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Old 10-07-2006   #1
Jazzcat
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SEO - What Skills Are Crucial?

This is kind of an extension of NewKidOnTheBlock's thread about which qualities are crucial to SEO. My question falls more on the skillset side of things. I've spent a lot of time reading about the theory and practice of SEO, but it's become more and more apparent that I lack the technical skill to implement the stuff I read.

So my question is, what skills are most important to becoming a proficient SEO? Programming before design? And if so, what programming language? Essentially, I'm looking to figure out where to focus my educational efforts first, so I can at least gain a working ability with that skill and move on to the next. So what do you think? Where does a new SEO begin?

Last edited by Marcia : 10-07-2006 at 04:26 PM. Reason: Let's keep responses in the thread so everyone can participate.
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Old 10-07-2006   #2
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I've only been reading (sort of obsessively ) about SEO/SEM for one week, but I have to say a week ago, I thought SEO had to do a lot with programming/A.I. algorithms/etc. but I've come to the conclusion (and have been told), that this is probably FAR less important than I thought.

However, I'm still interested whether the top-notch SEOs in this business do without trying to find algorithm loopholes? Are there (many) top-notch SEOs who are on top of this industry without 'deciphering algorithms', just by using King Content + basics (Including having a BASIC understanding of the way search engines work)?
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Old 10-07-2006   #3
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You know, there are so many different styles and applications of SEO that there is probably no single answer to that.

The SEO who works for clients, the SEO who works on his own affiliate stuff, and the SEO who works in-house on one particular site all have wildly different needs and demands. What is crucial and vital for one of those types may be utterly worthless to another.

For affiliate stuff, what matters is to be able to do the numbers and make a profit. Quality, reputation, and long-term predictions are not big issues. You can crash and burn domains happily so long as you get more out of each one than you put in. Programming matters a lot here, keeping costs down through automation and self-reliance.

The in-house SEO has to worry about the brand and reputation of the company more than his own hide. Rebranding a big brand because you got the domain banned is not going to be possible. It is crucial in this field to be able to accurate assess and spot risks. This type of SEO will have to do a lot more reporting and accounting than most others, and may have a lot of different departments or people to liase with and report to. He'll often have the least time budgeted for research, simply because his managers dispute or doubt the value of him 'just sitting reading'.

The service provider SEO needs to be able to sell his skills, and needs to be credible. He needs to be able to predict results for most clients, and be able to assure them of value before they taste it. He must worry much more about reputation and longevity than the affiliate SEO, but must be able to deliver profitable results to almost as great an extent, without being allowed to take the same risks.

The one thing I would call critical is the ability to assess and manage risk factors. To know how likely something is to change before banking a whole campaign on it. To know what net result changes may have, and to ensure that all risks are within your remit and ability to make decisions on. However, affiliate SEOs can usually afford the biggest mistakes in risk assessment so long as they are not frequent mistakes, while the SEOs providing services have often included companies that make massive mistakes on this level and simply walk off, even rebranding if the mistake is huge, so it is still the in-house SEO who needs it most.

But risk assessment and management adds more value to all SEOs, no matter which field they are in.
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Old 10-08-2006   #4
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Decisions, decisions

What you're saying makes sense. So really, once you decide what kind of SEO you want to do, then you take a look at the skillset?

It seems to me, talking about risk assessment, that in order to learn where the line is, you have to cross it a few times, particularly when you're dealing with engines (read:Google) that won't tell you EXACTLY where the line is. So really, it would probably be wise to make some affiliate sites and cut my teeth that way, as that is the most likely to show me where the line is.

This could be tough, because it seems a little more black-hat to me, whereas I think I'm more of a white-hat type of SEO. How do I make the leap to the dark side? :P
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Old 10-09-2006   #5
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Excellent point. However, don't forget that seeing where someone else crossed the line is just as effective in showing where that line is as crossing it yourself.

