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Old 02-02-2005   #1
Chris Sherman
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Local Search: Options & Tactics

What's going on with local search? In today's SearchDay article, Meet the Local Search Engines, guest writer Shari Thurow reports on a panel at SES Chicago where executives from Overture/Yahoo, Ask Jeeves and AOL talked about their local search services, and the opportunities for search marketers to capture the attention of searchers looking for local merchants and services.

Comments welcome!
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Old 02-02-2005   #2
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I've been following the "local search" discussion for a few months and started a Blog:

http://localsearchideas.blogspot.com

The purpose of my blog was to identify how small businesses could take advantage of "local search" to gain new customers. I have to admit that I was a bit unfocused in my reporting, but today I started doing my own "real world" experiments to see which players were really returning valuable information to people looking for local services. I started today with Google and came away disallusioned and disappointed in the results I received.

I really would be interested in what experienced Search Engine experts around this forum think about my findings. I'd welcome your comments on my Blog and hopefully they might give me some new insights and different directions to explore.
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Old 02-14-2005   #3
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Local search without local address

I have an unique situation where I need to attract visitors from very specific locations to my website. But I do not have a local address. Rather my website refers visitors to local businesses that can provide them with the services they are seeking. I have had success using the geographic targeting feature on Google Adwords, but not sure what other search engines can provide additional geo-targeted traffic. Any suggestions?
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Old 02-14-2005   #4
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I came across a review of a few other PPC (Pay Per Click) services that allow for location targeted campaigns. I haven't tried these myself and would be interested in the comments of anyone who has.

Here's the link on my Blog:

http://localsearchideas.blogspot.com...vertising.html
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Old 02-14-2005   #5
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Might help

Local Search Pay Per Click Advertising: What Are Your Options?
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Old 02-16-2005   #6
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I've Done Some Local Search

When I first moved in the area, I did local search without all the buzz on local searches - and I didnt know about the whole thing or too much about this industry. I was looking for a local church. So I typed in words I thought was related - church, my town, state.

I got some results - but most were not too interesting. The thing that made it worse was that when I saw a listing on a directory - there would be no other information. many of the churches didnt have websites. They had a number and address. Well that wasnt good enough for me; I wanted to read what their statement of faith was about - see a little more. Consequently, the few churches with websites were the only ones I investigated.

The lesson? Try it yourself. Finding the right church can be a very picky thing. You have to be comfortable there, see a fit for you there, see growth, see ministries that can help you, etc. Applied to a business, can't you imagine that local customers would be pretty picky - over some thing - about who they deal with? How about a local gym? Or a local beauty consultant? Or a hair salon? Sure a lot of these businesses get business by WOM and local promotions and advertising. But imagine someone new to the area and wanting that information. How about a local martial arts school?

Part of my philosophy/POV on websites is that websites are like live brochures. So a local business with a website can put their creatives in their website or develop their creatives from their website design.

There's continuity in that and makes it easier for them to put stuff together - kinda like interchangeable parts.

I put in basic information that any brochure would want to put - contact, hours, location, etc. Just like regular search, I analyze what potential customers are looking for. For example, what is the broad business that the website is for? Dentist? How about Dentist in Boston? Go from there and be as specific as possible.

I did this approach for a client's website. I didnt expect this to happen this quickly, but within maybe 2 months or less than 1, the site was indexed AND ranked. For the keywords I was looking for, - ranking in top 10 (all of them) for Yahoo. Top 30 for Google.

Still not done yet - but for me and for the client, the keywords and her ranking means that she'll get traffic from folks outside of her WOM network. It also means that her WOM network has an extra tool to help her business because instead of a name and phone, her network can spit out a web address.

I think Local search let's us get incredibly detailed and specific, without overemphasizing anything or being superfluous. So my experience has been very good so far.
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Old 02-16-2005   #7
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Cryptblade, in your example of your client, the dentist I take it you are talking about optimizing for the normal Google and Yahoo searches and not specifically for the new "local search" tabs?

