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Old 05-21-2005   #1
Clint
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Angry What Happened To Google Overnight?

I going to try and keep this short to avoid having to go to
the emergency room due to chest pains, tachycardia and
shortness of breath. As the title says, my TWO websites
where I sell computer hardware and custom built computers
have been TOTALLY AND COMPLETELY REMOVED FROM
GOOGLE OVERNIGHT
! For almost a DECADE I have
worked my a$$ off 12 hours a day 7 days week to stay
number 1, that's *1st*, on the *FIRST* PAGE for
many dozens of PC related search terms,

and consumer electronics, electronics repair techs,
etc., etc. This was STILL the case yesterday, but I
just checked today and my site*S* are totally gone!
Not just one, but BOTH of them! I'm not even
showing up under my own #%$@% business names!
Yet other websites linked to me in my business name
search show up, but not me!


I searched for some friends and relative's websites (both
personal AND business sites) and their sites ARE FINE,
STILL THERE where they were!
Obviously someone
has a personal vendetta against me!!!! Someone PLEASE
tell me what the hell could have happened overnight! I
installed the GToolbar and the PR's for my pages are the
same as they were!


I emailed several Google email addresses plus emailed from
their site to ask them what the hell has happened, but I doubt
they will ever reply and even if they do and put my sites back,
it could take another decade to get my positions back and
I only have about a week AT MOST that I can put up with this!!!!!


I am unaffected in all other SE's, just the Google N@zis have
done this! I have 3 other sites which still show the same in
Google (they are just domains for sale), but these jerks have
obviously for some unknown sadistic reason felt the need to
destroy and ruin my life and my family by completely
removing my livelihood from their index
! Myself and my
family will soon be BANKRUPT AND HOMELESS BECAUSE
OF THIS! I have absolutely NOTHING to live for now!
I feel like just putting a gun to my head.
-Clint
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Old 05-21-2005   #2
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I know, I know, Clint. It can be very upsetting, but the current update isn't over yet. The results you get depend on which database you're hitting a the time, give it a couple of days.

Disappearing doesn't necessarily men being removed from the index. It could be a hosting - or a hosting company - issue, and occasionally there are technical glitches.

I know it's easy enough for someone else to say when they're not in your shoes, but try your best to calm down at least for a few days. Are both your sites on the same server, and has there been any down time at all?
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Old 05-21-2005   #3
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Hey Clint-

You can't base your livelihood on getting free listings in Google. It's time to put together a real marketing plan if sales through your website are that important to your life.
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Old 05-21-2005   #4
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Strange that both sites are gone, unless you've been a VERY naughty boy, it would seem to point to a glitch, IMO.

However, if you're so dependent on G organics, you should have your set-up checked out for G compliance, and consider preparing an AdWords position for use in any future emergencies.
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Old 05-21-2005   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcia
I know, I know, Clint. It can be very upsetting, but the current update isn't over yet. The results you get depend on which database you're hitting a the time, give it a couple of days.

Disappearing doesn't necessarily men being removed from the index. It could be a hosting - or a hosting company - issue, and occasionally there are technical glitches.

I know it's easy enough for someone else to say when they're not in your shoes, but try your best to calm down at least for a few days. Are both your sites on the same server, and has there been any down time at all?
Ok, back to this now: You say "current update", so did that happen overnight last night, and if so, why was only I affected? Like I said, I searched for dozens of other sites I watch from time to time and their results are unchanged. I don't see how any "update" would have totally removed me from even my business name search. Only sites that are linked to me are showing up now!

No, I have not had ANY downtime for months now. 4 of my sites are on the same server; two of them are the ones that are gone, but the other two still show in Google at the same place. So even if there was down time, it would have affected all of the domains. I really feel that I was "targeted" for some reason. I'm wondering if someone that hates me could have done something to get me trashed from Google. Like submitting my sites overnight to Google thousands of times. I tried calling G on the phone but of course that was nothing but a waste of time dealing with another "telephone menu from hell". Senseless menu. They say to email an address, and I did, and it's BOUNCED BACK "we no longer answer email at this address"!! So, I'm screwed, I can't even contact them for an explanation!

