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Old 09-24-2004   #1
bobmutch
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Google Engineer Hints at Quarterly PR Updates?

Google Engineer Hints at Quarterly PR Updates?
On Mar 11/2004 on a WebmasterWorld Forum a Google engineer with the online nickname Googleguy seemed to hint in a jokeing way that Google might go to guarterly updates of visible PR.

The following is what he said. "I heard that at PubCon, DaveN suggested that Google should only update the visible PR and link: data once a quarter or so... ;)" to which edit_g responded "Is that a hint as to a new policy or are you just messing? (somebody had to ask!) :)". Googleguy never responded back nor made any more comments on that thread.

Well I think it is some thing to consider. Here we are without a toolbar PR update for 94 days. To me it seems like we might be right around the corner from a toolbar update.

I have been working on my new site getting ready for a big reciprocal links campaign and been thinking about how to make my offer more attractive. It seems people are more willing to give you a link if your site has high PageRank. So I worked out a deal that would get me some high PR text link ads. I talked to an internet friend that runs an online site that needed a deeper crawl. He's off to get a quote on some text link ads that will give him a deeper and more regular crawls.

I thought it would be good to post some good common sense pointers when purchasing text link ads and the benefits of text link ads.

Benefits of text link ads
1. Brings traffic to your site. In almost all cases this is your main objective. You want traffic that you can convert to sales.
2. Inbound links give weight to your ranking. You want numerous keyword anchored links from relevant pages.
3. The PageRank vote. Purchasing links solely for their PR vote is discouraged by Google. In fact some sites have had there PR transfer cut off for blatantly selling links based on PR only. Beware of these kinds of sellers. While PR is a gauge to the value of text link ad, there is more to it that than.


Things to Consider when purchasing text link ads.
1. Make sure you have an agreement that can be renewed.
2. Pick sites that have a lot of inbound links. You can judge this by what PageRank value their pages have.
3. Ask to see a print out of the stats for the last 2 months with the option to login to the stats of the site. If you are not getting a home page ask to see the stats for the traffic on the filename of the page that is being offered you. If they can't provide them go somewhere else.
4. Don't get site-wide links! If site-wides are not already devalued they probable will be soon.
5. Ask for the page and position your link will be given on a domain. You want your link to be clearly seen so you can get as much traffic as you can.
6. Beware of curbers. Like the people that sell cars on the side of the road (they call them curbers) you don't want to buy from some one with doesn’t have an established business or is not working with one. If some thing goes wrong you want to have some recourse.
[added]
7. Make sure the site you are purchasing the links from has a large number of links and didn't get them high PR from a few purchased links that can go and quick as they came.
8. The reputation of the site. If he site is known to be above the board and commands respect in its section of the industry then you will receive some of the reputation also.
9. Relevance of the links. You want numerous keyword anchored links from relevant pages.
[/added]

Last edited by Joseph Morin : 09-25-2004 at 10:30 PM. Reason: No self promotion allowed
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Old 09-24-2004   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobmutch
Things to Consider when purchasing text link ads.
...
7. The authenticity and variety of inbound links. They can rent a few high PR links and so what...it does not matter. It will show a high PageRank but if those few high PR links go away then so does the bulk of that link popularity.
8. The reputation of the site you are buying / renting links from. If a site has a solid rep then you can borrow off that reputation. It would be hard to buy links inside a few SearchEngineWatch articles, but if Danny Sullivan links to some of your articles it can legitimize you in the eyes of many.
9. Kinda goes along with 8...the sneezer aspect of the site you are renting / buying a link from. If they like your message and are willing to spread it to beyond the borders of their site then reaching them becomes significantly more valuable.
10. How the ad will be displayed and how relevant the site is to yours... basically will it bring any direct traffic. Clustering search engines will also give you a boost for links from on topic sites.
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Old 09-25-2004   #3
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seobook: Yes I like your #7 (They can rent a few high PR links and so what), I though of that one but didn't put it in. You want links with sites that didn't get there PR by buying a few big PR links.

I think I covered your #10 (How the ad will be displayed) in my #5 ( Ask for the page and position your link will be given on a domain) and your relevance (and how relevant the site is to yours) in my Benefits of text link ads #2 (You want numerous keyword anchored links from relevant pages.
). But I can see I should have it in the other catagory also.

#8 (The reputation of the site you are buying / renting links from. If a site has a solid rep then you can borrow off that reputation.) is good I like that.

I am not sure if I understood you #9 (the sneezer aspect of the site you are renting / buying a link from).

Nice, good points I will add them up.
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Old 09-25-2004   #4
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Bobmutch,

I strongly suggest you take a look at this thread before you go on any further:

http://forums.searchenginewatch.com/...?threadid=1779

Good luck with your new company!! I honestly wish you success.

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Old 09-25-2004   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobmutch
I am not sure if I understood you #9 (the sneezer aspect of the site you are renting / buying a link from).
sneezer is a Seth Godin http://sethgodin.typepad.com/ type term to talk about connectors (which comes from Malcolm Gladwell's http://www.gladwell.com/ The Tipping Point http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...46455?v=glance <--- one of my 3 favorite books ever)

sneezers / connectors are people who will spread your idea.

example: the guy who created Prog submitted it to my directory of seo tools.

I added it to my newsletter,
my blog,
posted on about a dozen SEO forums,
and told a few other bloggers.

his site was listed in the top 6,000 on Alexa within 2 days without a cent of promotion (that I know of). part of that is because it is really useful but also part of that was that one of the first people to find it was an SEO sneezer who pointed out that super useful tool to everyone I knew.
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Old 09-25-2004   #6
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Nacho: Er before I go any further. In what my links campaign, my new website, before I post any more articles.