How do you see your overall strategy affected by an actual seperate local search feature? (if at all)

I mean how does a dentist for example get his/her listing to stand out in the local search results? (other than perhaps buying a sponsored listing)
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Old 02-17-2005   #8
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Jimh...

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimh
Cryptblade, in your example of your client, the dentist I take it you are talking about optimizing for the normal Google and Yahoo searches and not specifically for the new "local search" tabs?
Yes, I did normal, natural optimization just for the site. I looked at both user and SE, but I took user first. I wanted the user to have a good experience. This makes sense because i view the site as an online brochure. So it had to work naturally. With some design and copy schemes, I was able to create a clean, useable site that contained the optimization that I created. So after all was said and done, the results I got were for natural search, not local search. Again, as I said in the last post, I searched locally before the local searches rolled out. So I drew on that experience.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimh
How do you see your overall strategy affected by an actual seperate local search feature? (if at all)
Not much more affected. If you look at Google's Local FAQ..or that info section, it answers how they rank a given local search because some listings are further away than others that are ranked lower. They still rank within the local listings based on "relevancy". So with that in mind, the copy still needs to be informative. But your SEO creative magic takes over from there. How you implement the geographic information is up to you. Like I said above, my strategy was based on my experience in searching for geographic specific info, but not having used any local searches.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimh
I mean how does a dentist for example get his/her listing to stand out in the local search results? (other than perhaps buying a sponsored listing)
absolutely buying it helps. but they would need to be dedicated to using their website! I mean, the cost! I would even argue - if they are serious - to incorporate pay-per-call. but for natural search - same thing as you would with any natural search. Think keywords. I would argue that for local search, you can afford to use general keywords. I mean, it makes sense - think like a searcher. When I was looking for a nearby church, I typed [church, my area, state]. Try it with church, zip code. Try it with auto shop, pizza, subs, donuts, day care. Try any of that - just to get an idea of how someone would search for your client.

I believe one guy- I forget the thread - wrote about his website, and how he targeted some area of South Carolina. You can get ideas there. I think good practice is to look at travel sites. Specific spots and how the results you get attract you. That's where I would do some research.
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Old 02-17-2005   #9
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Hey Jimh,

As I look into local search more, what you wrote - local search for small businesses - we're pretty much in the same boat. I dont see how national businesses are going to benefit from local search. It would be more advertising cost for them. They already have economy of scale with national advertising. I see their ads in local searches though. Check competitive industries like mortgage - and the paid listing are all big national companies. But the local search listings are mostly individual brokerages with physical offices.

The real value in search, my opinion, is for local businesses - which are generally small businesses.

I mean, just try using local search yourself. The best is to search for restaurants. Try Pizza. Try specialty like Asian, or Chinese, or Indian, Vietnamese,.. Jamaican or Soul Food (I'm in Philly, I like those spots). I think if you try local search yourself, you can see that most of the local searches will be for stuff like that: restaurants, specialty groceries, stores or places that. The point is, the searcher is EXPECTING a physical location.

I think that because as a local search user, that's how I think. I expect to have a physical location if I type in "barber, philadelphia". Big companies will do will if they do local search in terms of ensuring their franchisees or affiliates are well represented in searches. Like KFC should be sure their franchises are all listed if some one typed in KFC, Philadelphia.

But this wouldn't work for big national companies with no localized offices like geico - which, if I'm not mistaken, does NOT have localized offices.

I like local searches for the small businesses. A tiny little microcosm of the big search - and most likely free of the spam. Yahoo's local is like part directory, part search, and part forum. That may actually help out local search more and keep it honest.
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Old 02-18-2005   #10
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Local Search has arrived!

It's great to see that "local search" is now receiving the attention it deserves. It's functional, it's scalable, and most importantly, it can be effectivly sold to SME's!

Thanks in large part to the accountability new technology provides, the "mystery" behind IYP and PPC advertising can been minimized. Local businesses, and in paticular local yellow page advertisers understand the power of their visibility online - click AND call tracking provide the assurance that campaigns are effective.

