Search Engine Watch
SEO News

Go Back   Search Engine Watch Forums > Search Engines & Directories > Google > Google Web Search
FAQ Members List Calendar Forum Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 04-05-2006   #1
raj
Newbie
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 3
raj is on a distinguished road
Home Page PR Is Less Than PageRank On Internal Pages

Hello Friends

I am quite amazed at various techniques of Search Engine Algorithms. Yesterday I observed a strange phenomenon.

The website www.seohawk.com has a PR of 3 whereas all deep links have PR 4-5. I am quote amazed at this phenomenon. If anyone knows whats up with the PR in this case do let me know

regards
raj
raj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2006   #2
Marcia
 
Marcia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 5,476
Marcia has a reputation beyond reputeMarcia has a reputation beyond reputeMarcia has a reputation beyond reputeMarcia has a reputation beyond reputeMarcia has a reputation beyond reputeMarcia has a reputation beyond reputeMarcia has a reputation beyond reputeMarcia has a reputation beyond reputeMarcia has a reputation beyond reputeMarcia has a reputation beyond reputeMarcia has a reputation beyond repute
This seems to be a very common phenomenon lately, with a lot of people reporting that they're seeing the same thing with their sites.
Marcia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2006   #3
raj
Newbie
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 3
raj is on a distinguished road
mysterious PR

Hello

thanks for that. Meanwhile there is something spooky about PR phenomenon.

thanks
raj
raj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2006   #4
dannysullivan
Editor, SearchEngineLand.com (Info, Great Columns & Daily Recap Of Search News!)
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Search Engine Land
Posts: 2,085
dannysullivan has much to be proud ofdannysullivan has much to be proud ofdannysullivan has much to be proud ofdannysullivan has much to be proud ofdannysullivan has much to be proud ofdannysullivan has much to be proud ofdannysullivan has much to be proud ofdannysullivan has much to be proud of
This is very interesting. I think you're likely seeing Google downgrade the PR the home page is getting yet still allowing the "real" or unpenalized PR score to flow to your internal pages.

Consider:

http://www.seohawk.com/ = PR3
http://www.seohawk.com/about_us.asp = PR5
http://www.seohawk.com/seo_portfolio.asp = PR0
http://www.seohawk.com/seo_services.asp = PR4
http://www.seohawk.com/expert_seo_articles.asp = PR5
http://www.seohawk.com/seo_tools.asp = PR0
http://www.seohawk.com/contact_us.asp = PR0

Those are all of your main pages, from your home down then working down to pages listed in your right-hand navigation.

It's not impossible for a home page to have less PR than an internal page. After all, if you have a really popular internal page, more people may link to it, and that would help drive the PR up.

But are you getting more links to those internal pages? Let's see via Google, compared to your home page:

Home Page
http://www.google.com/search?q=link%3Aseohawk.com = 22 links

About Page
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&l...about_us.a sp = 0 links

OK, that's odd. Google doesn't report all the links it knows about. But certainly it doesn't seem like your internal page has more links pointing at it.

Let's try another search engine. Yahoo using Site Explorer, http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/, tells me you have 384 inlinks to the home page versus 14 for your about page. And those about page links are solely coming from your own site.

Let's try one more, MSN. It tells me you have 1,187 links to the home page but only two to the about page, and those two are your internal links.

So that's odd. From what I can tell, pretty much whatever PR score your About Page has is generated internally -- and it really ought to be less than your home page.

The other factor could be another internal page might be driving up your About Page. I checked your other PR5 page. That does have a few external links pointing at it. But it still doesn't feel like that's the reason.

That's why I come back to thinking that Google is slapping a penalty or devaluing your PR a bit for the home page. I especially get that impression after I see some of the links pointing at you.

You've got a guest book links here:
http://www.jessejonesjr.com/bbsboard.html
http://www.petey.com/chat/301.html
http://members.aol.com/tellwynd2/myguests.html
http://web.vamp.org/comments.html (is gothic stuff really your favorite subject?)

There are more examples of these. Meanwhile, you've got a pretty spammy link page over here, http://scifipulse.scifiwebs.com/aspB...ail.asp?Id=184 (a single link related to SEO might have been enough, but so many variations?), while over at the Firefigher's Quarterly, where there's a guest book full of people commenting on 9/11 firefighters, you seem to have cruised in to drop a link several times. You have to go to the source code of the page to find it, but let me help you out...

Nice to see a website dedicated for a noble cause ..... Keep it up.. Nice job
--then you do an overflow style that hides the links. If I turn styles off, I can then see:

Search Engine Optimization Services

Search engine optimization

Search engine optimization company

Search engine optimization service

Search engine optimization firm

We provide Seo Services to its customers worldwide. Please visit our site.
We provide Offshore seo services to our customers .
affordable Search Engine Optimization

Search Engine Optimization specialist

Search Engine Optimization Expert

Web Site Search Engine Optimization

Search Engine Optimization Seo

Seo Services

Nice. Frankly, I wouldn't gripe that your home page is ranking less than your internal pages. I'd be grateful that your entire site hasn't been wiped out at all.
dannysullivan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2006   #5
g7submit
SEM Pro
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: London
Posts: 61
g7submit is a jewel in the roughg7submit is a jewel in the roughg7submit is a jewel in the roughg7submit is a jewel in the rough
No better analysis than Danny's, Raj!

