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Old 06-30-2004   #1
NFFC
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The word I hate the most is...

...organic

Everytime I see it used in relation to search it makes me scream [out loud].

Words are very powerful things, I'm not happy with the use of "organic" in the search context, they are just the normal search results.

Everytime its used it devalues the SEO art, its a drip drip attack on our core values.

Orgainic belongs to the vegtables not to SEO's.
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Old 06-30-2004   #2
rcjordan
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organic, organic, organic
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Old 06-30-2004   #3
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How about "natural" or "editorial" or "original" or even "those thingees on the left side of your screen"? LOL
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Old 06-30-2004   #4
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I hate it too. "Editorial results" would be better. Nothing organic about those algorithms.
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Old 06-30-2004   #5
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>How about "natural" or "editorial" or "original" or even "those thingees on the left side of your screen"? LOL

It's the other stuff that needs names.
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Old 06-30-2004   #6
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Think of it this way. Computer algorithms are not considered "organic".

Kind of life like. It is not a matter of not 'liking it' but more a matter of 'what has this world come to'.

Don't you think this is a bit scary. Considering an equation as organic or natural?
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Old 06-30-2004   #7
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To me, organic simply means "naturally" growing results from SEO, it helps separate the idea of an all PPC and Paid Inclusion campaign for clients. Natural results basically means the same thing as organic.

PS: Hi RC...

Last edited by Daria_Goetsch : 06-30-2004 at 03:07 PM. Reason: Added comment
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Old 06-30-2004   #8
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I've always preferred saying "editorial" versus "paid," because I think it resonates with the idea that there is some parts of the search results that show up because the search engine, in whatever way, thinks they should be provided as editorial content.

I haven't minded the word organic, however. I've seen some people respond to it a bit better than natural. I do like the idea that it suggests there's some traffic you can get through natural or almost effortless work.

I know, I know -- it's not effortless for many SEO professionals. But consider some people who don't live and breathe this. A web designer, for example. It still is the case that they can make relatively simple changes and get rewarded with better listings, such as just making sure those title tags are unique and descriptive.

The word I hate is algorithmic. I feel that's being forced down our throats by the financial community. It gets used as a synonym for crawler-based, when even human-based listings use some type of algorithm to sort the end product.
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Old 06-30-2004   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dannysullivan
The word I hate is algorithmic. I feel that's being forced down our throats by the financial community. It gets used as a synonym for crawler-based, when even human-based listings use some type of algorithm to sort the end product.
But in reality, that is what it is, "algorithmic". The only reason page A ranks above page B, is because an algorithm decides so.

Humans programmed the algorithm, and it is suppose to be as human-like as possible but in reality all it is, is an algorithm.

Calling it natural or organic (when I think of it) really makes my skin crawl. Makes me think that AI (artificial intelligence) will take over. Ever see the terminator movies? Maybe I am way off track here.
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Old 07-01-2004   #10
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Algorithmic really is closer to being accurate because they're generated via an algorithm. Natural isn't too bad because it's a natural result of algorithmic processing, but organic makes me think of body parts, organs like the liver or spleen - or worse yet, like what they take from you at the doctors office to do laboratory tests on.
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Old 07-01-2004   #11
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"organic" . . . . . . . . . sounds like something my wife would pick up at Wholefoods Market

(((Cash Register #2 needs a price check for "search results" on isle 7 please)))

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Old 07-01-2004   #12
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Regular SERPs versus paid SERPs or paid listings
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Old 07-02-2004   #13
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>>sounds like something my wife would pick up at Wholefoods Market

Right - kind of like beef lips or cheeks from cows raised on organic feed.
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Old 07-02-2004   #14
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Quote:
But in reality, that is what it is, "algorithmic". The only reason page A ranks above page B, is because an algorithm decides so.
Yes, but then paid listings are algorithmic. After all, at Google, you've got an algorithm looking at clickthrough rate, bid price, terms targeted and so on. Overture is less complicated, but there's some processing happening there, as well.

