanish, so you can guess why I worry...sites in Spain and in Spanish, sites in Spain and spanish targeting Latinamerica, sites in spanish in Latinamerica targeting Spain, sites in spanish targeting the latinos in the US...
easycure is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2004   #3
rustybrick
 
rustybrick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: New York, USA
Posts: 2,810
rustybrick has much to be proud ofrustybrick has much to be proud ofrustybrick has much to be proud ofrustybrick has much to be proud ofrustybrick has much to be proud ofrustybrick has much to be proud ofrustybrick has much to be proud ofrustybrick has much to be proud of
Thought so...I have been seeing this reported for a few months now.

I did my own tests and depending on the level of competitiveness the results could vary greatly between us results and german results.

I posted something about this at the Roundtable. It reads:

Quote:
About a week before the Florida update (November 2003) I began conducting tests to determine the weight given to sites hosted in a specific country and the likelihood of that specific site coming up higher in the results when conducting a search from within that country. What sprung my interest in this topic was the complaints I was getting from overseas (outside the US) SEO Count customers. This tool is US centric because the results are driven by the Google API, so if you conduct a search with it, it will bring back US centric results. Those who used this application from outside the US (including most of Canada) received different results then what was listed in the Google API.

So I began gathering data by coming up with several keyword phrases, both very competitive and not so competitive, and looked up the site's server geographic location. After determining the site's physical location, I asked colleagues around the world to send me the top 30 results for those searches. What I found was that based on what country your searching from, you will more likely see site's that rank higher based on the location of the server the site is on.

For example, if Site A is located in Germany and I am conducting a search on a keyword related to Site A in a pub in Germany, then Site A is likely to rank higher then sites with a physical location in America. There are obviously other considerations but the results I have found were really revealing.

Unfortunately, I stopped the data gathering process due to the Florida update. At that time the results were all over the place. I have not continued the research but I hope to soon.

Last edited by rustybrick : 06-02-2004 at 01:55 PM.
rustybrick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2004   #4
Anthony Parsons
Rubbing the shine of the knobs who think they're better than everyone else...
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Melbourne Australia
Posts: 478
Anthony Parsons will become famous soon enough
I think that sucks just quietly. This is the exact reason you have a definitive choice between (web) & (regional). Choose your button! Why I would want to search regional, get results, then search the web and get similar results is beyond me. Do Google really have their thinking hats on for this one?

Sorry, but it sounds very silly to me Danny.

The results outside the US version are exact or only out by one or two placements. For the most part of it, you could just say they are the same unless you wanted to split hairs over it.
Anthony Parsons is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2004   #5
Anthony Parsons
Rubbing the shine of the knobs who think they're better than everyone else...
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Melbourne Australia
Posts: 478
Anthony Parsons will become famous soon enough
Google says a lot of things though too. Like, at HR OWG posted a letter he received from Google about regional search and whether its best to have a regional domain or hosted in that country. Well, Googles response is host in that country, however; didn't take long and one of my forum members has server space in the US, so US IP, and his customers with .au domains are hosted upon it. Guess What? Those .au domains are reflected in Googles regional search, nothing to do with the hosted server location at all. They are playing us in some aspects IMO. Tell us only what they want us to know.
Anthony Parsons is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2004   #6
rustybrick
 
rustybrick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: New York, USA
Posts: 2,810
rustybrick has much to be proud ofrustybrick has much to be proud ofrustybrick has much to be proud ofrustybrick has much to be proud ofrustybrick has much to be proud ofrustybrick has much to be proud ofrustybrick has much to be proud ofrustybrick has much to be proud of
During my tests in November 2003, I saw a correlation between sites hosted outside the US and sites in the top results while conducting a search while outside the US.

I do not think this is a fairy tale.
rustybrick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2004   #7
Anthony Parsons
Rubbing the shine of the knobs who think they're better than everyone else...
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Melbourne Australia
Posts: 478
Anthony Parsons will become famous soon enough
Yer, I don't think it is an absolute fairy tale Barry, just that the way in which Google responded, then some chatting and analysis, and well lah! US servers hosting .au domains and listed in Google .au search immediately.