Danny, you're still the master in site analysis, while some may be too proud to acknowledge this, I learnt many of my stuff from you and still do, .

Raj, while it's not a bad idea to add comments and drop ONE link for yourself in the process, but adding spammy links such as the oneS in that last URL Danny revealed is inviting penalties sooner or later.

The dilema you're faced with now, if you want my honest opinion, is "How can you redeem yourself?" It may not be easy, but it's possible. Humbly write to the webmaster of that site, apologizing for your "mistake" and request that he remove all the spammy links and save one (your favorite). Then, retrace your steps for other "SE sins", and clean up. I feel that you will soon see the Google robots smiling at your homepage like the early morning sunshine on your window, . Goodluck!
g7submit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2006   #6
jdevalk
Joost de Valk
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Holland
Posts: 20
jdevalk is on a distinguished road
Seeing the same happen

consider:

http://www.joostdevalk.nl - PR 2
http://www.joostdevalk.nl/about_me.html - PR 5

this is puzzling me
jdevalk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2006   #7
scrubs
UK
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 169
scrubs is on a distinguished road
Good post and analysis Danny! very interesting.

Would it be sensible to say that a PR of a homepage is not a true represntation of a visitor will see as they enter a site? My reason for saying that is if a visitor comes through the homepage how would they know there is valuable content a couple of steps away with a higher PR?

This maybe an area the toolbar could be developed to let people know what is just a couple of clicks away?
scrubs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2006   #8
dannysullivan
Editor, SearchEngineLand.com (Info, Great Columns & Daily Recap Of Search News!)
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Search Engine Land
Posts: 2,085
dannysullivan has much to be proud ofdannysullivan has much to be proud ofdannysullivan has much to be proud ofdannysullivan has much to be proud ofdannysullivan has much to be proud ofdannysullivan has much to be proud ofdannysullivan has much to be proud ofdannysullivan has much to be proud of
I honestly don't think the typical user pays attention to the PR meter, if they even switch it on. I think when they come to your home page, they look at the home page itself to decide if they should go further. But the idea is interesting. Google could potentially make the toolbar highlight links that lead to content within the site they consider really important. That would freak site owners out though, I think
dannysullivan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2006   #9
FeldBum
Frog Boy
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: New York City & Jerusalem
Posts: 53
FeldBum will become famous soon enoughFeldBum will become famous soon enough
I've got the same thing on a client site, but I think some of it might be due to direct links into sub pages:

http://www.mapaubingo.com - PR3
http://www.mapaubingo.com/links/index.asp - PR4
http://www.mapaubingo.com/deposit-and-win.asp - PR4
http://www.mapaubingo.com/buzzwords.asp - PR4
http://www.mapaubingo.com/buzzword-b...anksgiving.asp - PR5

And every page does link back to the main page...
FeldBum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2006   #10
scrubs
UK
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 169
scrubs is on a distinguished road
Yes it would be the refferals coming into that particular page. The inbound links registered (and the quality of them) to those sub level pages and page content your site are giving it more strength then the homepage.
scrubs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2006   #11
gabs
Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: London uk
Posts: 69
gabs is on a distinguished road
Seeing so many sites like above..

This is one crazy pr update imho..

Seeing some site with single pr5 3pages deep and pr1 on the homepage.. Makes no sense ..

Ah well time to ignore pr values from this update..
gabs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2006   #12
scrubs
UK
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 169
scrubs is on a distinguished road
I don't believe this is down to a single update (i haven't seen changes to mine, yet! ), I just think it is the indexing of website content evolving continuesly. Google is finding far more relevant content past the homepage and allocating it this way in its results, I believe you will see this happening more and more.
scrubs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2006   #13
gabs
Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: London uk
Posts: 69
gabs is on a distinguished road
hmm...

I'm seeing the likes of:
homepage pr3
>> forum index pr2
>> forum pr1
>> topic pr4

So it would seem is based on the content in respect to the above but on other site its not working like that and high content pages are show a lower pr with the same linkage e.g. a hp with a 4 and internal with far less content with a pr5..

hmm..
gabs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2006   #14
bhartzer
Search Engine Optimization, Search Engine Marketing Expert
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Dallas, Texas
Posts: 534
bhartzer has a spectacular aura aboutbhartzer has a spectacular aura aboutbhartzer has a spectacular aura about
Quote:
That's why I come back to thinking that Google is slapping a penalty or devaluing your PR a bit for the home page. I especially get that impression after I see some of the links pointing at you.
Quote:
Raj, while it's not a bad idea to add comments and drop ONE link for yourself in the process, but adding spammy links such as the oneS in that last URL Danny revealed is inviting penalties sooner or later.
Whoa! Hold on a second. Danny and g7submit, are you both now saying that spammy links from guestbooks and other off-site links can now hurt your site? Perhaps if I made a bunch of spammy posts about my competitor's site I could hurt them?

