Rise and Fall of Generic Directories

[Dave Hawley]

I believe that generic directories do not serve any purpose to the average Joe. While I have submmited and been included in many directories, I notice the traffic from them is constantly getting less (nearly non-existent), while SE traffic is ever increasing. It seems to me that directories have passed their use-by-date as SEs are now so good at returning relevant results. I simply cannot think of any reason why a user (not webmaters or SE) would even use them.

My thoughts are that these generic directories (most) only exist to mainly serve Webmasters and SEOs. Some new PFI directories have spent BIG $$ obtaining PageRank and are now nothing more than PR sellers.

I would bet that Google will take action on this some time soon to protect its highly valued PageRank and ensure directories cannot manipulate their SERPs.

What are the thoughts of others on this?

[fathom]

Originally Posted by Dave Hawley

I believe that generic directories do not serve any purpose to the average Joe. While I have submmited and been included in many directories, I notice the traffic from them is constantly getting less (nearly non-existent), while SE traffic is ever increasing. It seems to me that directories have passed their use-by-date as SEs are now so good at returning relevant results. I simply cannot think of any reason why a user (not webmaters or SE) would even use them.

My thoughts are that these generic directories (most) only exist to mainly serve Webmasters and SEOs. Some new PFI directories have spent BIG $$ obtaining PageRank and are now nothing more than PR sellers.

I would bet that Google will take action on this some time soon to protect its highly valued PageRank and ensure directories cannot manipulate their SERPs.

What are the thoughts of others on this?

So is this a 'link removal request'!

While 'sales' referral potential has certainly decrease, the fact that you go to, seek for the appropriate category, fill in the form, and depress submit means 'it is still useful to at least one person'... I wouldn't think you would waste time on things that are completely with merit.

SEs may decide someday that directories 'are the new guessbook'... but we shouldn't hold our breathe waiting - eh?

[seobook]

Originally Posted by fathom

SEs may decide someday that directories 'are the new guessbook'... but we shouldn't hold our breathe waiting - eh?

one day most all of todays common seo techniques will be less useful and perhaps useless. may as well stop doing any of them ... just so we are prepared

[Dave Hawley]

While 'sales' referral potential has certainly decrease, the fact that you go to, seek for the appropriate category, fill in the form, and depress submit means 'it is still useful to at least one person'... I wouldn't think you would waste time on things that are completely with merit.

Exactly! This is my whole point, they only exist for Webmaters and SEOs.

While I can see Google still rewarding links in some Directories, I cannot see them rewarding links in most directories. Perhaps they already have stopped passing PR from the vast majority?

[randfish]

I have to disagree completely:

I don't see my referral traffic from directories any lower than most of my other links of similiar stature - in fact, it's higher than most of the pages that link to my site.

Directories serve two great purposes:

1. Hand-reviewing of the web - it's a human being manually looking at a site, categorizing it properly and often issuing some information. I know at my directory, I hand-edit descriptions and give scores based on usability, speed of download & content quality. Other directories give other pieces of info about the site, like Uncover the Net, etc.

2. List of sites dealing specifically with a topic area. Directories themselves can be great search results - in my search topics 4 of the top ten results are basically directory listings (only 1 is an "official" directory), but these results are great for users who are searching for multiple vendors or providers of a service, etc.

It wouldn't make good sense to me at all for a search engine to discount links from directories. Despite their SEO intentions, they do provide a very valuable service that the search engines don't have the resources to do.

[Dave Hawley]

Ok but I don't subscribe to the "I don't see my referral traffic from directories any lower than most of my other links of similiar stature" as being any reason for Google not to see directories as manipulating their SERP's.

Most link pages from other sites have very low PR and do not charge to be included and only link to sites that are on-topic with the site. Also, the site itself doesn't exist for the sole reason of linking out.

Most directories, that charge, are relying heavily on PR of the category pages. In other words, there is a direct correlation between PR and the amount of submissions and the amount Webmasters are willing to pay.

If I were Google I would limit the passing of PR to a few "quality" freedirectories only. As Google state, PR is a unique democratic vote for a site. If they pass more PR to sites that can afford to buy it, then surely this is making a mockery of their PR?

I cannot see Google viewing "might as right" when they pride themsleves so much on not allowing $$ to influence their organic results. After all, it's one of the main reason they are number 1 and have been able to deliver, what is generally viewed as, the most relevant results of any SE.

IMO, having the $$ to buy PR will never make a page/site more relevant.

[searchengineblog.com]

I often use directories.

Sometimes the search results don't provide the answers, especially in the area of regional searches. It's about the quality of the content offered, not the form it's presented in. Replace the word "directories" with the word "blogs" - the same tired argument was being made last year.

Fact is, some directories are useless, others are great (www.dwoz.com/ , a webmaster directory, is a fav). Some blogs are rubbish, some are great. Some web sites are rubbish, some are great.

[searchengineblog.com]

If they pass more PR to sites that can afford to buy it, then surely this is making a mockery of their PR?

So why single out directories? Many sites feature text link advertising, including this one. So is SEW making a mockery of PR, too?