Last edited by dannysullivan : 05-23-2005 at 08:04 AM.
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Old 05-21-2005   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scottie
Hey Clint-

You can't base your livelihood on getting free listings in Google. It's time to put together a real marketing plan if sales through your website are that important to your life.
Everyone else does, why not me? It's worked for almost 10 years. I should not have to put together any "marketing plan", and even if I did, how would that get me back to #1? Google doesn't even accept payments for top listings. You aren't supposed to need any marketing plans for Google. I can't afford JACK now anyway, I'll be totally broke and we'll be living on the streets in a couple of weeks.....if I make it that far. This is like a nightmare and I'm hoping I'm still asleep.
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Old 05-21-2005   #7
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Believe me I know how hard it can be, but it may be that we can help you work through it if you like.

First off Google has stopped responding to emails (not that it did much before anyway) and only responds to inquiries from the help page now, but before you go there and email them I suggest that you sit down and marshall all the facts you can find and then send them a very nice query if you want a nice answer. Google is in the middle of an update and your pages and rankings may come back if you wait a couple of days.

I recommend a couple of days away from the computer washed down with lots of cold beer.
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Old 05-21-2005   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glengara
Strange that both sites are gone, unless you've been a VERY naughty boy, it would seem to point to a glitch, IMO.

However, if you're so dependent on G organics, you should have your set-up checked out for G compliance, and consider preparing an AdWords position for use in any future emergencies.
Yes, but it's beyond strange. It's appalling. My pages have remain basically unchanged. I update with new products, change title and descrip tags when needed to reflect any new products, nothing different from what I've been doing all along. No, nothing "naughty" at all.

So just how do I get my "set-up checked out for G compliance"? Your comment regarding Adwords sounds like Google gives special treatment for Adwords users.? How can that help?
Thanks.
-Clint
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Old 05-21-2005   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mel
Believe me I know how hard it can be, but it may be that we can help you work through it if you like.
Definitely, that's why I'm posting this to some forums. ;-)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mel
First off Google has stopped responding to emails (not that it did much before anyway) and only responds to inquiries from the help page now, but before you go there and email them I suggest that you sit down and marshall all the facts you can find and then send them a very nice query if you want a nice answer. Google is in the middle of an update and your pages and rankings may come back if you wait a couple of days.
Well, I already emailed them at every address I had.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mel
I recommend a couple of days away from the computer washed down with lots of cold beer.
I can't very well do that since I have to reply to customer emails.....but of course they will ALL come to a STOP since I will no longer have any new customers again! I don't drink anymore, but now I'm starting again!
Thank you.
-Clint
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Old 05-21-2005   #10
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Google is in the middle of an update....
So Mel, what exactly do you mean by that, what can you tell me about it? Why was only I apparently affected and did this "update" happen overnight?
-Clint
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Old 05-21-2005   #11
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So let me get this straight...

You have had 1st position for a large number of keywords for years and years, you have mysteriously disappeared overnight from Google, through no fault of your own, and [despite having a very good run over the last decade] are merely days away from having to live on the streets.

Does that about sum it up?

Believe it or not you situation seems quite common, I've personally seen it 100's of times.

Its easy to solve, just follow these simple steps;

1. check the bad attitude at the door, be nice
2. quit mixing bold words in with your posts
3. does your business name begin with the letter O
4. most importantly chill out

Now if I could just get a yes to those 4 little questions we could have this solved in no time, you game?
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Old 05-21-2005   #12
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I think there are a couple of things that needs to be adressed here:

1) It is not strange at all that a site drops out of Google - it happens all the time for a number of reasons ranging from editorial judgements, algoritmic changes to technical glitches.

2) It is vertually impossible for any one person to a get a true overview of everything that has changed from one index update to the next. So, even if you think changes has only affected your site it is likely that the same changes has affected thousands or million of sites - but with billions out there you may never see that.


As this case show relying entirely on free trafic from Google is a very risky strategy. It's free, you have no real control of it and Google owe you nothing. Thats the hard realities we have to deal with. Thats why some people suggest that you work out a marketing plan to make sure you have more than one source of new clints and continued revenues - especially if your sources are not fully controlable. Most companies rely on a mix of organic SEO, paid listings, paid inclusion, banners, emails, affiliate programs, PR in addition to off line marketing. Thats a safer way
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Old 05-22-2005   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NFFC
So let me get this straight...

