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Old 11-04-2005   #1
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AdWords In UK Sucks -- Massive Duplicate Ads Get Through

yep i have lost all trust in Adwords, the uk local search is in bits thanks to Google and Thomson ... well done guys !!

search builder ripon

image for non UK people

http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=58963762&size=o
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Old 11-04-2005   #2
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....and swallows

What a blatant breach of the Editorial guidelines. At least once eBay gets wind of it and gets in on the local tradesman bidding action - it'll be a real auction.....

Quote:
We do not typically permit advertisers to manage multiple accounts featuring the same business or keywords. When we find that an account is not in compliance with our double-serving policy, we will prevent multiple ads from appearing on the same query.

..........Advertisers seeking an exception to Google's double-serving policy must contact AdWords Support. We take the following into account when reviewing requests:

The destination site for each ad offers different products or services (for example, a large manufacturer with two product sites, one solely for stereos and one solely for computers, both running on keyword 'electronics').
Each destination site has a different layout and design, and each URL and domain is different.
https://adwords.google.com/support/b...79&ctx=sibling
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Old 11-07-2005   #3
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"Do no evil" except let big companies bump up the cost of local PPC advertising for small businesses. Then allow them to re-sell local PPC advertising to small businesses.

ThomsonMafia are the UK's authorised AdWords reseller.

I love this USP from their sales spiel:

Quote:
Google ranks number one in consumer loyalty amongst all brands.

- (Source: Brands Keys, October 2002).
Is Google still the number 1 brand in the world (or possibly in the UK)? Was it ever? Possibly close, but I'd suspect M$ are more widely recognised (and there are probably a load more home-consumer orientated brands that have wider scope - Sony for example). But I digress.

They sell traffic for a set fee from an undefined mix of their "partner" network (200 clicks = £100 and so on). I've got to say, I wouldn't be entirely happy to pay for traffic on the back of the Google brand just to get it from some random ISP homepage.

What it pretty much means is that they will be powering various directories, etc and then topping up advertiser traffic levels with AdWords where they need to so they can sell traffic packages to small businesses.

Would be interesting to find out more about the overall quality of traffic they're sending.

MG
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Old 11-07-2005   #4
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AdWords really sucks...and not just in UK.
I'm on the spanish market and I'm seeing gambling sites anouncing in AdWords for ages, the same ones, and I'm not talking about the ones which come out only by night, I'm talking about sites which can be seen right now with an english description in Google France, Google Spain, Google.com, etc...except Google Germany.
The sites I'm talking about are online casinos or they offer to download a casino software when they don't advertise for online casinos with flashy banners (just in case a Google Rep answers they didn't saw them) on their homepage.
I'm pretty sad with Google Reps rethoric on the forums about those issues, reminds me GoogleGuy about cannonical URLs and 302 hijacking.
I've written 4 e-mails for the last 2 weeks to Google's staff in Madrid and I have no answer, they just ignore my e-mails, so I've written through the AdWords formular...same result.
I've written to the same people which were carrying my account when I was a client and they were answering pretty fast at that time.
The only country which seems to respect the guidelines is Germany....there's not even one ad on "casino" in Google.de when it's so full of online casinos and other online gambling sites on the other countries.
Sorry if I'm off topic but I'm so disapointed with AdWords that I've jumped in.
Feel free to moderate.
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Old 11-10-2005   #5
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Turulillo - Not sure what you mean it's illegal in germany to promote online casinos has it's legal to promote viagra in the uk... I don't have a problem if people use adwords to advertise a product, but the rules are one ad one url !! .. now if the casino ads all go to the same URL then hell yer thats wrong.. but if it's just many AFF's i don't see a problem .

Adwordsrep some answers would be nice !

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Old 11-10-2005   #6
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<Mod Hat off>

I'm also pretty surprised - DaveN's original post is now 5 days old - have a look - all still there live:

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en...rs+ripon&meta=

8 Adwords results from one domain.

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Old 11-10-2005   #7
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Oh - and in case its hard for anyone to find the ads being discussed - they are the first 8 results.