[Dave Hawley]

Replace the word "directories" with the word "blogs"

No. We are talking PFI generic directories only. If we follow that "tired" logic we can assume Google views all pages the same and it doesn't.

[Dave Hawley]

So why single out directories?

I'm not saying they do. PFI directories just happens to be the topic of this Thread.

[JohnW]

I would like to point out that the most widely known and valuable (not trying to start a debate on it's value) directory is DMOZ, and it's as generic as they get. I don't see the SEs viewing it as a SEO tool and I doubt that just because a directory is generic there will be a problem. On the other hand, if a directory is acting and looking like a blatant SEO tool and gets tagged as such by a SE, we all know what will likely happen then.

[searchengineblog.com]

My thoughts are that these generic directories (most) only exist to mainly serve Webmasters and SEOs. Some new PFI directories have spent BIG $$ obtaining PageRank and are now nothing more than PR sellers.

That might be true. However, the same could be said of any site. Perhaps any site that has high pagerank and has crawlable text links should be removed, just in case

I would bet that Google will take action on this some time soon to protect its highly valued PageRank and ensure directories cannot manipulate their SERPs.

I'm sure the search engines aren't keen on *any* site manipulating their serps.

[fathom]

Originally Posted by Dave Hawley

Exactly! This is my whole point, they only exist for Webmaters and SEOs.

While I can see Google still rewarding links in some Directories, I cannot see them rewarding links in most directories. Perhaps they already have stopped passing PR from the vast majority?

But isn't that a little shortsight... I mean who is your website for?

If you cater to only people needing excel assistance - does that suggest there is less of a need for you than a resource used by every webmaster of every website, in every industry, catering to every market?

'Don't link' is what your statement actually says because that is what directories are: an aggregation of links to other resources organized in some meaning fashion.

[Dave Hawley]

I would like to point out that the most widely known and valuable (not trying to start a debate on it's value) directory is DMOZ, and it's as generic as they get. I don't see the SEs viewing it as a SEO tool and I doubt that just because a directory is generic there will be a problem. On the other hand, if a directory is acting and looking like a blatant SEO tool and gets tagged as such by a SE, we all know what will likely happen then.

Yes, but DMOZ is not a PFI directory. I also stated that Google would likey pass PR from a few select "qaulity" directories.

Without naming directories, they are quite a few that have paid BIG $$ to obtain PR and now may have the ability to on-sell this PR (for a handsome profit) to millions of pages. Like I say, it is their sole reason for existence.

Surely people don't think Google wont sit on its hands over this and at least attempt to protect its business model?

[searchengineblog.com]

PFI directories

All directories are (effectively) PFI. It takes time to complete the form and chase the submission. If you don't place any value on your time, yes, I guess they're "free".

It costs money to run a quality directory, as it does any other site. The money must come from somewhere. In the case of DMOZ, it's Time Warner.

BTW: Google run Adsense on countless directories. Many directories make Google money.

[Dave Hawley]

But isn't that a little shortsight... I mean who is your website for?

No, on the contrary. Any site that exists to aid SEO & Webmasters obtain higher ranking via passing PR for $$ must be in Google 'watch list" at least.

'Don't link' is what your statement actually says because that is what directories are: an aggregation of link to other resources organized in some meaning fashion.

No not at all! Those being linked to will not be punished.

Let's put it this way. If it became a widely know undisputed fact that only a select few directories can pass PR, don't you think that most PFI directories would 'close shop', or at least stop charging? However, I doubt Google would make it a "widely know undisputed fact" as that would be a peek into their 'black box'. It's no skin of Google's nose if site "A" thinks $$ will buy him/her PR.

[JohnW]

>without naming directories, they are quite a few that have paid BIG $$ to obtain PR and now may have the ability to on-sell this PR (for a handsome profit)

Thats actually a different topic, i.e., the buying and selling of text links that point to the directory. As to the directories charging a small fee to review submitted content and verify it's relevance, I don't see that as selling linkpop, per se. If these folks can keep the spam out of their directory and at the same time perform at a higher level than DMOZ, maybe they will succeed in some areas where DMOZ has failed.


>widely know undisputed fact that only a select few directories can pass PR

I don't know about that....seems to me the people who decide if a directory can pass PR or not, are the operators of the directory. To the extent that there is PR to pass, IMO it will pass if the link is a legit link.

[searchengineblog.com]

I think directories, and other human-powered aggregation services, will see a new lease on life. Directory editors can mine the serps and pick out the gems in the rough, then categorise them appropriately. The search engines can then use this data as an additional form of cross-check.

The directories that provide quality, fresh citation will be valuable.

[Dave Hawley]

You don't think there is a direct correlation between PR and a PFI directories money making ability? IMO, this screams SERP manipulation as their intent.

Let's say there are only 1000 directory categories that a Webmaster, or SEO, is willing to pay $50.00 for inclusion. That would be $5000.00 spent. Do you think anywhere near the same amount would be spent if all these pages had no PR, or they knew Google was stopping them passing PR?

[searchengineblog.com]

I think your focus is too narrow (i.e. SEO). Isn't it just possible that some directories might be considering the bigger, wider world?

BTW:

screams SERP manipulation as their intent

That pretty much defines the entire SEO industry.