You have had 1st position for a large number of keywords for years and years, you have mysteriously disappeared overnight from Google, through no fault of your own, and [despite having a very good run over the last decade] are merely days away from having to live on the streets.

Does that about sum it up?
No, not exactly. The first half of your statement is correct. But I don't recall stating that I was well-off, rich, etc., with a huge savings account. I also never stated that I had a "very good run". Just because one may be on top of SE's results doesn't translate to being rich or well off, or huge sales. I've had to live from "customer to customer" (similar to "paycheck to paycheck"). I have numerous health problems which consumes just about ALL income. I also help support my retired parents, of which my father is also in bad health with over 12 operations in 3 years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NFFC
Believe it or not you situation seems quite common, I've personally seen it 100's of times.

Its easy to solve, just follow these simple steps;

1. check the bad attitude at the door, be nice
2. quit mixing bold words in with your posts
3. does your business name begin with the letter O
4. most importantly chill out

Now if I could just get a yes to those 4 little questions we could have this solved in no time, you game?
1. So, to whom have I not been nice?? You have no room to talk about attitude until we've TRADED PLACES. You'd have an "attitude" as well if YOU were in MY predicament and were looking for a "nice refrigerator box under the overpass" for you and your family to soon live, and a "nice dumpster" as a buffet!!
2. Bold is used for emphasis. I'm surprised that I even have to point that out. I could use ALL CAPS for emphatic purposes as I did above, do you prefer that?
3. Yes, one of them does, why do you ask?
4. See #1 above, and try to have a little understanding and compassion for someone who's about to LOSE IT ALL. (Again, can't put that in bold since you seem to take exception to it, so it's all caps). It's not yelling, I'm just placing emphasis on a word or words.
Thank you.
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Old 05-22-2005   #14
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Getting back on topic (hint), there's little we can do or find out specifically without actually seeing a particular site and checking it out. But we can try to brainstorm and dig around, and try to come up with some ideas and clues. Let's check out a couple of points:

1. Clint, you say you have several sites. Are the others on the same topic or subject matter, and is there any chance of getting hit for duplicate content? And are they easy to discover through a lot of cross-linking between or among them?

2. There have been problems with sites being hijacked and scraped. Isn't it possible that the site's been hijacked with a 302 or that someone swiped the content and duplicated it elsewhere - and you got hit for that reason?

Gentle request:
How about let's keep any and all personal stuff and personalities out of this, and stay with the topic of the forum - Google Search.

Last edited by Marcia : 05-22-2005 at 05:56 AM.
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Old 05-22-2005   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikkel deMib Svendsen
I think there are a couple of things that needs to be addressed here:

1) It is not strange at all that a site drops out of Google - it happens all the time for a number of reasons ranging from editorial judgments, algorithmic changes to technical glitches.
Yes, I'm aware of that, I've seen that happen before. It happened to me before during the horror of Nov. '03. But I "only" fell back several pages then, I was not deleted from their index as I have been this time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikkel deMib Svendsen
2) It is virtually impossible for any one person to a get a true overview of everything that has changed from one index update to the next. So, even if you think changes has only affected your site it is likely that the same changes has affected thousands or million of sites - but with billions out there you may never see that.
Yes, I can understand that. "NFFC" commented about my biz (one of the sites) beginning with "O". So I searched for numerous other businesses beginning with "O" and they were not affected (if that's what he or she meant as in sites beginning with "O" have been affected).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikkel deMib Svendsen
As this case show relying entirely on free traffic from Google is a very risky strategy. It's free, you have no real control of it and Google owe you nothing. Thats the hard realities we have to deal with. Thats why some people suggest that you work out a marketing plan to make sure you have more than one source of new clients and continued revenues - especially if your sources are not fully controllable. Most companies rely on a mix of organic SEO, paid listings, paid inclusion, banners, emails, affiliate programs, PR in addition to off line marketing. Thats a safer way
Paid listings, paid inclusion, banners, aren't going to help with Google. As for email: I'm more opposed to SPAM that anyone on the planet, so "emails" are not much of an option. I do have an email list though to which customers/potential customers can subscribe. I do have an "affiliate" program if you're referring to links. SEO was apparently good since I'm still on top of other SE's. It was obviously perfect for Google as well up until yesterday, IF that's why I was removed. The PR (if you mean Google Page Rank) for my pages are the same this minute as they were before this happened.