Yep - DaveN is talking abou all Adwords positions 1 to 8 inclusive.

That's the three at the top of the page - the other 5 are down the side of the page..........
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Old 11-10-2005   #8
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And not restricted to one set of keywords either.
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Old 11-10-2005   #9
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yer ... sons of beaches ... and I know why but it still sucks !

Use A D Joinery for builders in Ripon
thomsonlocal.com/adjoinery


C & D Construction offers builders in Ripon
thomsonlocal.com/cdconstruction

Find L Forster Decorators for builders in Ripon
thomsonlocal.com/lforsterdecorators

Sponsored Links
Use Professional Builders
for builders in Ripon
from ThomsonLocal.com
thomsonlocal.com/professionalbuilde

Want to find builders?
Concept Solutions Nth Yorkshire in
Ripon on ThomsonLocal.com
thomsonlocal.com/conceptsolutionsnt

K D M Building Services
Builders in Ripon -
at ThomsonLocal.com
thomsonlocal.com/kdmbuildingservice

Try Eastwood for builders
in Ripon
from ThomsonLocal.com
thomsonlocal.com/eastwood

Try A P Y Electrical for
builders in Ripon
with ThomsonLocal.com
thomsonlocal.com/apyelectrical

Try EDG Build for
builders in Ripon
at ThomsonLocal.com
thomsonlocal.com/edgbuild


And you know what NOT ONE is a builder in RIPON !!! so where do i go to find a Builder in Ripon ... hmmm maybe google local >> WINNER ..

http://local.google.co.uk/maps?q=bui...&iwloc=A&hl=en

I get a BANK and thomsonlocal !!! ...

OK Yahoo .. http://uk.search.yahoo.com/search?p=builder+ripon ... what Thompson local AGAIN !" wait ... these are Builders in Ripon .. yes !!


So thompson are just playing with google using adwords to give crap results while supplying Yahoo with the correct one .... Go YAHOO !!

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Old 11-10-2005   #10
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No sure how, but I somehow managed to miss this entire thread until this morning. Clearly, I should hang out here more often.

In any case, I sent the thread to the right folks a short time ago. Many thanks for the heads-up.

AWR
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Old 11-10-2005   #11
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Quote:
In any case, I sent the thread to the right folks a short time ago
The PR department?
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Old 11-13-2005   #12
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Sorry Dave I was talking about another problem in AdWords but now that we have an AdWord Rep attention, I will explain it with more details.
I will also show examples of what you describe; you won’t be surprised to know that it happens in every country but that it’s accentuated in UK.
I’m not talking about the same site advertising more times on the same keyword, but about clone sites, I mean the same site with different domains, which is almost the same.
I don’t agree with you when you say:
Quote:
now if the casino ads all go to the same URL then hell yer thats wrong.. but if it's just many AFF's i don't see a problem
It’s OK if we have many affiliate sites and they all have the same banners to the same merchants on their site but those banners are included in some specific content developed by the affiliate.
But I don’t agree and it’s forbidden by Google guidelines to have many affiliate sites promoting the same merchant, I mean when the affiliate doesn’t even have a site and when he includes this kind of URL in AdWords program:
www.merchant-domain.com/affiliate-number