The reason I really detest what Google has replied with is that in Australia, hosting is not even comparible to what it costs in the US. You would not get any account in Australia, like iPowerweb do for example even close to their prices. You would be looking at 5 x that cost for the same bandwidth and space.

So something like that from Google, makes you think, bugger, now I have to pay heaps more to get listed in their .au regional search. Yahoo and MSN don't care where your site is hosted.

That was the main upset I think with that email they sent Barry.

Quote:
Searches that are restricted to a country domain should only return sites that are physically hosted in that country, regardless of the extension. If you would like your site or others in the UK to be returned in a 'UK sites only' search, we recommend that you have the site hosted in that country. This should make it more likely that your site will return in a search for pages from that country.
I think it was a little deceiving from what actually happens. My initial though was, crap. I host my clients that only target Oz, in Oz, but the rest, no way. Now I may think about getting them more value for their buck?
Anthony Parsons is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2004   #8
AussieWebmaster
Forums Editor, SearchEngineWatch
 
AussieWebmaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: NYC
Posts: 8,154
AussieWebmaster has a brilliant futureAussieWebmaster has a brilliant futureAussieWebmaster has a brilliant futureAussieWebmaster has a brilliant futureAussieWebmaster has a brilliant futureAussieWebmaster has a brilliant futureAussieWebmaster has a brilliant futureAussieWebmaster has a brilliant futureAussieWebmaster has a brilliant futureAussieWebmaster has a brilliant futureAussieWebmaster has a brilliant future
hmmm

I will try and get a definitive answer about this tomorrow... will be in the Google NYC office.
That is if they will give one.
AussieWebmaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2004   #9
Anthony Parsons
Rubbing the shine of the knobs who think they're better than everyone else...
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Melbourne Australia
Posts: 478
Anthony Parsons will become famous soon enough
Uuummm, an answer from another Google office would be nice to compare notes. See if the left hand is talking to the right and all???

That'd be tops mate. Cheers.
Anthony Parsons is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2004   #10
mcanerin
 
mcanerin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 1,564
mcanerin has a reputation beyond reputemcanerin has a reputation beyond reputemcanerin has a reputation beyond reputemcanerin has a reputation beyond reputemcanerin has a reputation beyond reputemcanerin has a reputation beyond reputemcanerin has a reputation beyond reputemcanerin has a reputation beyond reputemcanerin has a reputation beyond reputemcanerin has a reputation beyond reputemcanerin has a reputation beyond repute
All the major SE's look at the TLD first for geolocation, then at the secondary characteristics of IP and link analysis.

Google is the only major one that looks at IP address. Yahoo, MSN and Teoma all use link analysis instead. I asked this directly of the reps at the recent Toronto SES because this is an area of interest of mine (and I was speaking on the subject later that day and wanted to make sure of my facts)

So it would not matter where you were hosted, as long as you have the .au, .ca, etc.

It becomes an issue when you have a .com/net/org, and then you begin to see the effect of IP/server location in Googles case, and hub/authority membership in the case of the others.

Ian
__________________
International SEO
mcanerin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2004   #11
dannysullivan
Editor, SearchEngineLand.com (Info, Great Columns & Daily Recap Of Search News!)
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Search Engine Land
Posts: 2,085
dannysullivan has much to be proud ofdannysullivan has much to be proud ofdannysullivan has much to be proud ofdannysullivan has much to be proud ofdannysullivan has much to be proud ofdannysullivan has much to be proud ofdannysullivan has much to be proud ofdannysullivan has much to be proud of
Quote:
That would mean sites in german or sites from Germany or both (in the same or different ways)?
Honestly don't know for certain. My impression would be that they'd favor sites that are hosted in Germany/seen as German based. Most of those are likely written in Germany, of course.

Quote:
I think that sucks just quietly. This is the exact reason you have a definitive choice between (web) & (regional). Choose your button! Why I would want to search regional, get results, then search the web and get similar results is beyond me. Do Google really have their thinking hats on for this one?
I can see it both ways. Many people may simply not make use of the country filter option -- some might not even notice it. So having a mild default tweak to favor sites from a particular country has some advantages, even if you are doing a "entire web" search.

