Search Engine Watch
SEO News

Go Back   Search Engine Watch Forums > Search Engines & Directories > Google > Other Google Issues
FAQ Members List Calendar Forum Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 08-04-2005   #1
stuntdubl
Traffic not SEO.
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 45
stuntdubl is a splendid one to beholdstuntdubl is a splendid one to beholdstuntdubl is a splendid one to beholdstuntdubl is a splendid one to beholdstuntdubl is a splendid one to beholdstuntdubl is a splendid one to beholdstuntdubl is a splendid one to behold
Lightbulb Anatomy of a Successful Reinclusion Request

Background:
A new client signs up for some services. Only days later (prior to start date) the site vanishes completely from Google. No results for site:site.com - greybar.

Hmm...looks awefully fishy we think. There's a few technical issues that we are working to rule out, potentially dupe content issues, but overall 90% of me thinks this is a hand ban for being caught with questionable link manipulating software (this was in the process of being removed after he alerterted us to it). Normally I would guess there would at least be "remnants" of the site if it was indeed a technical issue.

From further discussion with the client, the main potential culprit is established as the aforementioned link manipulation program. Without getting caught up off-topic on that, we will assume this is against G's TOS, and the client has been caught red-handed. Granted, the client was a bit unaware that testing the waters on this program may lead to such a problem as being totally removed. While ignorance is no excuse, we can hold a little hope that some special consideration may be given for a site that has had a history of good standing.

That is a bit of the background on the case, I will post the reinclusion request in it's entirety a bit below.

In hopes of increasing communication between Google and webmasters, I would love to see other cases of successful or perhaps even non-successful reinclusion requests. Please no whining about "my site is still not back," or "why was I removed". Only commentary on the APPROACH of crafting a reinclusion request - suggestions of what would be the most effective for improving the likelihood of reinclusion for those who have been busted or become collateral damage.

I have honestly not run into a situation similar to this where a reinclusion request was necessary to date, but have always tried to pay attention a bit to what was said by engineers on the subject where webmasters had a legitimate claim (I can only IMAGINE the volume of garbage requests they must sift through).

From what I've read, seen, and heard -
Suggestions for improving the likelihood of reinclusion
  • Fess up - If you did something wrong admit it and fix it
  • Don't ASK WHY- You know what you did, or most likely some potential causes - At least fix those if you're going to ask WHY
  • Don't whine - If it is the fate of your business you should probably be buying adwords anyhow
  • Don't be a recidivist - pretty self explanatory - if you get special consideration and abuse it you won't get it again
  • Don't bug 'em - G is NEVER probably going to get through their mountains of e-mail...don't make it worse
  • Re-read the webmaster guidelines several times before sending off your request.
  • Contact a professional and have them review your site for potential infractions, and diagnose if it is indeed a hand banning.
  • Be polite - Google doesn't owe you anything - You're lucky you got free traffic is long as you did you filthy spammer

What would you include in your list of things to improve your likelihood of a successful reinclusion?

####Sample Reinclusion Request####
To whom it may concern,

I recently found that my site was no longer indexed by Google from what appears to be a manual removal. Upon further inspection by a consultant, I realized that I was doing a few things that were questionable according to your terms of service.

I was using a program called "link vault" that I didn't realize could be of detriment to my site. The link vault code has been removed, and I'm hoping if there are any other issues you will let me know so I can remedy them and have my site can be reincluded.

I will certainly read your guidelines closer and be more discriminating in my choices for marketing my site.

Thank you in advance for any help that you may be able to provide and your time.

Regards,

Guilty webmaster

Last edited by stuntdubl : 08-04-2005 at 12:45 PM.
stuntdubl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2005   #2
Matt B
drifting through . .
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 20
Matt B will become famous soon enough
My re-inclusion requests have been successful, I do many every year. However, I do have one client that claims threatening to pull their AdWords budget contributed to the re-inclusion. I can't argue with that . . . .

It has also been my experience that 80% of the site owners that think they are banned have a technical issue that can be solved by running some very simple tests.

In my opinion, the amount of information provided in the request seems to have an impact on the weight the request is given. Providing specific pages, URL's, software, tactics and methods along with the coinciding guideline reference shows that you have an understanding of what is against the guidelines and what was being done in the site.

There does however, seem to be a timed penalty phase for specific infractions. The simpler or less drastic spam on the site, the less time penalized. The more complex and intelligent methods of working the SE's seem to incur some level of wrath and repeated inclusion requests or a long wait may be necessary. It seems as though the severity of the penalty is in relation to the sophistication of the guideline violation.