I guess I hate the use of the word "algorithmic" results because when the financial community uses it, they imply that every search engine must have a crawler. In reality, it doesn't matter how your search engine gets its listings. But to be a major, general purpose search engine, your users will expect you to offer some type of editorial results -- some results you are showing because you think they are the best answer to a query, not because they are paid.
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Old 07-02-2004   #15
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I think many of us have to contend with misnomers in the industry (industries), particularly as terms seem to be made up as we go.

As we likely all know, SERPs -- "organic" or not -- seem to be misunderstood by the non-industry public in the way that Danny has delineated: simply as some kind of evaluation by the search engines as to what's best, most relevant, etc. That is, as if the search engines were manually selecting the search results.

Goes hand in hand with the industry term for those of us who do market research and analysis, design and build websites, and optimize them ... well, we're "web designers". Just like anyone who buys a Windows machine and finds the pre-installed FrontPage Lite, or whatever it's called. Luckily, we're long past the time when that was much of an issue.

Calling the bundled set of services that some of us provide "holistic web design" just doesn't cut it with the general public; the term means nothing to them. Again, luckily, nowadays more prospective clients have an idea of the kinds of services that are needed beyond slapping together some HTML; it's a pleasure to come across these more savvy folk.

Holistic web design. It's back to Whole Foods Market, or your local alternative health care person.
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Old 07-02-2004   #16
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I like 'organic' but have never 'optimized' a search engine
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Old 07-02-2004   #17
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Optimize a search engine? I've done that Few years ago, cobbled together some perl scripts to make a "slightly less bad" crawler.

Learned why I prefer optimizing websites instead of those organic listings or the algorithmic section of the SERP - building the complicated series of components that make up a search engine is tough.

Anyway, "organic" is on the peeve list now, eh? Personally, I've always found that 'search results' is the best term, as eventually consumers *must* be able to tell which results are the search results however the engine gets at them, and which is the advertisement section that folks know are paid listings.

In magazines, when was the last time in the US that a print rag showed an ad without some kind of mark? Sure, it may be subtle, but it's there.

I'll just keep calling them the search results myself, and then provide explanation when their eyes glaze over. At some point, if they've not heard how search engines work before, a person's eyes will always glaze over after hearing an explanation of crawling, indexing, etc.
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Old 07-04-2004   #18
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The public

The way the public would understand it is by calling them regular search results and paid results.
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Old 07-05-2004   #19
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I do not waste too much of my time hating anything - especially not very little important things such as a word: "Organic"

No matter what term we chose to use it will require some additional explanation before normal (not search geeks) understand it.

For several years, back in the late 90's when I was managing a large search engine in Scandinavia, I tried very hard to tech people just the basic difference between directory results and crawler based results. Only so few understood it that I gave up.

I think "Organic" is a good headline for what some might call algoritmic in some situarions and editorial in others. Organic, is to me, a word that pretty well descripe the non-commercial nature of listings we are talking about. Listings that got their rankings based on quality and relevancy rather than money.

I have gone through many terms in my time in this business. Personally I feel that it has become much easier to communicate the issues with potential clients and the public in general after I started using Organic as a term.

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Old 07-05-2004   #20
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> especially not very little important things such as a word: "Organic"

I hate quoting myself but..."Words are very powerful things".

I know we are in the padded room but the subject has a very serious undertone. In effect I am asking who do we allow to define the space that webmaster/SEO's operate in?

Is it the latest SEM trade club, large scale SEM companies, marketing agencies and maybe even forum owners?

I'm saying no to that.

Imho the power to shape our trade lies with the independent webmaster/SEO, to us what you would refer to as "organic" results are just results, they don't need a special name. Its_the_other_stuff_that_needs_a_name.

If people are struggling to explain concepts to clients let them deal with it in whatever way they see fit, use whatever words you want as far as I'm concerned. But lets not see that need move over into the "real" world and corrupt the facts.
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