One of the truly challenging things about SEO is that the line keeps on moving. Today's perfectly acceptable technique might later become unacceptable as more is learned of its long-term results. For just one example of this, Google originally proclaimed that PageRank was virtually un-game-able - that spammers couldn't hope to beat it. They tried to live with this belief for a while, but in reality they later had to revise the hype and take steps to discourage link manipulations, link swaps, etc. At first, their belief had made reciprocal links okay because they hadn't realised just how fast and what volume of reciprocal links could be brought to bear by SEOs.

Sooner or later an SEO will cross a line without setting out to do so, simply because the line moved. Unless, that is, the SEO plays very cautious indeed, and has good skills for predicting those changes.

Managing some affiliate sites is certainly a good way to practice and learn SEO. Volunteering some service to worthy causes such as charity websites can also be an excellent way to gain experience in dealing with client issues, and managing sites for others.
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Old 10-09-2006   #6
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Volunteering some service to worthy causes such as charity websites can also be an excellent way to gain experience in dealing with client issues, and managing sites for others.
You know what..actually, I've thought about this, too (yea I think A LOT I know)..I was thinking, if I should be able to become really good at Online Marketing/SEO one day, I could help charity sites that way...would feel better than just donating money (plus you might be able to help them in ways, that you wouldn't really be able to unless you donate your whole income...if a really good SEO works for a company and costs them a couple of hundred thousands a year, their profit usually seems to be in the millions...same could apply to charity websites)...........................if I should ever become good at it
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Old 10-09-2006   #7
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Working for registered Charities is superb experience - because often the people running them, or that you will be expected to liase with, are of a calibre you'd expect to take years to be able to deal with otherwise. Get an invite to one of their fundraising events, or better yet, one of their celebratory events, and the networking is absolutely unbeatable.
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Old 10-09-2006   #8
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I have actually done this a couple of times and it's worked out well. More recently, I designed a website and SEO for a local church. I gave them a 50% discount and had them send me a letter stating this so I could deduct the other 50% from my taxes.

Secondly, after doing projects like this you'll get a lot of referrals. I ended up with 2 more projects from the work I did for the church.

If you're new to the business, it's a good way to get your foot in the door.
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Old 10-09-2006   #9
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I can vouch for working for charities as well. It's a great experience. Many have no money, but some even have enough to pay you a bit, as well. I don't recommend only choosing the ones that can pay you, but sometimes they are very willing to pay what they can, the problem being that they can't pay "industry standard".

For that reason, I have NPO pricing that is basically enough to pay my costs, and that's it. In addition, I donate time to charities that can't even pay that. If they want to pay, let them, since sometimes having that type of legitimate expense can actually help them get more funding, which helps everyone. They will know their own situation, so follow their lead.

Reasons to Work with Charities

1. People who work in charities tend to be leaders and very active in the community, which means they are often very well connected. This can lead to good paying jobs for people helping them out on their favorite cause.

2. Most of the time your work is a tax write off.

3. A reference from a charity can be worth a lot. On a related note, so can a gratitude link from one.

4. You meet some really good people and have the opportunity to have some fun doing what you like to do in a fairly non-stress environment. (Warning, some can be very demanding, just out of desperation. Set clear boundaries or you may find yourself with no time at all to make a living yourself).

5. They are SO grateful!

6. You actually get to do something useful and positive. Sure pushing porn, pills and casinos might make you money, but it's not likely to make the world a better place. Just a little bit of work and help for a charity can make a huge difference in someones life, and even save a few lives.

7. Quite frankly, it makes you a better person - and give you warm fuzzy feelings.

When I was in law school, I was introduced to the idea of pro bono, which means literally "for the good". It's lawyer talk for doing work for free (or at cost) for good causes. Some law firms do a lot of it, and a disturbing amount do none. In the old days most did, but that trend has been decreasing lately.

I noticed that the best law firms, with the happiest people, had formal pro bono policies (usually something like 10-15% of your case load can be devoted to pro bono work).