For example, a traffic-power site is fairly easy to get back into Google; the level of sophistication is very low. However, many of the link schemes are very detailed and require a level of knowledge of SE algo’s to manipulate, therefore the heavier penalty.

Last edited by Matt B : 08-04-2005 at 02:46 PM.
Matt B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2005   #3
Reflect
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 18
Reflect is on a distinguished road
Tests?

Quote:
It has also been my experience that 80% of the site owners that think they are banned have a technical issue that can be solved by running some very simple tests.
Hello,

Matt what sort of tests can you run out of curiosity?

Take care,

Brian
Reflect is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2005   #4
Matt B
drifting through . .
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 20
Matt B will become famous soon enough
Test for server info, I like using WebBug. Make sure the host is serving the site properly.

The main thing I have run into is web managers that change the homepage and get too fancy with the programming; leaving only javascript or visual cues for the navigation, which search engines can't get through.

Other things that help:
Lynx text browser
Xenu Link Slueth
Robots.txt file (up to date & correctly formatted)
Good 'ol HTML detective work
Matt B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2005   #5
McFox
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: sunny Scotland
Posts: 20
McFox is on a distinguished road
I find that a simple email request giving a little history of the site, if any exists, to either Google or Yahoo is all it takes for reinclusion in the index.
McFox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2005   #6
surfer7
Newbie
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 3
surfer7 is on a distinguished road
There is an interesting blog about someone trying to get re-indexed in Google after being banned. Apparently a lot of web sites have been removed from the Google index in the most recent update on July 26th. Check out http://pingblogs.blogspot.com

IMO, I'm wondering if Google has too much power at this point (if they remove a site, the site is effectively banned from the Internet) that they have a responsibility to be careful about who they ban or suffer legal repurcussiosn. This whole automatic algorithm banning technique seems unjust.
surfer7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2005   #7
Reflect
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 18
Reflect is on a distinguished road
Thank you

Thanks Matt. I could see what you mean on the example.

Take care,

Brian
Reflect is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2005   #8
stimpsy
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 7
stimpsy is on a distinguished road
"I was using a program called "link vault" that I didn't realize could be of detriment to my site."

This is the first time I hear someone complaining about link-vault.

Are you sure this has anything to do with the domain being banned?

Even if a real person from Google looked at your site, all they would have seen is static links in the footer.

Sounds weird to me..
stimpsy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2005   #9
surfer7
Newbie
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 3
surfer7 is on a distinguished road
According to Google, sites are never inspected nor banned manually. It is all by automatic algorithms. If you think about it, what are the chances they would manually look over 8 billion web sites and end up finding yours?
surfer7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2005   #10
stimpsy
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 7
stimpsy is on a distinguished road
" According to Google, sites are never inspected nor banned manually. It is all by automatic algorithms. If you think about it, what are the chances they would manually look over 8 billion web sites and end up finding yours?"

They are actually using manual reviewers! But those are used to judge the relevancy of a search results, not to check artificial popularity techniques.

Have a look here in the middle of the page approximately:

http://www.searchbistro.com/
stimpsy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2005   #11
stimpsy
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 7
stimpsy is on a distinguished road
Juste found the link I was looking for...

http://www.searchbistro.com/exit.php...34&entry_id=28

PDF file which would be used by Google Testers to evaluate a website...
stimpsy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2005   #12
Netdetective
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Florida, USA
Posts: 7
Netdetective is on a distinguished road
Unsure of status of my domain

How long does it sometimes take for a Google engineer to get around to looking at a domain after somebody receives a reply that their issue has been turned over to an engineer?

I'm unsure about the status of my domain that was dropped by Google. I was using a doorway page program called "Rankingpower" at the time, and I was very honest with them and I openly admitted to it, and apologized to Google when I sent them my original reinclusion request via their webform. Before hand, I made sure I deleted all the rankingpower pages and did a good clean up job. I also did an extreme makeover of my homepage.

Google sent me their standard autoreply:

"Finally, if you don't think this response fully addressed your question,
please feel free to respond to this email with more information."

so I replied back, letting them know my site was indeed out of the index, and that I corrected the problems and removed all possible violations.

I then got autoreply back Aug 17:

"Thank you for your reply. We understand your concern and have passed your
message on to our engineering team for further investigation."