I'd like to ask this forum the following:
Local search is here, but who's in the best position to market it? All this technology is great but if the SME's don't embrace the product/media, it's as good as dead. Will Yahoo! or Google develop organic sales teams, or will partnering be the fastest way to get traction? Where do Yellow Pages or newspaper publishers, and those who already own the local relationships fit in?

This weeks announcement: http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/050207/nym091_1.html
demonstrates some of the first efforts in brining local IYP and PPC to the masses.

Comments?
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Old 02-18-2005   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shredhead
Local search is here, but who's in the best position to market it? All this technology is great but if the SME's don't embrace the product/media, it's as good as dead. Will Yahoo! or Google develop organic sales teams, or will partnering be the fastest way to get traction? Where do Yellow Pages or newspaper publishers, and those who already own the local relationships fit in?
Don't know who's in the best position. I think, personally, the small SEO/web-marketing guy is in the best position. I think of local search for small businesses as all small businesses. That includes sole proprietors. Unlese these guys are doing great, I don't think they'll need the complex pay-per-click and other solutions.

I mean, I think of myself as a user first, and how I use local search. If I'm looking for something locally, my expectation is that the business has a physical location nearby. They may be located a few towns over. What would be the closer for me to go with that company vs. a competitor that is closer to me, is if the company has a website and if the website is impressive enough to me for me to do business with them.

Let's say I'm looking for a plastic surgeon (highly searched). I want a plastic surgeon nearby. I'm not going to look for plastic surgeon new jersey (I'm in NJ, Philly area). I also won't look for plastic surgeon pennsylvania. Why?

Both states are too big for me to want to travel that far for a plastic surgeon. I want a plastic surgeon near me.

So I will actually search plastic surgeon philadelphia. But what I'm searching for is how much can I trust these guys by looking at their knowledge and certifications (available on their website). If I dont find a website, or if their website doesnt have that info, then I'm less likely to look into them - after all, I have no basis to trust them!

So as a user, this is the kind of thinking I go through. Now this is actually me putting some serious thought into a local search. What's the average user going to use local search for? Restaurant? Dry cleaner? Pizza? Subs? Chinese? Sushi? Mechanic? Brakes? Oil Change? Car wash? karate?..... Just think about it. I imagine most local searches would be like that - and with the expectation of a physical locale.

Which then leads me to think that local search isn't about a big national company increasing advertising targeted more locally. I suspect some web marketers are wrongly thinking and salivating over this possibility and trying to see where they can capitalize and everything. I'm not so sure that's the case. In fact, that might be the case for few local businesses ready to move to another level - but like most local businesses, most local search will not be sophisticated.

Here's an article on local search and how local search and how Yellow Pages, even online are used more than SEs .

I think, the thing is, unless the local business is already doing very well and already recognize or benefit from the Internet, local advertising is probably going to benefit the most by natural search, using or incorporating localized information into the content.

one flaw i found with local search advertising is relevancy - on yahoo. I did a search for soul food restaurants near my zip code and filtered it by distance. the closest one i got - was a polish restaurant. Now you know that' s a turnoff completely.

I just dont see local search getting as "complex" as the more macro-search marketing/advertising industry. Even pay-per-call is suspect unless it's for something like - orders for take out, ordering flowers, buying furniture, or something like that. But I can't imagin a dry cleaner needing to pay for pay-per-call, and certainly, almost none of them really need PPClick advertising.

Anyone else agree or disagree? If you disagree, please share where you see the possibilities.
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Old 02-19-2005   #12
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We have a local business that has done very well with local search over the last 2 years since we started optimizing the site. Prior to that we had not touched our site for 5 years since it was originally launched.

In the last 2 years traffic has tripled and conversions have doubled. The increase has come through placing dramatically higher on generic terms (non-local) and because of that local. (If I was starting today with what I currently know, I would focus almost exclusively on local optimization.)

We pay for yellow pages and some other local advertising and are found in local google and local yahoo (G and Y comprise 85% of our search traffic). Regardless customers find us through variations on our local terms.

Our region is the Washington DC region so we optimize for Maryland, MD, Virginia, Va, Washington, DC and Washington DC. We even mention towns in the region in a variety of content formats so that our business is found using terms like Springfield, Bethesda, etc.