On the other hand, and this is specific to online gambling, It's forbidden by AdWords guidelines to promote online casinos or casinos guide with affiliate links in.
I wish it was permitted, I could then buy AdSenses for my online casino client.
And if it isn’t allowed for my client, the rule must be the same for everybody.
My client is calling me everyday, he isn’t a SEM expert and he just can’t believe me when I try to explain him that his competitors are not allowed to promote their site in AdWords when he sees them there.
He is asking me to do my job properly and to find out who do we have to “pay” to get there; “there must be somebody at Google getting good money for that, find him and I’ll pay him what he asks to [his competitors]”.
Even if I did a great job on the organic SERPs, I feel my days are counted.
My client is asking me to use the same strategy than the sites who bypass the system, announcing just at night, like -www.hispanocasinos.com on Google.es and -www.france-jeux.net on Google.fr both on keyword "casino".
Those sites switch off in the day time, you can't see them on AdWords, but they also change their content putting a real casino list or any other acceptable content.
I think it's this way they manage to enter the AdWords program and to pass through the human edition process.
They put an “acceptable” content while the human validation process goes on, and then they switch to the online gambling content by night.
Sometimes they advertise in the day time with the OK content, they pay for the clicks, but they have an e-mail form to try to transform the day traffic, sending e-mails to the players who left it, in exchange of a quick fortune guide promise or anything else which could be perceived as valuable.
I’m asking myself why they bother hiding themselves when other sites advertise all the time.
Indeed, one day, some of those advertisers doing this little business for months, just switch to the online gambling content for ever.
I can say that because I see sites advertising this way, without hiding, for months and they have no troubles, they are still here, in Spain, France, Italy, UK and even in US !
This was unthinkable before, they could make their tricky things in Europe, Google US staff was far, but never in the US.
This kind of things has always existed. Before they were quickly busted from AdWords.
That’s why I’ve never seen more than 2 or 3 sites advertising on Google Spain or France on keyword CASINO.
But it seems the rules have changed.
Now, advertisers who want to promote sites which are forbidden in AdWords guidelines don’t have to hide anymore.
We are going to review all the sites advertising on AdWords, in 5 country zones, US, Italy, Spain, France, UK and Germany, on the keyword CASINO.
I would ask you to refer to the screenshots I’ll provide otherwise we would surely see different sites at different positions for many reasons:
We aren’t all in the same country and the AdWords system displays the ads in function of the Google domain the user is connected to, but also considering the user’s country (through IP targeting I guess).
Also many advertisers are still switching off their ads on day time (~CET for Italy, Spain, France and UK).
To avoid repeating all the time the same advertiser’s names and URLs I will always refer to the US results if possible.
Let’s start, and don’t forget to go and check the 5 AdWords results screenshots on Flickr.
If you don’t see the advertiser’s sites the way I describe it, check them at a different time or tell me what you see and I will make a screenshot.


Google US
http://static.flickr.com/28/62470224_a925c8395e_o.jpg

The 1st site, BerryChery.com is OK.

The 2nd site http://holdem.web-infosite.com/games/ is an affiliate of Casino On Net and it shows 888's site in a frame 100%...no own content:
www.888.com?sr=362433

The 3rd site is http://fr.gambling-knowledge.com/ (on Google.com but I come from France). On the fr subdomain, you don't have to put an e-mail address, just click the valid button and you’ll access to the page which is full of online casinos banners:
http://fr.gambling-knowledge.com/rec...be_to_Mail.asp
On the www subdomain, you don't have access to this page.

The 4th site VmPoker is OK

The 5th site is http://www.casino-gambling-systems.c...ion-np-cgs.asp.
It has banners to online casinos site at one click form the homepage, clicking on the text ad on the top right (CLICK FOR GREAT BIG BONUSES NOW !):
http://www.best-online-casino.co.za/...inos-Safe.html

The 6th site is www.casino-champs.com/casmonbaseg . This site is an affiliate of MonacoGoldCasino. The "Practice Here" button on every page allows downloading MonacoGoldCasino's software.

The 7th site is a copy of Casino-Champs (same logo name) which is also in the 6th position:
www.the-secrets-of-casinos.com/casmonbaseg/

The 8th site is www.islandreefcasino.com It's an online casino site.

The 9th site www.czservice.cz is OK.

There's 2 more site on the second page.
On the 1st page, for 9 sites, there's 6 sites which violate Google AdWords guidelines.


