Keyword Stuffers - Is There Any Limit??

[margarita]

Originally Posted by JohnW

One last question - how is the keyphrase used in the title tags, are there stop words, is it the first words?

For both sites it is the first phrase.

[margarita]

Originally Posted by Marcia

Where have your rankings been (#1 for years?), and for how long? Where are you now and where are they now?

We have been number one for about 4 years. We are now in number two position, they are in number one.

Originally Posted by Marcia

Also: when did you first notice them for the search, where did they start ranking (1st page? 2nd page?), and how long has their site been online altogether, as far as you can tell? Check their whois, for one thing, and the internet archive, also.

I hadn't paid attention to them in the search, frankly, and just this week saw they had surpassed me. Their site has been online as long as ours, about 10 years. I knew of their existence but hadn't been concerned about the ranking. They were definitely in the top 10 for a while, that much I know.

[margarita]

Originally Posted by beu

When was the last time you updated content on your homepage and/or other pages?

I update it frequently - but at the very, very least, once per month.

Originally Posted by beu

Does your server support IF-Modified-Since?

I don't know what this is... do I need to know this?

Originally Posted by beu

Do you buy and/or sell links?

No.

Originally Posted by beu

Is your server in the same country as your target audience?

Yes.

Originally Posted by beu

Is your competitor using the target keyword/s in an H1,H2,H3?

No.

Originally Posted by beu

Who has a smaller page in terms of k?

Our site's home page is about half the size of theirs.

Originally Posted by beu

Does your site offer an xml sitemap and site map for users? (some issues to investigate)

Yes. We do both. They have a sitemap. Not sure if they do the Google xml sitemap but we do.

Originally Posted by beu

By the way, products like WebPosition Gold violate Google's terms of service.

Could I be penalized for using it? I don't use it often and haven't even updated the software in a couple of years.

[beu]

Originally Posted by Marcia

Why? Report them for what?

You are correct Marcia, there is obviously nothing to report in this case. My comment was to provide information on accessing the resource and not intended to mean there was anything to report. Sorry for not being more clear!

(On a side note, this post brings up an interesting point for another thread. I'm about to post my rational for what I said here in a new thread called "wasting resources to keep clients focused".)

[Marcia]

Let's just get this cleared up, lest anyone be misled.

stuffed 32 (yes 32) instances of this phrase into their home page.

I'm just checking some sites out in a few verticals and for one particular competitive search I checked, the #3 page returned has 58 (yes 58) instances of the main keyword (8% density), used in a whole boatload of highly relevant related 2 and 3 word phrases, on the page and sitewide and in relevant inbound links.

Of course they've beat us out for positioning.

No, not of course. That isn't at all the reason why.

What are my choices?

More keyword research, more content, deeper SEO knowledge. If someone assesses that keyword stuffing is what's getting someone high rankings, they've got some homework to do.

the same illegitimate and dirty practices

Google's algo doesn't agree with that assessment about the page and its practices.

they are using to beat them at their own game?

No, don't waste time worrying about how others are playing the game, apparently they're playing theirs just fine. Just take care of how you're playing your game.

[margarita]

Originally Posted by Marcia

More keyword research, more content, deeper SEO knowledge. If someone assesses that keyword stuffing is what's getting someone high rankings, they've got some homework to do.

Google's algo doesn't agree with that assessment about the page and its practices.

No, don't waste time worrying about how others are playing the game, apparently they're playing theirs just fine. Just take care of how you're playing your game.

After your previous posts and the suggestions from everyone else, I had to re-assess the situation. My SEO knowledge was way out of date and I took it for granted that we would maintain our top positioning after so long.

I spent a week working on content changes and additions to the home page, beefing up useful content and submitting it to Google Sitemaps, assessing the competition's sites, linkbacks and possible reasons for their position improvement above ours.

I discovered a lot of things. They were using duplicate content on other domain names, two of which are getting top 10 ranking. They have hundreds of splog posts creating tons of linkbacks from sources that might not be so credible. A lot of their links on their site have different names but many, many of them lead to pages with duplicate content designed solely for search engines. I don't think this contributes to the site's or the company's integrity.

As I don't want to use these kinds of tactics I instead concentrated on the fresh content and looking at new opportunities. We're now already back in position 1 with our sitelinks returned below our entry. We're starting an industry related content blog that will have good contributions from a lot of people in the company.

Thank you, everyone, for the great feedback and information - I have learned a LOT in this short time, have regained my search position and hope to keep it with legitimate content and link building.

[Marcia]

As I don't want to use these kinds of tactics I instead concentrated on the fresh content and looking at new opportunities. We're now already back in position 1 with our sitelinks returned below our entry. We're starting an industry related content blog that will have good contributions from a lot of people in the company.

Good for you for staying with the high road and working to improve, both for search and for visitors. And congratulations!

Also, thank you for the kind words and for staying with us and giving us feedback on your progress.

[beu]

Originally Posted by margarita

Thank you, everyone, for the great feedback and information - I have learned a LOT in this short time, have regained my search position and hope to keep it with legitimate content and link building.

We are here to help, congratulations margarita!