I'm actually seeing the same PR differences, as I'm seeing a PR2 on a home page and PR4s on internal pages that don't have links except from other internal pages. Frankly, I just think the PR is broken right now--or it could be some sort of topic-sensitive PR being implemented????
__________________
Bill Hartzer is an SEO expert based in Dallas and has been practicing organic SEO since 1996. See BillHartzer.com.
bhartzer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2006   #15
FeldBum
Frog Boy
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: New York City & Jerusalem
Posts: 53
FeldBum will become famous soon enoughFeldBum will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by bhartzer
Whoa! Hold on a second. Danny and g7submit, are you both now saying that spammy links from guestbooks and other off-site links can now hurt your site? Perhaps if I made a bunch of spammy posts about my competitor's site I could hurt them??
See: GoogleBowling
FeldBum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2006   #16
scrubs
UK
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 169
scrubs is on a distinguished road
How do you prove GoogleBowling is happening? The site may have signed up for a spammy link package themselves and not realise the consequences perhaps?
scrubs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2006   #17
bhartzer
Search Engine Optimization, Search Engine Marketing Expert
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Dallas, Texas
Posts: 534
bhartzer has a spectacular aura aboutbhartzer has a spectacular aura aboutbhartzer has a spectacular aura about
Quote:
See: GoogleBowling
Sorry, I don't believe it. I don't believe that you can go out hurt competitors' rankings by linking to them. I think those links will be de-valued or discounted--or ignored. If that were the case all sorts of people would be out there signing guestbooks and blogs with their competitors' links.
__________________
Bill Hartzer is an SEO expert based in Dallas and has been practicing organic SEO since 1996. See BillHartzer.com.
bhartzer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2006   #18
Carlos Chacón
Member
 
Carlos Chacón's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: San José, Costa Rica
Posts: 290
Carlos Chacón is on a distinguished road
Something has changed in the way Google ranks sites...
But I’m agreeing with the last two comments; I don’t believe link pages on the home page hurt rankings (except link farms).
Carlos Chacón is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2006   #19
Relevancy
Relevancy Brings Results
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: CA
Posts: 225
Relevancy is on a distinguished road
age factor

I think the age of a domain/page is playing a factor in PR for sure. The home page having less PR might be some sort of new filtering and evaluation. Google knowing that most paid and solicited links go the home page, so they might be delaying the power of these back links to make sure they are real. Therefore the PR on the home page will take longer to grow. Internal page PR grows as the pages age, but the home page is evelauted for true link growth.

It is not that you can hurt your comp by getting bad links to the home page, it is more that link evaluation slows the home page PR growth.
Relevancy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2006   #20
dannysullivan
Editor, SearchEngineLand.com (Info, Great Columns & Daily Recap Of Search News!)
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Search Engine Land
Posts: 2,085
dannysullivan has much to be proud ofdannysullivan has much to be proud ofdannysullivan has much to be proud ofdannysullivan has much to be proud ofdannysullivan has much to be proud ofdannysullivan has much to be proud ofdannysullivan has much to be proud ofdannysullivan has much to be proud of
Quote:
Danny and g7submit, are you both now saying that spammy links from guestbooks and other off-site links can now hurt your site? Perhaps if I made a bunch of spammy posts about my competitor's site I could hurt them?
Yeah, I thought that would open a can of worms.

I don't know. Google has long said that people linking to you shouldn't hurt you. But then again, it says don't participate in link farms -- which implies that if they caught you involved with one, that could hurt you. Which further implies that if someone signed their competitor up, that could hurt you.

My feeling has been mainly that good sites will escape such a thing, if it really did happen, because it wouldn't be normal. Say you believe in "googlebowling" and tried to do it to SEW, for example. Well we've got hundred of quality link pointing at us, good historic links. I feel like that's going to outweigh any sabotage attempt. But a small site with no link normality. Perhaps.

But I don't know that this is the case of what's happening with the first site. Let's say that it is, however. It's still a PR3. It's not "hurt" in the sense of being banned if it should be a PR5 but Google decides to downgrade the score because a lot of the links seems to come from guest books. Heck, many people don't really think guest book links count for anything anyway. Plus we've got plenty of hints that the same link used throughout a site might get treated differently, say counted as if it were only one link. Lots of those ideas make perfect sense to do.

I especially don't know if that's the case with the first site given we've got a number of other examples now of people saying this is happening to them. Again, it was never the case that your home page always had more PR than internal page. But that's common. It may be that part of this new update has scoring changes that are impacting that. As a result, perhaps we'll start seeing more internal pages ranking well for thing, as the anchor text is also considered.
dannysullivan is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off