I did notice one thing: using "link:whatever.com" my site only shows being linked from 17 sites Which is NOT correct!! And some of those are the site itself! It was in the hundreds last time I checked, and I just checked those that are linked to me and those links are STILL THERE! So they should be in the results list, but they are not. I also checked other sites to whom I am linked, and they too are not showing up correctly. So, something is wrong with Google's "link:whatever.com" function....if that means anything.
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Old 05-22-2005   #16
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I don't understand your goal ... You need to understand that there is noone in here, not even the most experienced experts, that can magically get you into Google again over night. All we can do is offer to share the experience we have had with similar situations - and thats what most posters have been trying to do. What is it you want us to say?

The best advice you've been given so far is to ...

a) Take it easy - I think most will agree that durring an update sites can drop out but often get back in in a matter of days. Accept it.

b) Start building some alternative marketing channels - putting all (or most of) you eggs in one basket is too dangerous. Paid placement is what most people in here use as a direct "Google or Yahoo backup". In addition most companies also do PR (Public Relations) and traditional (off line or online) advertising. The key is to not rely entirely on one marketing channel.

Personally I don't like to have much more than 10-20% of the traffic coming from organic results. It have to be low enough for me (or my clients) to survive if they are one day dumped from the index.

If your entire business rely on free traffic and can't survive if you now have to pay for advertising then I am sorry for you as I think it's a very unsecure road to be on. At least, what I would do is to try and find as many free trafic souces as possible so no single source can kill me if I loose it. Relying entirely on Googles free traffic is just not safe ...
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Old 05-22-2005   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcia
Getting back on topic (hint), there's little we can do or find out specifically without actually seeing a particular site and checking it out. But we can try to brainstorm and dig around, and try to come up with some ideas and clues. Let's check out a couple of points:

1. Clint, you say you have several sites. Are the others on the same topic or subject matter, and is there any chance of getting hit for duplicate content? And are they easy to discover through a lot of cross-linking between or among them?

2. There have been problems with sites being hijacked and scraped. Isn't it possible that the site's been hijacked with a 302 or that someone swiped the content and duplicated it elsewhere - and you got hit for that reason?
Yeah I certainly AGREE with "getting back on topic"!! It's a shame some others don't see it that way, thank you.

I believe I mentioned that the two sites that were "trashed" deal in computer hardware and custom built computers, and the other 3 are domain names for sale. My main site that's been up for many years, that was on top; deals with computer hardware sales (and custom built computers), consumer electronics sales, and several pages regarding electronics repair tech's, and two links pages. The site is about 120 pages in size. The other site is only about 5 months or so old, it's solely custom built computers, and it's a completely different domain name. It's just a main page, and two links pages. Now its index page is pretty much duplicate content as found at some pages on my main site, but that shouldn't matter since it's a completely different domain name. (I see duplicate text indexed all the time @Google, on the first page of results). It never has showed well in Google, but it still was at least showing well for a few specific terms in quotes, so I new it was there. But it too has been removed--as neither now show up for ANY search terms. These two sites are on the same server.

As for the other 3 sites, two of them are on the same server as the two above, 1 is not, and all of these 3 are unaffected. These 3 sites have been up for several years. They are just a cover index page stating the domain is for sale, with some links pages. At two of them there is some duplicate text, and the links pages are the same. (When I exchange links with others, I put their links at all of my sites as do they).

Yes, all of my sites are linked to one another, is that bad? They've been that way since they were created, for years (except for that one new one of course). My main is linked to the other sites in a few places: On the links page (all 4 of the others); on a page where I have domain names for sale (those 3 for which I have webpages); and in the case of the newest custom PC site it is linked from my main site on a few pages regarding more info on custom PC's.

The custom PC site is linked to all of the others via the links page, and is linked to my main site from its index page as being the "main website", and for ordering info, order tracking, etc., these links all go to my main site.

The other 3 sites are linked from their index page to my main site as being "maintained by......", that sort of thing. Their links pages are also linked to each of the other sites.