Google Italy
http://static.flickr.com/24/62470225_8d21c112dd_o.jpg

In Italy, the AdWords shows up on the keyword CAZINO.
The 1st site is the Casino On Net’s affiliate showing n°2 in US.
The 2nd site is the copy of Casino-Champs showing n° 7 in US.
The 3rd site is Casino-Champs showing n°6 in US
Those 3 sites violate the Google AdWords guidelines.


Google Spain
http://static.flickr.com/33/62470220_5151aa85a4_o.jpg

The 1st site is the same Casino On Net’s affiliate showing n°2 in US.

The 2nd site is www.hispanocasinos.com
This site only advertises in Spain and it shows up only by night and the week end.
When it doesn’t show up, the content of the site changes from online casinos banners to a list of Spanish real casinos.
I’ve noticed this site advertising in AdWords for a year now.

The 3rd site is the copy of Casino-Champs showing n° 7 in US.

The 4th site is Casino-Champs showing n°6 in US

The 5th site www.ruletalandia.com only advertises in Spain and it shows links to online casinos, one click from the home page, or 2 click if you take in consideration the pre home page (click on MENU to open it and then click on the second link “DONDE JUGAR”, you’ll see a list of links to 14 online casinos).

The 6th site www.casinorojo.com only advertises in Spain and it allows the download of the Casino On Net software from its unique page. There’s also a pop up to Casino On Net when you quit the site.

The 7th site www.tecnoruleta.com is OK.

The 8th site www.trucos-online.com is OK.

There’s 8 sites advertising on Google Spain for the keyword casino and 6 of them are violating AdWords guidelines which forbid gambling sites. Like in other languages we have also advertisers which show up 2 times with copy sites (n°3 and n°4) and we have affiliate sites promoting the same merchant (n°1 and n°6).


I had to split my post because it's to long.

Last edited by Turulillo : 11-13-2005 at 03:14 PM.
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Old 11-13-2005   #13
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Continuation of the previous post

Google France
http://static.flickr.com/26/62470218_fcb3d9e432_o.jpg

We have almost the same sites advertising on French language as on Spanish.
I will just list the different sites which violate the AdWords guidelines:
The 1st site is the same Casino On Net’s affiliate showing n°2 in US.
The 2nd site is Gambling-Knowledge.com showing n°3 in US
By clicking on the button (you don’t have to put an e-mail address on the fr subdomain) you’ll be able to see the “real” content.
The 3rd site is www.france-jeux.net.
Like www.hispanocasinos.com this site only shows up by night and the week end.
The content changes, from online casino’s banners to “clean” content, when the site doesn’t show up in AdWords.
The 4th site is the copy of Casino-Champs showing n° 7 in US.
The 5th site is Casino-Champs showing n°6 in US
The 6the site Vaincrelaroulette.com is OK
The 7h site LuxuryCollection.com is OK
The 8th site Jeux.fr is OK
There’s 8 sites advertising and 5 of them violate the AdWords guidelines.


Google UK
http://static.flickr.com/29/62470222_cecf41fcd6_o.jpg

The number of sites advertising with AdWords UK is 10 on the first page, and most of them are advertising on other languages, so I won't list again in details the URLs and explain how they violate the guidelines.
There's 2 sites which are duplicated, for example, sites n°1, 4 and 7 are clones of the same site displaying a land based casino list:
www.whichcasino.co.uk/google/a/
www.best-uk-casino.co.uk/a/
www.poker-clubs.com/a/index.htm
And sites n°8 and n°9 are clones and they display online casino ads.
www.which-uk-casino.co.uk/google/a/
www.findacasino.co.uk/google/a/
Strange… this land based casino list reminds me the French and Spanish sites which wait to pass through the validation process, and then change their content.
And their URL ends exactly the same way than the 2 following clone sites which display online casinos banners, but, did you noticed the funny thing ?
Site n°1 and site n°8 are from the same domain, but it’s 2differents URLs.
The n°1 is the “clean” one, and the n°8 is the sneaky one.
I believe that those 5 sites are from the same webmaster.
You’ve also noticed the n°5 site which is our Casino On Net’s affiliate showing n°2 in US
In the UK, advertisers are violating Google guidelines about gambling like on the other language markets, but they also manipulate the system placing the same site many times (trying to stay in topic Dave ;-)).