BTW we are well optimized for our main generic (non-local) terms in G, Y, and MSN, being first page for many variations on our main phrase. Regardless even as searches for generic terms for our business outnumber local versions of the various keyword phrases by a factor of about 3 to 2 conversions are roughly 4 times as high for local searches rather than generic searches.

While local google, yahoo, the yellow pages etc are all rushing to earn more through local search...without a doubt simple optimizing locally has done wonders for us.

As was mentioned above, a local web site is like a brochure for your local business. Prepare a descriptive site and optimize well and the traffic and conversions can be strong.

Dave
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Old 02-24-2005   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cryptblade
Let's say I'm looking for a plastic surgeon (highly searched). I want a plastic surgeon nearby. I'm not going to look for plastic surgeon new jersey (I'm in NJ, Philly area). I also won't look for plastic surgeon pennsylvania. Why?

Both states are too big for me to want to travel that far for a plastic surgeon. I want a plastic surgeon near me.

So I will actually search plastic surgeon philadelphia.
Actually, our service is precisely for plastic surgeons. And this is what we found:
On Google, if we ran a national campaign (not geographically restricted) that included the names of cities in the keywords, we got a lot less traffic than if we ran a geographically restricted campaign, omitted the cities from the keywords, and instead included the name of a major metropolitan area in the ad copy. So contrary to popular logic, people don't search "plastic surgeon philadelphia." They search "plastic surgeon."
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Old 02-24-2005   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danielanaidu
Actually, our service is precisely for plastic surgeons. And this is what we found:
On Google, if we ran a national campaign (not geographically restricted) that included the names of cities in the keywords, we got a lot less traffic than if we ran a geographically restricted campaign, omitted the cities from the keywords, and instead included the name of a major metropolitan area in the ad copy. So contrary to popular logic, people don't search "plastic surgeon philadelphia." They search "plastic surgeon."
I think you and I are talking about different things. My experience has been natural search. It sounds like you're doing paid search. I see local search as more than just the paid local search.

My personal experience was with looking for a church. I did a search for "church, town, state". I also use the Yahoo & Google local search - in particular to find good pizza and cheesesteak places. In Google it says they look at your site to determine relevancy when you do a local search - within local search.

So what you are saying is interesting from a paid local search perspective, definitely something to keep in mind, but it doesnt sound like you are doing any natural local search marketing/optimization - which was what I was talking about.

But in sticking with your experience, I think that's something not yet covered on this thread - someone with experience running a geographically limited campaign. I think what you experienced made sense. If you limit your advertising geographical area - instead of a national compaign that included everything - then it makes you seem more focused, perhaps. People are probably just looking at plastic surgeon and you served up not only plastic surgeon, but "philadelphia" plastic surgeon - without them having to think about it and type it themselves - it seems like you just served up for the searcher what he was looking for.

I think that's interesting and even goes with what I said earlier - that the basic keywords in local search - natural and paid - are important, not the more complex search terms necessary in national or non-geographically-limited searches.

Thanks for sharing that Daniel!
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Old 02-28-2005   #15
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IMHO some topics are more naturally local than others. People looking for plastic surgery might be inclined to travel further, and specifically out of their geographic region than searching for a local church or even more locally a pizza parlor.

If I lived in and around Los Angelos I'd guess that there are lots of plastic surgeons in the area and would probably be inclined to search on a local basis, either using local search or adding the phrase Los Angelos to plastic surgeon. If I lived in an area with less medical help or if I felt or knew there weren't many plastic surgeons in the area I might search on a national basis.

If I were searching for top quality universities to study applied physics I'd probably search for something like "applied physics university programs". If I wanted to learn a skill like automobile repair I'd probably search within my metropolitan region.

Dave
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Old 05-02-2005   #16
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Is it just my imagination or is the hype surrounding Local Search dying down a bit. I mean it seems that there were announcements on a daily basis for awhile concerning the advancements in local search and mapping etc.

I haven't seen the interest lately that was exhibited just a few months ago. Maybe, like me people have tried it ... found it lacking and just put it out of their minds.
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Old 05-02-2005   #17
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nope, no way!

