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Old 12-12-2005   #1
DaveN
 
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Getting Out Of Google Sandbox Using Subdomain & Redirection



ok in Chicago in the Organic panel I spoke about the sandbox and dupe content..

on the sandbox... try this .

so you have a site loads of content, yet you know deep down that you should be ranking but you're not .. ( I can't confirm or deny that this is the sandbox ), you have good links and a good site structure.. but still you don't rank ( I can't confirm or deny that this is the sandbox )

You rank in Yahoo and Msn .. but no where in Google ( I can't confirm or deny that this is the sandbox ) ..

ok get an old domain, something which google crawls, then put a subdomain on it ... newsite.olddomain.com original and copy the site exactly on the sub as it is in the orginal date last modifed to a few months after the domain was first registered ... yer i know that makes all the content look really really old ... lol

Ok add a Link from the real site something like www .newsite.com ( forget about seo anchor text links, these are just to let google in.. now 301 the subdomain to the new site ..

postscript :

Ok add a Link from the real site something like www .newsite.com ( forget about seo anchor text links, these are just to let google in.. now 301 the subdomain to the new site .. <--- this didn't make sense

Add a link from the www. oldsite.com to the newsite.oldsite.com forget about seo anchor text links, these are just to let google in.. now 301 the subdomain to the new site .... chicago brain freeze still going on lol




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Last edited by DaveN : 12-12-2005 at 10:05 AM.
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Old 12-12-2005   #2
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Dave.

When you give out a public nugget you definately made sure it is pure, 24ct gold!

Last edited by dannysullivan : 12-12-2005 at 10:02 AM.
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Old 12-12-2005   #3
Jill Whalen
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Ok add a Link from the real site something like www .newsite.com ( forget about seo anchor text links, these are just to let google in.. now 301 the subdomain to the new site ..
Dave, if that works, then why wouldn't a 301 from an old domain to a new domain with the same content also work? (It hasn't seemed to in the past.)
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Old 12-12-2005   #4
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and copy the site exactly on the sub as it is in the orginal date last modifed to a few months after the domain was first registered
Can someone explain this part more clearly, I am not sure what is being said here.

The part I am having particular trouble understanding is:
Quote:
as it is in the orginal date last modifed to a few months after the domain was first registered
Thanks.
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Old 12-12-2005   #5
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Let's look at the following as an example of Dave's advice.

I launch a new site at www.RedWidget.dom

It's all about (obviously) Red Widgets and Y and M think it is a great site and rank it well as we have undertaken some SEO (on and off page), it provides the greatest content out there and DESERVES to be there at #1

Unfortunately as the Red Widget domain is newly registered and it is NOT a CC TLD (another lil clue there people) it doesn't rank for diddley squat on the mighty Google, other than maybe some obscure image searches.

Thankfully I have a few well established, old sites and domains out there. I choice to pick one, that is on theme (no harm in using on theme IMHO) and is called www.RedAndYellowWidgets.com. I decide to replicate the content from redwidgets.dom to either (and this is where I add to Dave's work above) a subdomain on the old domain

http://redwidgets.redandyellowwidgets.dom

or a subdirectory on the old domain

http://redandyellowwidgets.dom/redwidgets/

It just so happens that instead of leaving the defacto standard header information within the pages, I adapt the date that my web server *thinks* the pages were created and backdate it by, I don't know, let's try a year or two.

I place a link from a well crawled page (maybe the homepage?) on my site (or maybe links from other sites, maybe bought links, maybe a site map submission or even just some prolific toolbar usage) just so that it gets noticed by a certain search engine spider. Once that is done I wait.

I wait and wait and wait (probably just a few days) until the site has been spidered properly (I'd suggest MozBot, but you may think differently) and then I would 301 every page on the OLD site to the NEW site.

Hopefully you'll see your rankings increase on G to match those on M and Y!

CAVEAT - Your experiences may be different from mine and this advice is worth what I got paid for it! Bugger All
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Old 12-12-2005   #6
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Dave,

Does this assume that if you've purchased a domain (and not pulled an existing one from your quiver as Jason suggests), part of the deal is that you DON'T change the registrar info?