However, my preference would be for this not to happen. That's especially so if someone has explictly chosen to visit Google.com. If you use that site, you ought to be able to see exactly what anyone else would see.

FYI, Yahoo seems to be doing the same thing but even more radically, for when you search at Yahoo.com outside the US. It's on my follow-up list.

Quote:
So something like that from Google, makes you think, bugger, now I have to pay heaps more to get listed in their .au regional search. Yahoo and MSN don't care where your site is hosted.
Well, to recap a few other key points on being seen regionally specific by Google:

+ Host in a particular country, you'll almost certainly be seen as related to that country. So put your .com or .au site physically in Australia, and you should be seen as Australian

+ Have a country-specific domain. Got .au? Then even if you host in the US, you should still seem like an Australian site to Google. But what if you are an Australian site using .com? Then unfortunately, you're stuck -- the .com part doesn't expressly say Australian, so chances are if you host in the US, you won't be seen as Australian.

+ Write in a country-specific language. Write in French, you may be seen as a French-based site, maybe. You'll definitely be seen as a French-language site.

+ Links. If you have many links from major country-specific sites, then that might help you seem related. IE, get sites that are known to be seen as Australian to link to your site, and it might be seen as Australian.
dannysullivan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2004   #12
Nacho
 
Nacho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: La Jolla, CA
Posts: 1,382
Nacho is a splendid one to beholdNacho is a splendid one to beholdNacho is a splendid one to beholdNacho is a splendid one to beholdNacho is a splendid one to beholdNacho is a splendid one to beholdNacho is a splendid one to beholdNacho is a splendid one to behold
Danny, I'm sure you experience this a lot in the U.K., so It's nice to see things change. They are paying more attention to detail and differentiation into other countries now.

I have also been told that even with U.S. search, the engines will balance out language in the algorithm to those link clusters that determine communities, such as with the Hispanic Market for searches in Spanish for example, where a highly popular Hispanic business site talking about “publicidad para Hispanos” (translates to "advertising to Hispanics") would rank higher than the popular online version of the NY newspaper section in Spanish talking about the same. Supposing both sites have equal link popularity and optimization.

I look forward to see this happen sometime soon and drop some of those implications we hear a lot.

I will be in Mexico for the next 5 days and have remote access to my PC at the office (U.S.), so I will be testing a lot and can see both, so I will let you guys know. I'll try KWs in multiple themes that are commercial and non-profit content.
Nacho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2004   #13
qwerty
Proudly Title-Free
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Somerville MA US
Posts: 134
qwerty will become famous soon enoughqwerty will become famous soon enough
Just to clarify... It was stated that the SERPs at google.com may differ depending on the user's location, but would this mean that if I, in the US, run a search at google.fr, I may see a different SERP from what someone in France would see running the same query on google.fr with the same settings?

I'd hate to brag to a client in France that I'd gotten them to number 1 on .fr, have them check on it and tell me I'm lying.
qwerty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2004   #14
rustybrick
 
rustybrick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: New York, USA
Posts: 2,810
rustybrick has much to be proud ofrustybrick has much to be proud ofrustybrick has much to be proud ofrustybrick has much to be proud ofrustybrick has much to be proud ofrustybrick has much to be proud ofrustybrick has much to be proud ofrustybrick has much to be proud of
correct. The reason I found out about this was because I offer a tool that checks SERPs using the Google API. Many of the customers are from overseas, and many of them were complaining that the results were wrong.

I did some investigating and learned that the Google API only brings back US centric results.

So if they are in France, the results can and often do differ from the US centric results.

You can be #1 on the screen of a person conducting a query in a US based office, but #3 on the screen of a person conducting a query in a UK based office.
rustybrick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2004   #15
Anthony Parsons
Rubbing the shine of the knobs who think they're better than everyone else...
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Melbourne Australia
Posts: 478
Anthony Parsons will become famous soon enough
As I said earlier, the idea sucks. Who ever thought that one up at Google, or even mentioned it as a future concept should take themselves out the back and give themselves 10 or so uppercuts and wake up!

