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Old 01-19-2006   #1
dannysullivan
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Bush Administration Demands Search Records

The Bush administration demanded last year that Google and other search engines turn over aggregate search information to help revive a child protection law. Google has refused to comply with the subpoena. Other search engines apparently have.

In particular, the Bush administration wanted one million random web addresses and records of all Google searches for a one week period. The government apparently wants to find out how much pornography shows up in online searches and how often people may seek it.

There are more details in my post, Bush Administration Demands Search Data; Google Says No, Others Comply and the San Jose Mercury News article that broke the story, Feds want Google search records .

Thoughts, worries, comments?

Also, I have a separate A Search Privacy Bill Of Rights thread for those who'd like to talk more about specific protection that should be promised by search companies.

Last edited by dannysullivan : 01-19-2006 at 06:14 AM.
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Old 01-19-2006   #2
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Smile

This is not a surprise Danny, I think it is just a test by the administration though, what they are really trying to do is open the door to control the search engines and make it easy to get other data that they really want!

These are the same people that exposed their own CIA agent when her husband Joe Wilson told the world what a bunch of liars they were about the WMD propaganda used to invade Iraq.

So these guys will do anything, look they are being investigated and a lawsuit has been filed by the lawyers representing "so called terrorists" because the NSA was spying on their email and phone calls!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...501366_pf.html

Last edited by AnthonyCea : 01-19-2006 at 10:13 AM.
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Old 01-19-2006   #3
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Exclamation

Looks like Danny is on to a big issue, Forbes magazine has picked it up too!

http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2006/...partner=alerts

This ties into the spying on Americans that is in the news right now!!

Americans need to watch and expose the Bush administration and their tactics!
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Old 01-19-2006   #4
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in another thread we are currently debating the appropriatness, and value of search engine regulation. Despite my arguments in the other thread, I have to admit, that protection of children is certainly a valid arguement for regulation. Well, in a sense.

Regulation is really not the right word, as all they are really asking for is information they can use to protect children.

Do they have a legal right to it? Don't know the laws well enough, but I doubt they do. Which means, that laws would need to be changed. I think (enphasis on think) that Google is within their rights to refuse for the time being.

On the flip side, I think that while they are within their rights, this is probably one thing that they should comply with. Anything we can do to protect children from the scum that gets put on sites, and protect them from the scum who use children on sites, is a positive thing. I would support a change of laws in the case, (if it is needed) to force G to comply.

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what they are really trying to do is open the door to control the search engines and make it easy to get other data that they really want!
What is it, exactly, that you think they "really want"?
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Old 01-19-2006   #5
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This ties into the spying on Americans that is in the news right now!!

Americans need to watch and expose the Bush administration and their tactics!
I have not seen any spying on American's stories in the news. Only stories about spying on known terrorists, but I digress.

So, your argument is that the Bush Admin has no interest in protecting children, they are lying, so that they can ultimatly gain total control over the search engines, in a well laid strategy to do something even darker?
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Old 01-19-2006   #6
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Originally Posted by vayapues
in another thread we are currently debating the appropriatness, and value of search engine regulation. Despite my arguments in the other thread, I have to admit, that protection of children is certainly a valid arguement for regulation. Well, in a sense.

Regulation is really not the right word, as all they are really asking for is information they can use to protect children.

Do they have a legal right to it? Don't know the laws well enough, but I doubt they do. Which means, that laws would need to be changed. I think (enphasis on think) that Google is within their rights to refuse for the time being.

On the flip side, I think that while they are within their rights, this is probably one thing that they should comply with. Anything we can do to protect children from the scum that gets put on sites, and protect them from the scum who use children on sites, is a positive thing. I would support a change of laws in the case, (if it is needed) to force G to comply.



What is it, exactly, that you think they "really want"?
What they really want is to dictate what results people see on Google!

Cut and paste this into your favorite search engine!

Nixon Nazi

If they can get federal agents inside of Google and control freedom within the search index as far as what pages they can show, then we are doomed and the government can censor what we are allowed to see!

That's what they really want, the Bush administration is famous for hiding information and Google and Yahoo are the enemy of this strategy!

Did Cheney ever release the secret "Energy Task force" data, no!

Why do they hate free flow of information?

Because they have a lot to hide going back to Nixon and hate freedom of the press and freedom of information!

Rumsfeld and Cheney both served and got their start under Nixon and hate any freedoms that Americans have to expose fraud in the White House, this is "what they are after".

This is not a war on porno, this is not a war on terror, it is a war on the rights of Americans to watch Bush and Cheney and Google is the enemy of this administration!

We should all support Google here and write our lawmakers demanding an investigation of the Bush administration!

Last edited by AnthonyCea : 01-19-2006 at 10:45 AM.
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Old 01-19-2006   #7
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This post was not appropriate, so I am editing it. Too emotionally charged. Sorry about that.

Last edited by vayapues : 01-19-2006 at 11:30 AM.
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Old 01-19-2006   #8
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Moving to the padded room. Edited, because it is getting way off topic.

Last edited by vayapues : 01-19-2006 at 11:33 AM.
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Old 01-19-2006   #9
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Hello everyone before we start bashing republicans and democrats in here lets keep this on keel and discuss the specific matter at hand.