Also, I second Jill's question.

All said, if this truly works, I suspect we all have about another 30 minutes to implement it in before the wormhole closes.
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Old 12-12-2005   #7
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Thanks Jason, the example makes things clear.
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Old 12-12-2005   #8
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DON'T change the registrar info
I wouldn't, but I am a naughty hat wearing person!
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Old 12-12-2005   #9
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Sub-Domain

Hello mate...

...I was at SES too - And I distincly remember one of the guys stating 'Google Hates Subdomains'...and Mike Grehan, said '...the sandbox doesn't exist...'.

Make of that what you will.
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Old 12-12-2005   #10
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Mike Grehan, said '...the sandbox doesn't exist...'. ... Nope that was me ... we where on the same panel ...
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Old 12-12-2005   #11
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301 the sub-domain to the new site? Wounldn't a 302 be better? I guess this follows along with Jills question.
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Old 12-12-2005   #12
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Dupe content

Suggest a dissalow or cloaking for Y!/MSN (as we know how good they follow r.txt at times) to not let THEM see the content on the subdomain/directory in order to avoid jeopardizing rankings on those engines?
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Old 12-12-2005   #13
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It just so happens that instead of leaving the defacto standard header information within the pages, I adapt the date that my web server *thinks* the pages were created and backdate it by, I don't know, let's try a year or two.
And this is accomplished...how? Is this some sort of setting at the webserver level? Or some kind of web page header code? I'm usually pretty technically savvy, but I'm lost on this one.
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Old 12-13-2005   #14
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PHP : move date back 1 year

$gmt_mtime = gmdate('D, d M Y H:i:s', time()-(86400*365)) . ' GMT';
header("Last-Modified: " . $gmt_mtime);



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Old 12-13-2005   #15
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Tnx for info! Is it neccessary for old site to be out of sandbox? I've got some old sites (about 1-2 y.o.) but all of them are in sandbox. Will the trick work in this case?

(sorry for my english)
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Old 12-13-2005   #16
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Tnx for info! Is it neccessary for old site to be out of sandbox? I've got some old sites (about 1-2 y.o.) but all of them are in sandbox
If you don't have a site out of the sandbox to play with I suggest you acquire use of one through whatever means you have to!
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Old 12-13-2005   #17
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Ok

At SES, someone, perhaps you Dave, said BAN google in the Robots.txt, then upload some content, change Last-Modified to a year ago, then allow Google.

Couldn't this process potentially take months?
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Old 12-13-2005   #18
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Very interesting post.

Any idea how long the 301 needs to be in place for? For all time or just until the site begins to rank?
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Old 12-13-2005   #19
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Of course people are welcome to experiment, but I don't think this will do what you're wanting it to do..
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Old 12-14-2005   #20
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OK, I bought a domain in July and left it parked, and a month or so later put an index page on hosting and set the nameservers at the registrar. Within a couple of hours of the page being uploaded, along came Googlebot and the domain was in the index the very next day. Not URL_only, full title and description - not one single, solitary link to it, not until the very end of November. They obviously knew about that domain before it ever went on hosting.

Then, there was even a same day cache date on the two pages that linked to it end of November (the 26th & 28th) for the exact days when the links went on the pages, with updated cache for the new site's index page - so they've even caught it right when those links went up.

Now, I happen to have an older site right on the topic that's now "out of the sandbox" - or *rather*, Jagger seems to have loosened up some filters that were keeping it from ranking, and Google's now been the biggest referrer for the holidays.

Maybe I'm naive or ignorant, but whatever I'd do from that older domain to the new one, I can't understand how it could do anything with regard to age, since Google obviously has the historical information on that domain right in Aunt Mae's Bucket File from the moment of its conception through it's birth on hosting with an actual page, and even real-time for each of the 2 links put up.

It kind of seems like if I color my hair real nice and get fancy new makeup, I can get taken for being my daughter's sister instead of her mother. Well maybe, but how would that change the official birth records that are on file?

I must be missing something.

Last edited by Marcia : 12-14-2005 at 02:59 AM.
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