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Old 06-02-2004   #1
Bnizzz
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Get high on Froogle

Boy thats a misleading title, but I do have a question and a thought on the subject.

The question: Does anyone have a clear plan on how to get within those first 3 listings that appear on the Google results page?

The thought: If I checked out the listing for a product before I uploaded a feed to Froogle, I would see the lowest price for that product and price my listing 1 penny lower. It seems to me that when a user sorts by price lowest to highest(who doesnt do that?) that my product listing would almost always be first. Any thoughts on that?
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Old 06-02-2004   #2
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Don't want to distract from your question, but I think the question also needs to be asked "How does a Froogle listing get onto the Google (top 3) SERPs?"

Clearly not all the Froogle indexed products appear in Google. Can't seem to figure out how it decides.
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Old 06-03-2004   #3
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This topic has been discussed in the other forums in the past.

I remember one, not sure if it is still accurate (its possible things changed since then). Here is how I summed up a thread at SEO Chat:

The basic premise is that Froogle pulls from the top matches for the three price ranges. According to Syragon, this means that they are looking at the low, medium and high price brackets and pulling one from each bracket. The ones selected from each bracket are the ones that are froogle optimized.

So how do I conduct Froogle optimization?
Both Egol and Syragon from SEO Chat discuss what they have seen that works for their Web sites. Egol says, "If you submit a datafeed the content of your site does not factor into your ranking. Instead your ranking is determined by the content of your data feed. The title of your listing and the exact text of your item description are the important things." And Syragon adds, "They select a low, middle, and high range for the top 3. When I say low middle and high I mean price range. They pick the "best match" from these 3 ranges and display them in order of lowest price to highest price."

from 02/20/04
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Old 06-03-2004   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rustybrick
And Syragon adds, "They select a low, middle, and high range for the top 3. When I say low middle and high I mean price range. They pick the "best match" from these 3 ranges and display them in order of lowest price to highest price."
from 02/20/04
Hi Barry:

With regard to 'low' and 'high,' are these ranges or is it the lowest and highest. In other words, would you be likely one of the 3 selected if you had the lowest or highest priced product for a given search term match?
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Old 06-03-2004   #5
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I think its the low of the low, the low of the middle and the low of the high.

Does that make sense?

Maybe, if I have time, I'll build a program to analyze Froogle's data. That would be fun.
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Old 06-03-2004   #6
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That would be terrific, Barry.

To my knowledge, you'd be the first.

Every since Google became less timid about promoting and finally a link on their homepage to Froogle, I've seen very pleasing results. For online merchants like myself, its the best deal in town (free). I think its popularity will continue to grow and it would be great to have a tool to analyze this stuff, rather than guessing.
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Old 06-03-2004   #7
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You know what, I will put one of my developers on this project now.

Please let me know what data you think we should collect:

Keyword Search:
Results 1 - 20
For each result store: title, product name, url, price, page rank for the product landing page, product description, company name...

Anything else?
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Old 06-03-2004   #8
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Boy, you do move fast.

In addition the fields you already mentioned, I was thinking we could get our low, medium, high question definitively answered by placing an educated guess next to each SERP result.

Example:

query=widget

Product Price PriceGroup (estimate)
Widget1 $10 low
Widget2 $11 low
Widget3 $12 low
Widget4 $13 medium
Widget5 $14 medium
Widget6 $15 medium
Widget7 $16 medium
Widget8 $17 high
Widget9 $18 high
Widget10 $19 high

It would also be really helpful to put, if possible, if any of the above were in the top 3 Google SERPs (for Froogle).

I still can't seem to figure out the pattern as to when Froogle decides to insert the results in Google.

For example, a search for "books" produces no reaction from Froogle.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&q=books

Where as search for "cookware" does.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&l...F-8&q=cookware

There are more than 200 times more books listings than there are cookware listings in Froogle. Hmmm.

Also the rank in Google versus the rank in Froogle might prove very interesting as well to see if there is any correlation.

Love to help you out with BETA testing when you've got something pulled together.
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Old 06-03-2004   #9
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Thanks for the help. If anyone else wants to chime in before I begin this project, let me know. This thread will make for the project specification and I hope to start it today. Of course you can beta test, once we have something ready. I do not think it is a major project, maybe a day or two of full time work for one programmer.

Do you mean by the top 3 Google results, the organic results and not the Froogle results in google.com?

Because the Froogle results in google.com are the top 3 in Froogle.com for that keyword match.

But in that case, it might be interesting to see the top 20 organic results in google.com, possibly also the sponsored listings.
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Old 06-03-2004   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rustybrick
Do you mean by the top 3 Google results, the organic results and not the Froogle results in google.com?

Because the Froogle results in google.com are the top 3 in Froogle.com for that keyword match.

But in that case, it might be interesting to see the top 20 organic results in google.com, possibly also the sponsored listings.
Sorry if that was unclear, Barry. I meant the top 3 Froogle results that gets displayed at Google.com (like in my 'cookware' example). Basically, as your program is displaying its Froogle results, it would be interesting to see which of those made it over to Google (top 3 non-organic) and which ones didn't.
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Old 06-03-2004   #11
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For that it looks like it takes to the top 3 "best matches" from froogle and orders them by price in google.com.

http://froogle.google.com/froogle?q=...=1&sa=N&tab=ff

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&l...F-8&q=cookware

But, we will store this info.

Ok will get started on this shortly.
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Old 06-07-2004   #12
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Ok, data collection tool is almost 100% built.

Please provide a list of keywords you would like me to test and I will run it on those keywords.

I will then publish the raw results and the statistics I run in SAS and Excel.
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Old 06-07-2004   #13
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Purely selfish, but how about:

art prints
canvas transfers
posters

Looking forward to seeing what you've got.
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Old 06-07-2004   #14
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Ok, but results only show up in the main Google if the keyword is more specific. We can also gather info on generic keywords but see http://www.google.com/search?q=art+p...UTF-8&oe=UTF-8 versus http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&l...t3&btnG=Search

See difference?
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Old 06-07-2004   #15
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Also, I think the data feed itself, the data you send them is important.

Is anyone willing to send me their feeds to help with the study?
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Old 06-07-2004   #16
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Hi Barry:

I'll send you my data feed via e-mail. How many records would you like?
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Old 06-07-2004   #17
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As many as you like, I won't use all of them. I will try to use a set up results that vary in terms of competitiveness.

My email is barry @ my screen name .com
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Old 06-07-2004   #18
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Another thing that I'm not sure yet if it takes into play, but since my ecommerce retail company is a Yahoo! Store and they have been feeding our listings to Froogle ever since it started, I'm not sure if there is any boost in the algo as to the feed comes from a trusted source?

We also have our RSS/XML feed listed on the footer to all out pages as well.

Right now, I believe we appear well for many of our products, so perhaps you might like to test our feed. I will send you a link through a PM.

Thanks for doing this for all of us Barry!!
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Old 06-07-2004   #19
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Excellent, I don't want to miss anything. Of course I will. So keep it coming.

Thank you,

Barry
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Old 06-07-2004   #20
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Shari Thurow published a good interview with Froogle's Craig Nevill-Manning:

Questions for Froogle's Mastermind, Part 1
Questions for Froogle's Mastermind, Part 2
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