I also noticed that ambulance-chasing legal sweatshops (oops, did I say that out loud?) never had pro bono policies, since the almighty dollar was their only goal. I decided which group I wanted to be in pretty quickly and promised myself I would set aside 10-15% of my time for pro bono work.

When I decided later to not practice law, I also decided that I would take that promise with me and do pro bono work through SEO. I've never regretted it. I try to set aside 10-15% of my time to charities and organizations.

To date, I've done work for registered charities like the Sleep Apnea Society, the Lung Cancer Society, and a church-run youth camp in Texas, as well as work for organizations that work for others such as the Calgary Business Information Centre (offering free advice to small business owners), SEMPO and the SMA. I've never regretted any of it.

Currently, I'm doing work for a charity that is trying to provide handi-buses, wheelchairs, hydrotherapy and other help to the disabled in India . The lady I'm helping used to be a student in a school run by Mother Theresa and used to help her help others. She is now in a wheelchair herself and wants to help others with disabilities. Since India has a severe shortage of facilities for the handicapped, it seemed like a good cause, so here I am.

It's not hard, and it's really worth it. I recommend it strongly.

Ian
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Last edited by mcanerin : 10-09-2006 at 03:03 PM.
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Old 10-10-2006   #10
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not to be obvious, but...

I glanced at Jazzcat's site to look into his background, and he seems strong on copy writing and marketing. So, I think his question may've been how to approach learning more technical skills.

I'd suggest first learning HTML/DHTML, if you're not already familiar (forgive me for stating the obvious ). DHTML includes CSS and such. Javascript that can come with DHTML is fairly useless to SEO (and especially you should avoid hiding text). You should not at all be intimidated by glancing at the source code of any given webpage.

Second, on tech skills, it's useful to learn about HTTP headers -- what are the initial, hidden messages that servers send for URL requests?

On programming side, SEO is and should be a bit independent of particular application languages. But, it can be helpful to understand how to perform deeper programming. HTML is just a set of display instructions -- it's not really like programming dynamic code. Learning basic programming skills for Perl or PHP or .NET can give some insights and experience that's useful. But, this is all not super-necessary, perhaps. I see lots of SEOs and even more SEMs that have no deeper programming experience.

Learning about RSS and some basics of XML can be useful, because these are some of the glue that's holding the Web 2.0 stuff together.

If you want to learner the really deep workings of search engines, read up on Information Retrieval and the various search engine patents. One great source for this is Dr. Garcia's blog, Mi Islita. Understanding his writings requires pretty good background knowledge, though.
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Old 10-10-2006   #11
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SEO Skills

I do think you need some HTML skills to be able to provide a complete set of services to your clients. But there is a lot of things you can do that involve simply using various software tools to get information you need (such as a keyword tool).

The biggest thing is that you need to have a clear analytical mind (which would make it easy for you to learn HTML anyway - it just takes time).
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Old 10-10-2006   #12
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I was actually going to post nearly the same question to this forum before I read this thread.

Everyone here is basically saying the same, albeit in different ways.

I am starting out in this game with the ultimate goal of being an affiliate SEO and maybe doing some other work here and there in website design if and when I pick it up. The only thing is, that the market is saturated with Web designers and though I never went to school to learn it, I'm totally self taught, I'm at a bit of a loss.

My websites are simple, but in my own humble opinion, elegant. I like white space, I hate flasing banners and I loathe overuse of advertsing. Not a good start for an affiliate SEO, but in my own defence, I know I'm going to have to get over my hate of banners etc. and design my sites around that.

I have tried reading the idiots guide to ASP.NET and XML and a few others, and while I understand some of it, the rest just goes totally over my head.

HTML was easy enough to pick up, although I wouldn't say I'm an expert or anything. I just get by and I can spot small irregularities.

One of my previous sites actually features in the top ten listing in google for it's industry. No, there are more results than 2! However, it's taken 2 years to get there. I want to get to a point where I'm building sites and doing that in 2 months.

