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#1
07-27-2004
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Mike Grehan Stirs Up SEMPO Controversy
In Mike Grehan's most recent article named Who needs SEMPO? he writes "SEMPO has approved a $1,500 per week stipend to Ms Coll. This amounts to a salary of $78,000, to fund a part time effort from someone who already has a full time job running a SEM business."
Anyd has an excellent summary of this at his blog. This is all pretty shocking to me. I am on the education committee of SEMPO, I was not aware of the salary. I wonder how this is all going to play out. Lots of SEMPO board members, advisory members and regular members are at this forum. What are your thoughts? |
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#2
07-27-2004
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B. Coll says "The Board of Directors have received no financial compensation for their volunteer position on the board of SEMPO."
Also, a little clarification, she also said "We have by-laws that spell out the term of a Director and how they are to be replaced and/or elected. We will be opening a new Board member position up for members to nominate and then vote in. This will happen in 2004. Another Board member will be added from UK/Europe by London SES in June. This person will be appointed by the current Board based on their ability to mobilize volunteers to carry out the SEMPO mission in Europe." |
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#3
07-27-2004
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Interesting article. To me I don’t really see the point off some of the statements i read. I do not know Ms.Coll at all, but if that’s a SEMPO business decision who are we to make controversy out of it. Obliviously Ms.Coll is very qualified for the position , whether she has another full time income is irrelevant...she’s qualified
As for SEMPO, they have the right to run their business the way they choose to better the organizations look and impression on people, if MS.Coll can deliver this outline with good conversions then, yes, the fee paid to her is justified in SEMPO's mind Not being involved with SEMPO myself and really do not see a Canadian content factor in their plan (I COULD BE WRONG since I think i have been to the site once or twice a long time ago) As any business, their decisions are hopefully made from proper direction, It is always hard for small organizations to add a second "pipe" to thier business model/plan when it looks like the "damn" is going to bust...so to speak If that added salary is the problem, I’m sure SEMPO can justify it in their business direction From what I also read....the board at SEMPO has some heavy weights on it, these professionals do take the time to make SEMPO a part of their work, should they be paid...well....how much work are they losing by providing this service. Once again look at this list of Directors, they are "movers and shakers" in some peoples eyes More power to you SEMPO, hope you benefit in that direction your are following to make SEMPO more credible and recognized My 2 cents Cheers WC Last edited by Incubator : 07-27-2004 at 02:50 PM. |
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#4
07-27-2004
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Nick |
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#5
07-27-2004
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A while back, I worked for a firm that signed up as a member to SIMPER
 I got a few spam emails, some affiliate offers, etc...complete with tracking codes! Nothing substantial...and, I've been predicting this move (eg, that Barbara gets paid by SIMPER) for a while now. Nobody - repeat, NOBODY, is going to go & crusade for the industry without some direct (and or easily trackable indirect) compensation. >>>not a sausage That's good. >>>board members Dam st8 they should get paid! I happen to know one or three of those guys, and IMHO, they should be getting some serious $$$ since they hopped on board and in many ways legitimized the whole thing. If it weren't for Kevin, Danny, etc al (Fred & company too) they Barbara would have been standing alone, running a flag up the pole on an island by herself, with nobody heading or caring about the cattle call to 'action'. |
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#6
07-27-2004
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I think the $ thing is a side issue, of course people deserve compensation for their efforts.
To me the greater point is that thus far they have done nothing for nobody but themselves. I don't see that changing. The day they close the joke down will be a happy day for SEO's, imho. |
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#7
07-27-2004
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The whole idea is that everybody gives something and as a whole our industry does better. $78,000 is a bunch of money. Quote:
__________________
The SEO Book |
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#8
07-27-2004
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The 78k is irrelevant cash amount, that would be an SEO account spread over a year at $6500k a month. Im sure Ms.Coll would treat that as a client type of payment structure area or maybe not, I dont know the nature of her pricing and I really dont want to as well Sometimes it costs money to make money, and offer a service that is trying to become an industry standard does take alot of time and money Instead of hearing posts like "is cloaking bad " do meta tags work? and all the other negative information surrounding SEO, at least SEMPO seems to be trying to bring it into the over deserved attention it needs But then again im still also looking for Canadian inclusion factors before I would be a member Cheers WC |
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#9
07-27-2004
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It may seem like a lot of money, but it does depend on how many hours per week a person puts into the organization, and you definitely have to consider those hours as lost billable time- it's a trade off - you can only 'donate' so many free hours to any cause. and you also have to consider Barbara's standard hourly rate, which is at the top of the SEO scale. i'm not saying I agree or disagree with the idea. but it will be very interesting to see all the reactions to this. |
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#10
07-27-2004
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It is not like those placements are without payment either. I remember at a conference (I think NY SES) Kevin Lee stated that he tracks his traffic and that they have seen conversions come from SEMPO. Quote:
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__________________
The SEO Book |
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#11
07-27-2004
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Now that same 78k for SEM, PPC, portal development wont do it, sorry thats just the facts, especially when you have them come to you and ask to be in the top positions they feel are converting Quote:
Cheers WC |
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#12
07-27-2004
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you can build an amazing site for $20,000 and $58,000 is a ton of money for SEO. the casino is not a good or fair comparison to make though. the average US worker (especially the average non profit worker) makes nowhere near $78,000 / year.