G is different and all, that's what stands it out, but stupidity is a whole new kettle of fish.
Anthony Parsons is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2004   #16
AussieWebmaster
Forums Editor, SearchEngineWatch
 
AussieWebmaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: NYC
Posts: 8,154
AussieWebmaster has a brilliant futureAussieWebmaster has a brilliant futureAussieWebmaster has a brilliant futureAussieWebmaster has a brilliant futureAussieWebmaster has a brilliant futureAussieWebmaster has a brilliant futureAussieWebmaster has a brilliant futureAussieWebmaster has a brilliant futureAussieWebmaster has a brilliant futureAussieWebmaster has a brilliant futureAussieWebmaster has a brilliant future
I beg to differ

It is good to know that this is being done... I see Google's viewpoint, local results should be more applicable to users... optimizing by country has been something we have incorporated in our approach... we use muliple languages, so the pages for the language specific keywords work, especially through support of language related and country specific inbound links...
We also grab the .au etc as available.... local presence is required in some cases... we had to establish a physical presence to improve and allow us to get into certain directories...
This is an ever expanding part of the industry now and it is good to see people working it as diligently as other elements.

Let's keep this going and provide some new insights.
AussieWebmaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2004   #17
digitalpoint
Master of the Universe
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: San Diego, USA
Posts: 16
digitalpoint is on a distinguished road
They have been doing it for some time now, and it's a good idea in my opinion. Google is trying to return the most relevant results to the user, so putting a small weight on sites physically hosted in Germany for people searching from German IP addresses (as an example) is a good things.

The results are never wildly different, but it's definitely part of their algorithms.
digitalpoint is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2004   #18
AussieWebmaster
Forums Editor, SearchEngineWatch
 
AussieWebmaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: NYC
Posts: 8,154
AussieWebmaster has a brilliant futureAussieWebmaster has a brilliant futureAussieWebmaster has a brilliant futureAussieWebmaster has a brilliant futureAussieWebmaster has a brilliant futureAussieWebmaster has a brilliant futureAussieWebmaster has a brilliant futureAussieWebmaster has a brilliant futureAussieWebmaster has a brilliant futureAussieWebmaster has a brilliant futureAussieWebmaster has a brilliant future
clarification

According to someone at Google the searches first recognize where the surfer is coming from and also the Google domain they are searching with.

The results are filtered by that method and yes then the IP address and domain of the site also has a play in the varied rankings.
AussieWebmaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2004   #19
domain
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 3
domain is on a distinguished road
UK Google Adwords Not Appearing on Google.com?

I have noticed since Monday 24th May that whenever I do a search on google.com none of my adwords appear? Instead I see US adword advertisers.

If I do the same search on Google.co.uk they appear okay - either by searching under "the web" or "pages from the UK". I was at SES yesterday, visited the Google stand and the adwords did appear on the .com site okay when I did a search?

However, one of my clients has noticed a considerable drop in enquiries over the last 10 days and when I visited him this evening he could not see his ads on the .com site either?

The ads are set up to appear in the UK only, but prior to the 24th May they automatically appeared on both the .co.uk AND the .com sites?

Anyone else in the UK experiencing the same problems?
domain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2004   #20
mcanerin
 
mcanerin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 1,564
mcanerin has a reputation beyond reputemcanerin has a reputation beyond reputemcanerin has a reputation beyond reputemcanerin has a reputation beyond reputemcanerin has a reputation beyond reputemcanerin has a reputation beyond reputemcanerin has a reputation beyond reputemcanerin has a reputation beyond reputemcanerin has a reputation beyond reputemcanerin has a reputation beyond reputemcanerin has a reputation beyond repute
This isn't just a Google thing.

For example, msn.ca does NOT offer a Canadian Sites Only button, instead, it gives a bonus to Canadian sites searched on it automatically - no opt out.

Looks like Google is moving towards the same type of thing. Interesting.

Ian
__________________
International SEO
mcanerin is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off