I don't know how I would find out about any hijacking or being scraped. I could check those that are linked to me to see if they are linking using some kind of 302 script to steal status or popularity, but I only have my list of link exchanges that I KNOW about where I can refer to that. There are many more....but as I indicated earlier, something is wrong with Google's "link:whatever.com" command and I can't use that to find out who's linking to me.
Thank you.
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Old 05-22-2005   #18
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Hmm...

*They are just a cover index page stating the domain is for sale, with some links pages.*
*Yes, all of my sites are linked to one another, is that bad?*
*Their links pages are also linked to each of the other sites.*
*At two of them there is some duplicate text, and the links pages are the same*

NOT looking good Clint.....
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Old 05-22-2005   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikkel deMib Svendsen
I don't understand your goal ...
Well, my "goal" is to get things back the way they were day before yesterday! ;-)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikkel deMib Svendsen
You need to understand that there is noone in here, not even the most experienced experts, that can magically get you into Google again over night.
I am well aware of that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikkel deMib Svendsen
All we can do is offer to share the experience we have had with similar situations - and thats what most posters have been trying to do. What is it you want us to say?
Of this I am also aware. Some posters have indeed done this of which I'm very appreciative, however a few have not. What do I want to hear? Well, what happened would be great. ;-) I'm still waiting to find out if there were massive changes overnight the 20th-21st, and if so, why no one that I know about was affected. I'm also waiting to hear if anyone could have done this to me by doing something to Google, like submitting my URL's thousands of times, or by some other "hacking" of some kind.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikkel deMib Svendsen
The best advice you've been given so far is to ...

a) Take it easy - I think most will agree that durring an update sites can drop out but often get back in in a matter of days. Accept it.
If we can determine that this IS INDEED an "update", then I have no other choice. I mentioned earlier that in that horror of "Nov. '03 Florida" something SIMILAR happened, but I was not removed then, I was knocked back by many pages. It took almost a YEAR to get back after that, of which during that time I had to be hospitalized due to stress. I've never recovered from that--neither business wise nor physically and probably not mentally as well.

My instinct and suspicion tells me it goes way beyond any "Google update". I've gotten many many criminals removed from the net and their ISP's for their crimes, scams, UCE attacks, etc., and although I make it a point to fully protect my anonymity, one of these slimeballs could have found out and this is their retaliation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikkel deMib Svendsen
b) Start building some alternative marketing channels - putting all (or most of) you eggs in one basket is too dangerous. Paid placement is what most people in here use as a direct "Google or Yahoo backup". In addition most companies also do PR (Public Relations) and traditional (off line or online) advertising. The key is to not rely entirely on one marketing channel.

Personally I don't like to have much more than 10-20% of the traffic coming from organic results. It have to be low enough for me (or my clients) to survive if they are one day dumped from the index.

If your entire business rely on free traffic and can't survive if you now have to pay for advertising then I am sorry for you as I think it's a very unsecure road to be on. At least, what I would do is to try and find as many free trafic souces as possible so no single source can kill me if I loose it. Relying entirely on Googles free traffic is just not safe ...
I cannot afford any "advertising". :-( I have perfect PR, top ratings at all ratings websites that will list me. I understand what you're saying Mikkel, but the bottom line here is the popularity of Google. 85% use Google. (USA stats, I don't know what it is worldwide). The word "Google" has even become part of the language. When someone needs to buy something that cannot be found locally or is too expensive locally, what do they do? They go to Google. That of course includes those wanting new computers, upgrades, consumer electronics, and the like. If I'm not in Google, I don't exist to 85% of computer users. It's logical to conclude that would translate into an ~85% reduction in sales & income, something with which I cannot live.
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Old 05-22-2005   #20
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Clint-

Dude, if you rely solely off the Internet for income then you need to ensure you diversify and save. This way you don't have to put the gun in your mouth...... or was it to your head. Whatever you know what I'm saying.

Anyway......

You need to get to work. This 7 days a week and 12 hours a day crap was not on SEO. I check two of your sites one of which ranks #6 for CBC and you have about 100 links for each..... maybe just a hair more. Dude get to work on SEO. Google is in the process of updating and you are being left behind. Your site that starts with "O" badly needs you to work on links and anchor text.

Last edited by dannysullivan : 05-23-2005 at 08:10 AM.
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