__________________
The SEO Book |
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#13
07-27-2004
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Back to the topic of SEMPO, all im saying is that if they are stepping to the plate to offer a better service more power to them and it will come at some form of cost that should be covered Cheers wC |
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#14
07-27-2004
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When you volunteer for a cause you do so for the good of that cause. Don't you think it's a little coincidental that board members are now (allegedly) being paid for that time. A cynic would suggest that was their intent all along. Barbara has been a little too happy to take the lead role, don't you think?
Simple litmus test...ask her to resign...we'll then see if she is doing what is best for the industry and not herself. |
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#15
07-27-2004
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The money thing is just a side issue.
Looking, through my biased eyes, at the bigger picture. SEMPO is just another attempt to control this industry by a group of individuals looking to advance their own aims. I am not prepared to accept that and will not accept that. The power, influence and $ in our industry lies not with the board of SEMPO and their companies, it lies with the independent webmaster professionals [as wmw puts it] that daily shape the www. It is the interests of that group that should be paramount, to allow SEMPO to try and usurp that power by the back door is simply wrong. Rather than allow a very small group of individuals to gain "special" privaliges we should be pushing the SE's to be more accountable to the webmasters that grace them with their content. Without trying to get too personal, I have never, ever, seen a more amatuer set up in my entire life, and I've been around somewhat. I am sure the antics of SEMPO have raised much amusement within the SE's, if it wasn't so sad I'd be laughing too. Without trying to get too personal part two [but sometimes it is about individuals] - There are [were] a couple of members of the board that I think our industry looked to, people we expected to not be blinded by BS and look out for "us". I think those two in particular have in some way let "us" down, Mr Sullivan and Mr Tabke need to take action to address that. Once again, IM[biased]HO. |
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#16
07-27-2004
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The trick is, will the members think they are getting value for their money?
If not they will either demand accountability, results and/or demonstrable work product or they will vote with their feet. It's been a year and I think people are still a little fuzzy on understanding what SEMPO is about and what SEMPO can do for them.
__________________
Scifimatter |
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#17
07-27-2004
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I guess everyone will have to decide for themselves if SEMPO is an org that is out to promote the SEO industry or just promote a few individuals within the SEO Industry.
I guess if these folks want to promote our industry, it's OK with me, but they really should hold the self promotion to minium when working for a non-profit org (no matter if they get paid or not to volunteer their time). |
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#18
07-27-2004
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Been out all day and just saw Mike's article. Thought I'd add some points, as well as address the specific concern NFFC had.
Unlike what Mike says, SEMPO was not Barbara's "brainchild." It grew out of the open forums we'd have at SES. Inevitably, we'd come back to issues about the industry reputation, the need to organize and so on. SEMPO was the brainchild of many of those who attended those sessions and wanted something more formal to emerge. Barbara was one of those in attendance at these sessions -- and to be fair to her, she stepped up to the plate big time. You can question why she did it. Was it to earn the money she's now apparently paid? Was it to raise her reputation? Was it just out of desire to help the industry? Only she knows the true answers. Personally, I don't think she needed SEMPO as a money earner or reputation builder, but others are certainly free to disagree. But there's no doubt she was a prime mover in getting the organization past just talk and into action. And the board members? Many of those were people who attended the organizational meeting in Boston 2003 and did a lot of work voluntarily to get things going without any promise of being on the board or any idea that it might actually happen. Anyone who was at that meeting could choose to be involved. As for my involvement, I made it clear even when ideas were being floated of a group in those early organizational sessions that I didn't want to be running it or leading it. I'm busy enough with the work I do for SEW and SES. More important, SEMPO is an opportunity for others to have a voice for the industry. I did think forming SEMPO was a good idea, however (and I still think the group can play an important role). That's one reason I agreed that between the Boston SES session and the August SES show last year when SEMPO launched, I'd serve as one of the interim board members. I did want to help see the organization actually get off the ground. After that time, I stepped down off the board. I was happy to serve in an advisory capacity to the board, meaning that I might offer advice if they sought it or proactively if something seemed worth raising. For example, when concerns were raised about some people thinking SEMPO was an accreditation body, I helped suggest some of the text and disclaimers that were posted to the site. More recently, as I explained in another thread, I raised to the entire board that I thought SEMPO would need to move toward addressing the reputation issue in some concrete way. I'd also spoken with Barbara a few weeks ago about the upcoming meeting and how I thought it was important SEMPO be ready to map out what it might do next. So to what NFFC said: Quote:
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Of course, what SEMPO ultimately does (and if it succeeds) is down to the SEMPO membes themselves. My understanding is that the SEMPO members were surveyed and that some of the key issues were more educational material, help in business setup and so on. I think SEMPO has actually done some of that -- but a SEMPO board or committee member would comment better on this than I. For the record, the stipend is news to me. As for the appointment of someone from Italy, Mike raised this issue with me several weeks ago. My reaction was basically, is SEMPO supposed to have a representative on the board from every country where it has members? If so, it's going to be a very large board indeed. After talking with Mike, I did speak with Barbara and asked her about this. She explained that the person appointed had done a lot of work lobbying for SEMPO to grow in Europe. So the appointment seems in line with the initial appointments -- it was someone that stepped up to the plate. As for Mike's suggestion that the entire board resign, I'd suggest something more practical. First, I don't think you want to lose your entire board all at once. But all the board members do have fixed terms. The board might want to consider moving those forward in stages, so over the coming year, voting might actually take place by the members and the whole "self-appointed" issue would be resolved. But the existing board certainly should have the right to stand again, if they want. By all means, these or other issues should be raised at the next SEMPO meeting by the actual members of SEMPO. Whether it survives, thrives or what direction it goes is really down to them. |
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#19
07-27-2004
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>I'm sorry if you feel let down.