Hotter than ever. Consider the following:

1.Transwestern Yellow Pages, a 15 year old local/independent publisher is reportedly courting several huge offers, including Yellow Book USA and believe it or not, IAC! Rumor has is 5-7X earnings, minimum.

2. Today, Dex Yellow Pages announced a new partnership with Yahoo! Local, further morphing the lines between on and offline local search. Their advertisers will receive enhanced distribution on the Dex IYP as well as Yahoo! Yellow Pages and Yahoo! Local [note: Ambassador has taken this "package" approach for 3 years; www.AmbassadorYellowPages.com).

3. ReachLocal, a PPC SEM firm specializing in getting local businesses online via web based search just received 7 3/4 mm in v.c. last month.

4. YellowPages.com moving forward - I'm sure there will be major announcements/improvements in distro. channels and marketing (as outlined by Dennis Payne during last weeks Simba webinar) before October's re-launch....it's a 100 mm investment!

5. Additional relevant info. at: http://www.localsearchsolutions.com/news.aspx

In a nutshell: the Yahoo! local and Google local announcements have been relatively quiet this month - but only due to the flurry of activity and improvements last quarter. It's a great time to be in this industry!
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Old 05-02-2005   #18
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I wouldnt say local search is hotter than ever, even with the news that Shredhead mentioned. But Local Search isn't going away. I think some of the "disappointments" about it that I've read are either blown out of proportion or some people simply had a different (perhaps wrong) perception of what local search is about.

I think recently - in the last 3 weeks - there was a report out that YellowPages was beating search engines for "local search" and how it was a shorter click for local searches on these directory pages.

But I didnt see anything about the methodology of this report. I seriously question if there is a clear understanding of what "local search" means. The local search in Google and Yahoo try to mirror the phone directories, online. Those same directories have online databases.

If someone uses the search engines to search for something locally, what are they looking for? I would think presumably they are looking for local places with websites to tell them more.

I take myself as an example. When I first moved to the my area, I started a look for a nearby church. I used the search engines and typed "church, new jersey" as a starting point. This is what I consider "local search" - it is very geographically relevant.

I don't know what other people think, if they have it confused with something else or what. In my opinion, local search is a wonderful market - for those who want to focus on small businesses. My focus is on small businesses. I believe small, local businesses can use websites as a mobile marketing platform to communicate to new customers and to maintain contact with existing customers.

I'm in my 20's and one of the first things I do is look online for information. I believe a serious business ought to have a website. It is a mobile, dynamic brochure of the business. What is the this business about? What's the address again? What's the phone number? How did the business start? All of this information either gives me information that I want, or gives me more confidence to do business with this company.

I think maybe some folks thought that local search would be the next big wave of online advertising - that local merchants would want to spend big money on local search - like pay-per-call or sponsored local listings. I think that was what marked the initial disappointment voiced in some circles.

But I think that is DUMB. I mean seriously stupid. Local search is more than that.

The next big thing for local search is greater integration with mobile search & SMS search. Google SMS and several other SMS information (SMS 411) services can really be useful. The youth of the market love text messaging. 411 SMS services need to improve and become more ubiquitous. When that happens, it becomes more valuable for local search - paid or natural - to be listed in the top 3 on SMS 411 inqueries. Plus, once websites can ubiquitously send pages or information by SMS & mobile web, local search will be even more important.

Local search is still rather infant - which is perfect because I see no need to mess up a good thing. National and global search is already messed up beyond belief. I say keep some part of search unadulterated a little while longer.
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Old 05-08-2005   #19
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Just looked at 5 months data on my site.

We are highly ranked for virtually all local terms in G, Y, and MSN. We are also highly ranked for the same terms (non-local)

Variations on our main search phrase(s) with a local phrase found us almost 30 times more than through local google. Of interest local yellow pages and local google had roughly the same volume of traffic. Didn't look at Y or MSN, where we can also be found on local engines.

I think it will be some time before any of the local efforts replace natural search with a local description on it.

Dave
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