Bearing in mind my own personal situation, can anyone suggest another program to try and learn please?

Basically what I want to do is incorporate a database into the back end of the site, to be shown in the front end and construct a 'back end' where you can sign in, type, upload images and update the site online without an editor rather than opening your editor every time you need to update the site.

That's something for the long term obviously!
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Old 10-10-2006   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcanerin
I can vouch for working for charities as well. It's a great experience. Many have no money, but some even have enough to pay you a bit, as well. I don't recommend only choosing the ones that can pay you, but sometimes they are very willing to pay what they can, the problem being that they can't pay "industry standard".

For that reason, I have NPO pricing that is basically enough to pay my costs, and that's it. In addition, I donate time to charities that can't even pay that. If they want to pay, let them, since sometimes having that type of legitimate expense can actually help them get more funding, which helps everyone. They will know their own situation, so follow their lead.

Reasons to Work with Charities

1. People who work in charities tend to be leaders and very active in the community, which means they are often very well connected. This can lead to good paying jobs for people helping them out on their favorite cause.

2. Most of the time your work is a tax write off.

3. A reference from a charity can be worth a lot. On a related note, so can a gratitude link from one.

4. You meet some really good people and have the opportunity to have some fun doing what you like to do in a fairly non-stress environment. (Warning, some can be very demanding, just out of desperation. Set clear boundaries or you may find yourself with no time at all to make a living yourself).

5. They are SO grateful!

6. You actually get to do something useful and positive. Sure pushing porn, pills and casinos might make you money, but it's not likely to make the world a better place. Just a little bit of work and help for a charity can make a huge difference in someones life, and even save a few lives.

7. Quite frankly, it makes you a better person - and give you warm fuzzy feelings.

When I was in law school, I was introduced to the idea of pro bono, which means literally "for the good". It's lawyer talk for doing work for free (or at cost) for good causes. Some law firms do a lot of it, and a disturbing amount do none. In the old days most did, but that trend has been decreasing lately.

I noticed that the best law firms, with the happiest people, had formal pro bono policies (usually something like 10-15% of your case load can be devoted to pro bono work).

I also noticed that ambulance-chasing legal sweatshops (oops, did I say that out loud?) never had pro bono policies, since the almighty dollar was their only goal. I decided which group I wanted to be in pretty quickly and promised myself I would set aside 10-15% of my time for pro bono work.

When I decided later to not practice law, I also decided that I would take that promise with me and do pro bono work through SEO. I've never regretted it. I try to set aside 10-15% of my time to charities and organizations.

To date, I've done work for registered charities like the Sleep Apnea Society, the Lung Cancer Society, and a church-run youth camp in Texas, as well as work for organizations that work for others such as the Calgary Business Information Centre (offering free advice to small business owners), SEMPO and the SMA. I've never regretted any of it.

Currently, I'm doing work for a charity that is trying to provide handi-buses, wheelchairs, hydrotherapy and other help to the disabled in India . The lady I'm helping used to be a student in a school run by Mother Theresa and used to help her help others. She is now in a wheelchair herself and wants to help others with disabilities. Since India has a severe shortage of facilities for the handicapped, it seemed like a good cause, so here I am.

It's not hard, and it's really worth it. I recommend it strongly.

Ian

I think anything that helps people is good for business. Charities, schools, kids, libraries, etc are all good starts.
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Old 10-11-2006   #14
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SEO Skills

I like the idea of pro bono SEO. I'm pretty sure Karma is real, so I'll have to look into that. And I could definitely use the practice. Any thoughts on how to approach a non-profit about doing some SEO work for them?

I've been looking into open-source CMSs as an alternative to hard-coding the site myself (as, obviously, coding is not a real strong point) and came across Joomla. This could be what you're looking for, Matt. I guess my question is, however, how good is Joomla for SEO? I haven't had a chance to really play with it, but does it have the flexibility on the front end to allow me to customize the each page for the target keywords (meta and title tags, mod-rewrite, etc.)? And if so, how much work is it?
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Old 10-13-2006   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewKidOnTheBlock
I've only been reading (sort of obsessively ) about SEO/SEM for one week, but I have to say a week ago, I thought SEO had to do a lot with programming/A.I. algorithms/etc. but I've come to the conclusion (and have been told), that this is probably FAR less important than I thought.