I do, like it or not you have a "position" within the industry, people look to you to lead. As the industry evolves people will be looking to you more, it's a cross you will have to carry. >Whether it survives, thrives or what direction it goes is really down to them. I don't think it is, they need the bulk of the SEO's behind them, or at least those that can shout loudest. After such a bad start, and I mean bad, the thing needs nuking. Maybe somebody could start again but not with the current leadership, better to kill it dead. |
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#20
07-27-2004
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First off:
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I joined SEMPO after that first meeting in Boston 2003 and I believe I was one of the first out of my seat to hand a card to Barbara (who I had not met previously) to say I was interested. During that meeting there was a call for volunteers and as Danny stated, there were no promises to anyone that by donating time, it would be rewarded with a board seat. I honestly wish I had more time to devote to helping develop a body that would help get out the word of SEMPO and what its mission is to accomplish and that is to create more exposure for us so that the media and advertising agencies would take us seriously and especially give us some rationalle for increasing our rates to what interactive agencies charge to top tier clients. Granted, SEO today is still a very young industry and as Mike speculates, a good percentage of the 'players' in this field are single consultants or micro firms. But I'll tell you what, this industry is changing and for the better. I remember sitting in a site clinic a few years back during SES and seeing the speakers dole out advice to attendees for sites like BobsDonutShop.com and MarysSewingShop.com (examples) and then fast forwarding to Boston 2003 when suddenly people began to take us seriously, when during the site clinic one of the first hands to go up was pointed to for a question and the guy said my site is www.ebay.com. To see the look on the crowds face that we had transcended into corporate America was extemely satisfying especially now when even bigger corporate names are in attendance at our trade shows and wanting to know where to start. I remember sitting at a session during Ad:Tech and watching the girl sitting behind me stand up and ask quite honestly and pointedly that she was new to search and didn't know where to start when directing her marketing people to drive traffic to their web sites. I looked at her name badge and it read "Procter & Gamble". The world needs more information on search and what we do, to know that we provide a valuable service and for that we can charge what our counterparts in the media world charge. How many of you feel that you deserve to make what your counterparts as media buyers, creative directors or television producers make? This is why I joined SEMPO. For one, I have patience and please, it is only been a year and during that year, tremendous strides have been made, so many speaking engagements around the world have been listened to by a curious audience (I myself attended and spoke at the little SEMPO meeting held during the Tokyo SES show - paid for out of my own pocket). Membership has grown, case studies donated, job boards created, RFPs for SEO work by SEMPO members launched, research and surveys completed and for the first half of SEMPO's young life, most of this was done by Barbara and the Board, with a great deal coming out of her own pocket, not to mention the clients she has turned down because of her workload. I have been proud to watch Barbara work tirelessly for the cause, to see her go from conference to conference to one speaking engagement after the next spreading the word with what little she had to work with, especially in the beginning. I think that it has been a great idea, that great networking community of SEO profesionals has developed and that even in it's infacy, great strides have been made and more to come. The stipend? Oh please. From what Barbara has done out of her own pocket and the amount of work that she has not had time to service doesnt even compare to the stipend or referrals that she has gotten as a result. She was a successful SEO before SEMPO and certainly didn't kick start SEMPO with the thought of getting a stipend. Oh, and living in the bay area where Barbara maintains her practice is not cheap and the average worker there would have to make more than $78K to live decently. The Board? I think we'll see more voting in the near future to include the general membership as potential candidates but in the beginning, it was those who volunteered and helped out and it was always a consensus that in the future the board membership would be open for a vote by the membership of SEMPO. I would like to personally thank the board for their time and vision and the membership for making us what we are today - a trade organization with a future - if you'll let it. Other organizations have attempted to achieve what SEMPO has accomplished so far but this is the first time that so many SEM firms have rallyed about each other giving out ideas and attempting to help each other out and certainly the first time to garner so much corporate support as sponsors and members including the search engines themselves. Let's give it time folks and if you have an idea or suggestion or just want to help out, please stop by the SEMPO booth during the San Jose SES conference and lets talk. I'll be working the booth on Wednesday from 12-2. |
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