Google Germany
No need to provide a screenshot here.
Germany is the only language where there is no an advertisers on the words CASINO or KASINO. I must admit I’m impressed by those Germans who follow AdWords guidelines and accessorily build great cars.


Now that I see all the work I’ve done to write this post, the time it took me (I’m not writing in my mother language) I’ve noticed that I wrote many times “…advertisers are violating Google guidelines”.
Advertisers aren’t responsible for that, they shouldn’t have the possibility to do so.
We are talking about sponsored results, that means that they are completely under Google’s control.
Google “sees” redirection in the organic results but couldn’t do the same with the sponsored results which are watched much closer ?
I think Google staff doesn’t want to penalise those sites until they’re forced to do so.
As I told in a previous post, I’ve written 4 times to the AdWords team in Spain in a 10 days period, to the same e-mail address I used before with a great reactivity from them.
I also wrote a request through the AdWords website.
I’ve provided all the information I’m giving to you now.
I got no answer…nothing.
I’m sorry, but I have to say that it is a shame from a company like Google to act like that.
Maybe I could have believed that the problem was unintentional even if it’s big; those sites are advertising for months and they represent more than 70% of the sites advertising on one of the top 10 keywords AdWords staff should control.
But when you have somebody pointing out the problem, with insistence, and you don’t answer his e-mails, it just means one thing:
You are perfectly aware and you don’t want to resolve the “problem” because it isn’t one, it’s part of your business.
OK then, I’m fine with that, just admit it and make the rules clear for everyone.
I don’t want to be forced to cheat to advertise on AdWords but if my competitors advertise, I want to have the same right….and they do advertise.
Please don’t come and say me they don’t, I think I’ve spend enough time and shown strong evidences.
It won’t be a problem for me if they didn’t, because we would then be on the same level.
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Old 11-21-2005   #14
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Hi Guys and Girls

I am new to this forum, so saying hi to everyone.

Click Fraud

I launched a new website just 6 months ago and keen to get the visitor numbers moving as quickly as possible, I started using google adwords.

While I was waiting for my SEO keywords to kick in and start working for me, I thought it would be a good short-term solution to use Google Ad Words.

After a short time I became suspicious about the quality and quantity of clicks from the ad words program.


It played on mind my so I started to search the net for other people who had the same concerns, and discovered (perhaps not to my surprise) that a lot of other people felt the same way and happened a cross a website that offered an Ad Words tracking service (I opted for their 10 day free trial)

I was horrified at the results almost 42% of the clicks I got were made up of multiple clicks from the same IP addresses (I admit that some of these could have come from genuine users who used the ad words to get back to my site rather than save it as a favourite)

The multiple clicks were costing me over £1500 per month in lost opportunity (not sure what that is in dollars)

The tracking software did highlight that a lot of these multiple clicks from a single IP address were not random clicks at different times of the day or week, but in fact clicks that received in quick succession at regular intervals (some as little as 60 seconds separated them).

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Old 11-21-2005   #15
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Hi Madbob,