In the meanwhile googlebot has occasionally spidered my homepage every couple days during this period.

www. beyourowndetective.com

Fred

Last edited by JohnW : 09-09-2005 at 10:40 PM.
Netdetective is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2005   #13
Netdetective
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Florida, USA
Posts: 7
Netdetective is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt B
There does however, seem to be a timed penalty phase for specific infractions. The simpler or less drastic spam on the site, the less time penalized.
Matt,
How about using doorway page type programs like Rankingpower, Traffic Swarm, etc.. How serious is that?
Fred
Netdetective is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2005   #14
Andy1969
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Leeds
Posts: 43
Andy1969 is on a distinguished road
Would this help site owners / webmasters who have had there site dissappear from Googles results when rebranding a domain, using 301 or the 302 recommendation below.

See Scottie's (Scottie Claiborne) article 'Switching to a New Domain Without Losing Your Google Rankings' at Highrankings

If your site does disappear is it worth contacting Google saying that "...my site was called this .com but not it's called that .com..."

Thanks

Andy
Andy1969 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2005   #15
PhilC
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 1,657
PhilC has much to be proud ofPhilC has much to be proud ofPhilC has much to be proud ofPhilC has much to be proud ofPhilC has much to be proud ofPhilC has much to be proud ofPhilC has much to be proud ofPhilC has much to be proud ofPhilC has much to be proud of
Matt Cutts blogged about reinclusion requests at http://www.mattcutts.com/blog/reincl...request-howto/
PhilC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2005   #16
Andy1969
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Leeds
Posts: 43
Andy1969 is on a distinguished road
yes, read that, that's what brought me to post here (Matt has a link to this thread) :O)

What I am asking is can I use this method for the reason I described above? Or do you think the 'Big G' would ignore the request?

cheers
Andy1969 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2005   #17
PhilC
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 1,657
PhilC has much to be proud ofPhilC has much to be proud ofPhilC has much to be proud ofPhilC has much to be proud ofPhilC has much to be proud ofPhilC has much to be proud ofPhilC has much to be proud ofPhilC has much to be proud ofPhilC has much to be proud of
It wouldn't hurt to try it, but without using the "reinclusion request" subject, since the site isn't excluded. But it may be that the new site needs to get rankings in its own right and in its own time. It could help if the new site is sandboxed.

Last edited by PhilC : 09-21-2005 at 07:18 PM.
PhilC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2005   #18
Andy1969
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Leeds
Posts: 43
Andy1969 is on a distinguished road
Cheers Phil, I'll let the thread know what the outcome is.
Andy1969 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2005   #19
mash
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 6
mash is on a distinguished road
Legal Action

We are interested in grouping up with some other people who have been let down by google to club together and explore via lawyers if there is any way google is acting illegally or whether it should be regulated.

In our case we are a company built on google, and we are spending 1000 USD per month on google ads. We have eight full time employees and now our main source of sales leads has disappeared.

We had one < span style="display:none" > on our page containing keywords to help search engines know what the site is about. Having this enables you to align the actual text of your main page to getting the main selling proposition across, and not fill it with lots of words that help google but will put buyers off. I admit we shouldve read the rules but who has time to run a business and read all that small print ?

We were dropped from google because of this and so we discussed the matter with all our staff and they decided together they would prefer to drop the google ads and start ads with yahoo etc instead as a matter of principle. I don't know how long we can sustain that but at least we are standing up to their bullying tactics.

I think everyone in google knows that any site relying on google and dropped from their index is going to have to spend a bomb on google advertising if they want to survive. Thats got to be illegal somehow ?

If google were serious about looking after their customers, they'd send you a warning instead of dropping you (like they do on google ads when they don't like your ad text).

PM me if you're hurting too !
mash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2005   #20
Matt B
drifting through . .
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 20
Matt B will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by Netdetective
Matt,
How about using doorway page type programs like Rankingpower, Traffic Swarm, etc.. How serious is that?
Fred
Typically, if software can make it - software can detect it. If all it's using a javascript redirect, then it may only be a matter of time.

Anyway, according to Google, any doorway is bad. It's all a matter of where you want to put your risk.

--

Mash,
I understand your pain. I've seen it many times and I can understand the frustration. I would question if the example you posted is the reason your site dropped in rankings - are there any other issues in your site? Have you excluded every other option? That just doesn't seem right.

I do have to suggest that reading the Google guidelines is critical to your business. You stated that a business does not have time to read the guidelines, but when your business is dependant on Google traffic, then doesn't a familiarization with Google's guidelines make sense? Any marketing campaign involves homework and an understanding of the risks, reward and potential pitfalls.
Matt B is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off