However, I'm still interested whether the top-notch SEOs in this business do without trying to find algorithm loopholes? Are there (many) top-notch SEOs who are on top of this industry without 'deciphering algorithms', just by using King Content + basics (Including having a BASIC understanding of the way search engines work)?
It is important to have experience with programming, to be familiar with it; you don't have to know how to code but you have to understand how meta content, alt-text, javascript and css coding impacts the bots/spiders/crawlers. And believe me, it helps you accomplish things when you can talk to the designers and IT Engineers on their terms. SEO is about site design, navigation, structure as well as keywords, linking strategies, and copy.
Most of the top notch SEO's focus on optimization, not algorithms. Pay attention to the basics and write/design a valuable website, [edited] and remember that search optimization is never finished.

Last edited by Marcia : 10-13-2006 at 01:20 PM. Reason: Removed URL as unnecessary to the discussion.
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Old 10-13-2006   #16
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Quote:
It is important to have experience with programming, to be familiar with it; you don't have to know how to code but you have to understand how meta content, alt-text, javascript and css coding impacts the bots/spiders/crawlers.
I think it's important to differentiate between programming and markup. Javascript is a client-side programming language, but all the rest are related to HTML/CSS which are markup which is not programming.

No, you don't need to have programming experience, but should have a grasp of how they work and what they do. Having a good working knowledge of HTML and CSS is important - especially HTML, since most of the on-page optimization is done within the HTML tags and elements on web pages.

One "technical" skill I consider important for the average person is knowing a bit about Apache servers and using .htaccess and mod_rewrite (and mod_alias). Black hats need a lot more technical knowledge than just that, but that's outside the realm of this discussion.
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Old 10-18-2006   #17
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SEO - What Skills Are Crucial?

SEO - Techniques

Basically Search Engine Optimization (SEO) techniques can be grouped into two major heads. They are, the On-Page factors and the Off-Page factors.
The On-Page factors mainly include the
(a) focused content, because content is the king,
(b) relevant and focused Keywords for the market and the
(c) usability & navigation.
The Off-Page factors mainly include the
(a) Inbound Links, through submissions and external references to our sites,
(b) nature of the market and its current trend and
(c) the progress & efforts from the Competitors.
SEO - What Skills Are Crucial?

Now coming back to the question - What skills are crucial for SEO? Based on the above context the following are the key skills, which are crucial for SEO.

(1) Technical Knowledge: More than the web development knowledge, the knowledge of one's own market and the major competitors are the key. Once a person is very good in this, then, the identification of the core keywords to focus is a cakewalk.

(2) Public Relationship: In order to create both quality and a good number of IBL (inbound links), the Public Relations skill is very important. One has to know the various related forums and submission site and slowly build relationship and goodwill from its users.

(3) Empathetic: To the usability and the navigation of the site, one has to be empathetic i.e., thinking from user's point of view.

(4) Consistency and Persistency: This is the most important of all the skills. SEO is not a sprint race, but a Marathon i.e., a continual on going process. So one has to do all the above both consistently and persistently. No matter how good a person is with respect to the above skills, but not being consistent and persistent, the whole thing goes for a toss.

D Sarathy

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Old 10-18-2006   #18
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Good post, dsarathy!

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Old 10-18-2006   #19
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Crucial SEO Skills - Know Your Stuff

In my experience, one of the most critical skills to have is to know your stuff - so you can manage expectations. So many people either have no idea or think they know something. They are 99% of the time completely clueless.

This really applies to if you are doing SEO for others.
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Old 10-19-2006   #20
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Thanks

Ian, Thanks for the compliments :~).

D Sarathy.
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