I think the numbers in the aricle are out to lunch. $687,500 to get a RP8. LOL, thats a joke. Take a medium weight PR8 with 2 links that will give you a PR8. If you look at Wakfer's chart he holds that 18 medium value PR8 with 50 total outbound will give you a entry value PR8. That recieving only 1/50th of the vote from those 18 medium PR8s. So if you revalue the outbounds down to 2.7 that will give you an entry level PR8 with 1 medium PR8.

In fact I just picked up a PR8 with only 2 external outbounds and another one with 11 external outbounds. Internal outbounds don't count in my book cus they vote the PR back.

You can pick up PR8's now with 10 to 20 links for $150US. So I am not sure what I should be getting out of that article.
Beside PR is devalued and doesn't matter much for ranking weight.

Any way I am a bit lost as to what to find in that article or before I go any further in what. Can you be more specific?

Last edited by bobmutch : 09-25-2004 at 03:35 PM.
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Old 09-25-2004   #7
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Text Link Ads

Ya Prog is a nice program and since SEO Chat took it over and made changes to it, its a even moreuseful tool. Sneezers eh, LOL. You think there is a lot of that going on. Enough so that it is an issue to take into consideration when purchasing links. I guess I would have to read the book.

Last edited by Joseph Morin : 09-25-2004 at 10:27 PM. Reason: No self promotion
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Old 09-25-2004   #8
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Another benefit of advertising...

Opens communication doors between you and the person owning the site you are advertising on.

I have had articles published on some sites while I was advertising on them. Not sure if the advertising directly related to getting published in some of these instances, but people are more inclined to take you seriously after you start paying some of their bills.
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Old 09-25-2004   #9
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If Google only update quarterly, then I hope most webmasters only install the Toolbar quarterly.
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Old 09-25-2004   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I, Brian
If Google only update quarterly, then I hope most webmasters only install the Toolbar quarterly.
the toolbar has other features too and we are lazy creatures of habit
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Old 09-25-2004   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seobook
the toolbar has other features too and we are lazy creatures of habit
That's what's really scary. The Toolbar was effectively sold to the webmastering community on the basis of measuring PR - every page's assigned value, according to Google.

Now that Google no longer shows the value, people are still providing Google will free marketing and research information, regardless. I actually find that pretty scary.

If webmasters actually made the consumer decision en masse to remove the Toolbar unless PR was updated, then at least they would be making an empowered consumer decision.

But at the moment, there seems to be a general resignation that providing demographic info to Google has always been done, therefore it should be done - even when there is far less value given to the provision of such information.

I don't know - maybe I'm looking at this the wrong way. Maybe most people with the toolbar installed simply use the search features, and have all the "advanced" user tracking features switched off.
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Old 09-26-2004   #12
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Your theory seems wrong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobmutch
Here we are without a toolbar PR update for 94 days. To me it seems like we might be right around the corner from a toolbar update.
Hear am I with my PR updated less than month ago. Seems your theory about 3 month period is wrong or has not been implemented in pratice yet.

Your three month delay may just means that your old approaches to improve the page rank do not work anymore.

Vadim.
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Old 09-26-2004   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vadim
Hear am I with my PR updated less than month ago. Seems your theory about 3 month period is wrong or has not been implemented in pratice yet.

Your three month delay may just means that your old approaches to improve the page rank do not work anymore.

Vadim.
there has not been a broad update of toolbar pagerank in many months. the directory pagerank has been updating...backlinks have been updating...but toolbar pagerank has not.
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Old 09-27-2004   #14
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the whole PR / Linkage Game has changed.

just be careful how and where you buy PR these days
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Old 09-27-2004   #15
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Vadim:
Quote:
Hear am I with my PR updated less than month ago. Seems your theory about 3 month period is wrong or has not been implemented in pratice yet.
Its was the toolbar displayed PR that I was referring to. The directory displayed PR was updated on Sept 10th and I hold that the Real PR has been updated after each of the 4 BL updates since June 22. June 22 was the last toolbar displayed PR update.

DaveN:
Quote:
just be careful how and where you buy PR these days
Can you expand on your how and where comment.
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Old 09-27-2004   #16
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I also referred to the toolbar display

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobmutch
Vadim: Its was the toolbar displayed PR that I was referring to.
I also referred to the toolbar display.

For me it was not accidental. I redesigned my site about 3 month ago to return PR and this has helped.

It is interesting to find out what has really changed because it is clear that PR has been updating but not as usual. I mean that algorithm has changed and this changing cannot be reduced to simple formula “no updates for 3 month”.

Vadim.
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Old 09-27-2004   #17
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Vadim: The toolbar displayed PR has not updated since June 22 no matter what you see on your toolbar.

Quote:
It is interesting to find out what has really changed because it is clear that PR has been updating but not as usual
Against toolbar displayed PR has not been updated, I do believe that Real PR has been updating those but it is hard to tell which you refer to as you just say PR.

Quote:
I mean that algorithm has changed and this changing cannot be reduced to simple formula “no updates for 3 month”.
There is no formula, just a simple fact. There has been no toolbar display updates for 3 months.
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Old 09-28-2004   #18
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Last time i spoke to my friends from the plex, they where working on the ability to add - positive and negative weight to links depending on how they looked Via there gui
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Old 09-28-2004   #19
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DaveN: Postive yes, negative - oh my. Now there is an idea eh. Don't ban sites that sell links just add a negative weight toward Ranking for any one that links to them. How they look in the GUI, hrmm, I don't get that one.
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Old 09-28-2004   #20
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i have never seen the GUi but from what i can gather it will highlight un natural areas on page, think about where most people put there sold links
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