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Old 08-16-2007   #1
mphung
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Ranking for phrase but not keyword in phrase

I've just been asked to create a site that will get ranked for a phrase (let's say "acme gallery") but not for one of the terms in that phrase (in this case "acme"). Not that we're not targeting the single keyword, but that we actively want to avoid showing up for that keyword!

Anyone have experience getting a site to rank for "acme gallery" while at the same time preventing it from showing up for searches on "acme"? Keyword competition is such that I could easily see myself getting ranked for the phrase, but not without there being a very good chance that the site/page is also going to rank for the single word.

Anyone face any similar challenges?
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Old 08-22-2007   #2
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Re: Ranking for phrase but not keyword in phrase

Why on earth would you want to do this? Im just curious?
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Old 08-22-2007   #3
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Re: Ranking for phrase but not keyword in phrase

I realize it's somewhat odd. I guess a better example than "acme gallery" would be a phrase like "[brand name] defects" or "[brand name] recalls".

My client wants to make sure his point of view gets the #1 ranking for "acme defects" when someone is actively searching for that phrase, but wouldn't want anyone who's doing a search on "acme" to find a result with "acme defects" in the title.

Make more sense?
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Old 08-22-2007   #4
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Re: Ranking for phrase but not keyword in phrase

This is a new one for me to be honest and I am not sure if this is possible.

So basically you want #1 spot for "bmw defects" but you don't want your bmw defects page showing up in the results (anywhere) when someone searches for "bmw" right?
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Old 08-23-2007   #5
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Re: Ranking for phrase but not keyword in phrase

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Originally Posted by BuckfastMonk View Post
So basically you want #1 spot for "bmw defects" but you don't want your bmw defects page showing up in the results (anywhere) when someone searches for "bmw" right?
Yup, that's the idea.

I'm glad that I could ask something that hasn't been covered a zillion times before [no disrespect toward SEW intended, but hasn't the level of discussion on this board gotten really basic in the last year??].

I think I can do it - was just hoping someone else had done this before and had some good tips to share.
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Old 08-23-2007   #6
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Re: Ranking for phrase but not keyword in phrase

Not sure if it's possible not to show up for that keyword, at all (you could try some stuff, but I wouldnt do that b/c it'd be risky and thus you'd risk not showing up for the one you want to show up...).

But depending on the competitiveness of each keyword (phrase), it should be possible to get a page 1 ranking for the keyword phrase, but only show up on page 2 or 3 or so for the generic one-word keyword.

The more generic keyword is usually harder to rank for, thus once you reach a top10 ranking for the keyword phrase, you could still be far from ranking in the top10 for the broader keyword. I hope you get what Im trying to say? This depends on how much more competitive the generic keyword is, though.

This might sound less than satisfying, but keep in mind that a search result on the second page of Google usually has only around a CTR of 1-2%, thus 80-90% of the searchers will never see it if its on page 2. If it's on page 3 chances are close to nobody will see it.

You should also keep in mind, though that a #1 ranking (which gets around 30-40% of all clicks) might outweigh the benefit of not showing up for a certain keyword phrase BY FAR (these are only averages of course and it will depend a lot on the industry, but rank 5-10 usually all get less than 5% or so of the clicks...)

Just out of curiosity and b/c I didnt fully understand the purpose of this..has it got to do with branding? That the one search phrase would associate your client's brand with something negative in his industry (or at least in his opinion)?

Is it something as drastic as..for example having your site show up for "anti gay movement" but not wanting it to show up for "gay"?? lol

EDIT: This is just a random example Im not homophobe or anything..
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Old 08-23-2007   #7
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Re: Ranking for phrase but not keyword in phrase

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Originally Posted by NewKidOnTheBlock View Post
But depending on the competitiveness of each keyword (phrase), it should be possible to get a page 1 ranking for the keyword phrase, but only show up on page 2 or 3 or so for the generic one-word keyword. The more generic keyword is usually harder to rank for, thus once you reach a top10 ranking for the keyword phrase, you could still be far from ranking in the top10 for the broader keyword. I hope you get what Im trying to say? This depends on how much more competitive the generic keyword is, though.
Yup, that's what I'm thinking. And if that page doesn't show up until the third page of results, I'd consider that a victory. Actually, I don't think it should be that hard to get that exact result, but my concern is more about on-going maintenance and keeping the right balance, even as the level of competitiveness changes for the phrase.

Ah well, those are some of the fun challenges of being an SEO, no? I've had to deal with worse (like when a company was planning on changing its brand name, but we weren't allowed to use the new name publicly until it was officially announced. Trying to build up good rankings for a name you weren't allowed to use ... now that's a PITA)

Quote:
Originally Posted by NewKidOnTheBlock View Post
Just out of curiosity and b/c I didnt fully understand the purpose of this..has it got to do with branding? That the one search phrase would associate your client's brand with something negative in his industry (or at least in his opinion)?

Is it something as drastic as..for example having your site show up for "anti gay movement" but not wanting it to show up for "gay"?? lol

EDIT: This is just a random example Im not homophobe or anything..
Nothing quite as dramatic or political as all that . It does concern a brand, but it's more of a marketing thing than a strict "branding" exercise. I think the "bmw defects" example is a really good one. Don't want to go into too much more detail than that because I don't think the client would appreciate it.
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Old 08-27-2007   #8
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Re: Ranking for phrase but not keyword in phrase

Obviously, what you want to do is very targeted.

You are going to need to start out with some content pages targeting the most popular 2, 3 and 4 word keyword phrases. To find these phrases you might use Google Suggest or the AdWords tool.


keep in mind:

- Two and three-word keyword phrases amount to more than 50% of queries. (one word = 13.48%)

- 25% of queries are unique.


When the pages targeting near neighbors are complete, then you should like the pages using various anchors that in most cases include the singular keyword term you want to target.

I've found what works best is using the keyword you want to target as the last word in the TITLE of your pages. Also to avoid showing up for acme gallery, be sure not to put those two words next to each other in copy.

Last edited by beu : 08-27-2007 at 12:06 PM.
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