In my opinion the US Govt has a right to this information, but that it is presented to them by research performed by Google or the specific search engines themselves, who would "promise" to get it right, and be paid for the information just as any other government contractor. I feel that people who search for child porn (***added*** and the number of porn results that show up for seemingly innocuous searches) should be counted as a percentage of the whole, but that the sample number should be closer to 50-100 million searches or more. If this can help create more protection for my child and others, I am 100% for it. But I am worried as Danny states in his blog that this could lead to more data being asked for as well as more data being mined from the sample than just child porn behavior.

Last edited by Chris Boggs : 01-20-2006 at 11:18 AM. Reason: clarify
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Old 01-19-2006   #10
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Originally Posted by vayapues
Uh huh, You know what else I heard. The Rockafellers and Free Masons are trying to coop search engines in partnership with the United Nations, in an effort to make it so that we only find positive stuff about the new world order. That way, they can ultimatly bring down the USA government, and impose International law.

Just look up New World Order in your favorite search engine.


See, there is one from the right that is just as extreme, and just as unlikely. Ah, but it does show up in the searches, and there are a lot of folks who feel strongly about it.
So you have not heard about the problem with Bush spying on Americans?

I guess you need to watch the news a bit more!

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q... oogle+Search

This issue has a lot to do with our freedoms and Google is defending US and WE should get behind GOOGLE RIGHT NOW on this major issue!
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Old 01-19-2006   #11
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Anthony,

I will respond, but not in this thread. Lets talk in the padded room. I will post a thread in there. It is not fair to do it here, cause we are draggin this discussion off course for everyone else.

ok, I take it back. I just read the guidlines for the padded room. Sorry mate political discussions not allowed.

Last edited by vayapues : 01-19-2006 at 11:35 AM.
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Old 01-19-2006   #12
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You just went and ruined the thread by censorship, I am not interested in your debate, we are on topic, I refuse to let you ruin the subject matter!

Your posts were fine, so if you wish to ruin the thread that is your business!
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Old 01-19-2006   #13
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What's the big deal

I am surprised now that this is happening in the States, it has become big news.

So far Google, Yahoo and MS have all provided data to the government in China (and perhaps elsewhere) and that was just business as usual (for the three of them, at least - we know one person ended up in jail but hey, it wasn't our ass).

Why not continue being pragmatic and say "Who cares, let them get all the queries mapped to IP addresses - I'm not a pedophile"?
Or is it "It's okay in X, they aren't used to democracy, but here in Y we need privacy and protection because ..."?

We don't want our dot-com portfolio to crash, we aren't too concerned about the rights of others, but we don't like when bad things we condone return to hunt us. You can't have it all. What goes around, comes around.

Happy searching!
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Old 01-19-2006   #14
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I am surprised now that this is happening in the States, it has become big news.
I don't think it is so much that it is happening in the states as it is, that it is Bush Vs. Google.

Anything Bush does makes news, and anything Google does makes news. The two together, and well, you get a lot of coverage.
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Old 01-19-2006   #15
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In my opinion, Google did the right thing!

The other SE's that caved in to these draconian demands should be ashamed of and in the process of firing their management...

Hmmm... the same guy that says he never heard of Bush/NSA spying scandal, talks about Fox News and free flowing information (very hard to put those two vastly different things in the same sentence, 'fox news' and 'free flowing information')... Well if he is watching Fox News that explains why he is not 'up' on the current news events.

In case you haven't figured it out, fox news is more one sided in it news coverage than Al Jazeera.

(BTW - Al Jazzera took its programming format directly from fox news... Same format different message)
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Old 01-19-2006   #16
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I am curious how one stops pedifilia online? If not this way, then how?

Perhaps if a better solution could be thunk up (Bushisim) then we could all be happy. Unless someone comes up with a better idea though, this is what we are stuck with.

Unless you don't think pedifilia is worth fighting.
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Old 01-19-2006   #17
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Better idea... how about parents watch and supervise what their kids do online.

Why is it that lazy parents always want everyone to raise their kids for them?
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Old 01-19-2006   #18
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In case you haven't figured it out, fox news is more one sided in it news coverage than Al Jazeera.
You will get absolutly no arguement from me there. That is really the point isn't it? Fox News is bias, and as a result of free flow of information, they have a microphone to say whatever they want.

This is my point when I say that "no one has benefited more from the free flow of information then the republican party."

I am not arguing that FoxNews is a freeflow of information. Rather that they are a bias one-sided part of that free flow, which has by in large benefited the conservative movement.

here is a simple test. Google the word Democrat. You get around 36 million results. Now google Republican. You get 75 million results. Clearly whether good or bad, right or wrong, freeflow of information is more beneficial to the republican party.
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Old 01-19-2006   #19
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Better idea... how about parents watch and supervise what their kids do online.

Why is it that lazy parents always want everyone to raise their kids for them?
Amen!! Many of these problems would be completly eliminated if parents kept the computer out of bedrooms, and only let their kids surf when they can watch them.

Of course, this would not solve the accidental whitehouse.com kinda thing, but it would solve a lot.

We still don't address actually capturing and punishing pedifiliers though. I don't think they are after search results of children who are viewing Porn, they are looking for pedifielers who are searching for children porn, or children victims.

Better parenting, while being the most critical element, does not do anything towards the real issue of catching the criminals.
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Old 01-19-2006   #20
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here is a simple test
Your test means nothing.

Words - the words "Democrat" and "Republican" appear on both political parties websites, not to mention the 'other' political parties websites... they even appear here...
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