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Old 10-20-2004   #1
bethabernathy
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The Right way to Count Links?

Over at SEO Chat member clasionediscusses ways to count links to a website.

If you were to speak to a client about obtaining links for them, what would be the best way to determine how many links they would need to beat their competitor? Can you stop by looking at the back links from the Google toolbar? That would seem to be just a bit too easy.

Last edited by Elisabeth : 01-24-2005 at 03:38 PM.
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Old 10-20-2004   #2
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you gotta look at the link text and the type and variety of sites the links come from
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Old 10-21-2004   #3
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The problem is, especially in Googles case, that it's not really the quantity of links, but the quality (often measured as PR).

It's very possible to have a site with 10 IBL's outperform a site with a hundred. Often, PR is a better way of measuring it, which isn't very helpful since PR isn't a very good way to do it either.

A PR 8 page with a hundred links on it will often pass on less PR than a PR7 page with 10, for example, so you can't even just count PR.

Then throw in the fact that apparently certain authority sites pass on more link pop then others in Yahoo, and things start getting messy....

I usually don't aim for a specific number - I just look at the competitors IBL's and say "some good ones" or "a LOT of good ones" and then get as many as practical for the site.

Think of it like a race - rather than trying to figure out how fast your competitor will be going and then trying to go a bit faster, it's easier and safer to just go as fast as you can and forget about them (especially since they can change speed, or get more IBL's, at anytime anyway).

Cheers,

Ian
errrr..... IBL = "Incoming Back Link"
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Old 10-21-2004   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcanerin
Think of it like a race - rather than trying to figure out how fast your competitor will be going and then trying to go a bit faster, it's easier and safer to just go as fast as you can and forget about them
wonder if it is that line of thinking that causes those poor racecar drivers to crash into the walls...
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Old 10-21-2004   #5
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LOL - good point, seobook!

OK - so you still need to look in your mirror and watch where you steer (rankings or racing), smartypants....

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Old 10-21-2004   #6
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Quote:
just look at the competitors IBL's and say "some good ones" or "a LOT of good ones"
what if your competitor has 40,000 + backlinks you really need a VPN access to google to get all of them lol
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Old 10-21-2004   #7
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Can i ask what a IBL is and what a VPN is?

)Independent Back Link?

havnet a clue on VPN...

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Old 10-21-2004   #8
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Yup with the above points - it's often a juggle between quality and quantity. Too many people think that there number equals value, when it does not at all.
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Old 10-21-2004   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick W
havnet a clue on VPN...
VPN = Virtual Private Network.

Most large and medium sized companies enable outsiders (either employees, consultants and others) VPN access to specific networks internal to the company. VPN is fairly secure and reliable. (I can go on more, but its not relevant to the thread )
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Old 10-21-2004   #10
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Would you count back links by using the Google toolbar mechanism or use something like what was referred to at seochat i.e.:

"Here's a simple Google inside trick you can perform that will crack open the search safe to shed light on the true link popularity of your website hidden within the vast Google indexing data.

Simply perform the following Google search query example using your domain name in conjunction with the "+" sign placed after the "." & before the "com", "net", "org", etc.

Example:
"YourDomainName.+com"

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Old 10-21-2004   #11
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the way i do it, is spider the first 1000 results, then collect all the larger sites and remove them in the spider query and spider again then build a database

collect all the page rank of all the pages then run them throw a IP checker remove all the Urls from the same Class C and then start at the top in PR order..

and start requesting links

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Old 10-21-2004   #12
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Great!!!! Thanks.
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Old 10-21-2004   #13
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Regarding the quality of links - I always try to get as many links as I can from pages that rank in the top 1-200 for all of my search terms at Google. It's a good way to make sure you're getting what Google thinks is a quality link.
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Old 10-21-2004   #14
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and don't forget to link to a few of those sites from your homepage,


if you sell bmw spare parts always link to BMW... if you get what i mean
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Old 10-21-2004   #15
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As my life becomes more unmanageable, I seemingly revert back to the Google toolbar. And ... go from there.
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Old 10-22-2004   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bethabernathy
As my life becomes more unmanageable, I seemingly revert back to the Google toolbar. And ... go from there.
NNNOOOOOOOOOOOO.... the only thing the Google toolbar is good for is getting new pages looked at.... do you really want some BIG Brother watching over you...

lets say you become a bit outspoke about Google, and they wanted to teach you a lesson, tell me which person goes to your site the most and visit other sites on that class C... you tell google everything about you site and your visiting patterns.... Just say NO to GTB

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Old 10-22-2004   #17
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Thank goodness I've finally seen someone post this. Thanks Dave. I was beginning to think maybe I was the only one who had figured that out.
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Old 10-22-2004   #18
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well i have not used toolbar since I became a mod at wmw, I reckon that google would soon pick up on forum urls That where private ... like the backrooms.. once they had found those from toolbar data my days would be numbered... so we developed a pagerank extactor that ran Via proxies and always checked an extra 80% of domains that i did not need...

Later I join a partnership with some computer hardware suppliers to always install the ISP dial-up that I own with the Googletool install and yes you guessed it they all go through my Proxies ... just to put up a larger smoke screen..

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Old 10-22-2004   #19
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I'm not as comfortable divulging how I do it as you. I think that means you should be commended as there are MANY, MANY people who would be well served by employing the techniques you are so graciously willing to share and find a way to wean themselves from the G toolbar. There are better tools to do everything that tb will do and those don't track everywhere you go and every word you say.

Want to argue about ethics and spam? How ethical is it to give the general public a free tool and bundle it with crap whose primary mission is to increase revenue by showing you more ads you never asked to see? If showing me a contextually relevant, (yeah right), ad in my own email, IM and everything else they can think of to bundle in by tracking my personal web habits, is not the very defintion of unsolicited advertising, I can't imagine what is.

This is of course assuming the real mission is simply to just serve better converting ads giving Google an unfair advantage. It may end up being something sinister.

I'm not knocking Google. Microsoft I'm pretty sure has the same basic world domination, take all the money 'cause we can and nobody can stop us, kind of mindset. In fact, I believe most "free" stuff is nothing but crap with an ulterior motive. But I don't run a MS toolbar either and in my opinion, if you're in this business, you shouldn't as well.

Good job DaveN

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Old 10-22-2004   #20
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Well thanks for the kick in the pants. I guess I need a shove. I had explained some of the methods about counting links to a couple of clients yesterday and their eyes started to glaze over and well ... the post
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