I've worked with almost every PPC network, from AltaVista, Fast/AllTheWeb, Inktomi in the beginning to Espotting now MIVA, Overture, Voila in France, TeRespondo in Mexico, Argentina and Brazil, Quepasa, etc...and Google AdWords.
I've never tried Ask Jeeves/Teoma.
I must say there is click fraud every where, I've spent a lot of time tracking it.
When I've started tracking clicks (around 2002, I came in the business in early 2000 in France), for the same amount of clicks, we had 1 sale from Fast, 2 from Google and 4 from Voila (Voila.fr from Wanadoo in France).
Thoses stats were made on a verry big amount of clients coming from every kind of businesses.
Now I can say that MIVA has the worst quality of clicks, a lots of click fraud and they do nothing or almost nothing to change this situation.
Google AdWords is the n°1. I'm impressed by all they do to protect the advertisers.
I don't want to write a super post again so I would just say one last thing.
You won't find better clicks in a PPC program than AdWords, but Google can't control 100% their affiliates network while you can be sure that Google won't send you false clicks, so if AdWords is sending you more clicks that you can buy, just pick up the clicks from Google's search engine and don't accept the clicks from Google affiliate network (clicks from AdSenses).
But believe me that even the clicks from AdSenses are much better than clicks from any other network.
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Old 11-21-2005   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turulillo
Hi Madbob,

I've worked with almost every PPC network, from AltaVista, Fast/AllTheWeb, Inktomi in the beginning to Espotting now MIVA, Overture, Voila in France, TeRespondo in Mexico, Argentina and Brazil, Quepasa, etc...and Google AdWords.
I've never tried Ask Jeeves/Teoma.
I must say there is click fraud every where, I've spent a lot of time tracking it.
When I've started tracking clicks (around 2002, I came in the business in early 2000 in France), for the same amount of clicks, we had 1 sale from Fast, 2 from Google and 4 from Voila (Voila.fr from Wanadoo in France).
Thoses stats were made on a verry big amount of clients coming from every kind of businesses.
Now I can say that MIVA has the worst quality of clicks, a lots of click fraud and they do nothing or almost nothing to change this situation.
Google AdWords is the n°1. I'm impressed by all they do to protect the advertisers.
I don't want to write a super post again so I would just say one last thing.
You won't find better clicks in a PPC program than AdWords, but Google can't control 100% their affiliates network while you can be sure that Google won't send you false clicks, so if AdWords is sending you more clicks that you can buy, just pick up the clicks from Google's search engine and don't accept the clicks from Google affiliate network (clicks from AdSenses).
But believe me that even the clicks from AdSenses are much better than clicks from any other network.
Hi Turulillo

Thanks for your response.

I understand that Google or any other Ad Word provider is unable to cut out all click abuse, but what makes me mad is their attitude to ad word customers who raise it as an issue.

Googles stock response is "It doesn't exist"

Then when I send evidence I am told that they will investigate it and get back to me within 2-3 working days - now almost 3 weeks later I have still not heard anything from google.

A Cynical person might think that Google have a vested interest in Not stamping out click abuse, as it increases their advertising revenue stream.

Certainly in my experience they do not display any urgency in dealing with or even acknowledging the evidence of click abuse.

Mad Bob
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Old 01-17-2006   #17
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*Bump* - this issue is still ongoing.

Google are still serving multiple ads for Thomson pages in the listings:
http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en...=Google+Search
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Old 01-17-2006   #18
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I have stopped using Google Ad Words - Full Stop

They have still not taken any action on my complaint, nor have they even replied to my emails on the subject, still I expect that the £3000- £4000 per month I was spending, is chump change to google.

The only way they will take any notice is if every ad words advertiser stopped their advertising in protest - of course this isn't likely to happen so until hell freezes over I guess ad word advertisers will continue to pay for invalid clicks
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Old 01-17-2006   #19
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12/22/2005 06:25:00 PM Marissa Mayer, VP of Search Products & User Experience, said:
Quote:
AOL will receive a credit towards advertising purchased through Google's ad program. You might wonder if this will affect the ad auction. It won't. We don't offer preferential treatment on advertising (in either the auction or the display) to any of our partners.
http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2005/...ouncement.html

Looks like someone in the UK forgot to tell Marissa about this..... http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en...=Google+Search
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Old 01-20-2006   #20
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eBay seems to be getting a few extras up, too:
http://www.google.co.uk/search?num=1...sy&btnG=Search

At present there's two links to eBay in the advertising right.
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