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Old 04-01-2007   #1
BillionNamesofGod
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keyworddiscovery vs overture vs wordtracker suggestion

I tried a search and on keyword discovery it was a really big - I mean big - number.

So I tried the same search on overture suggestion tool, and *nothing*
wordtracker, less then one hundred.

Just when I thought I stumbled upon something interesting, nothing else confirms the traffic figures keyword discovery suggests.

Can anyone clarify what is the best way to verify traffic numbers for a keyword for definite? They don't all give the same information!

Or at least so the numbers are close, not a difference of 100 to many 1000's.

Surely there is a better way to find this information and verify it?
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Old 04-03-2007   #2
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There are more than a few people would like to know the answer to this one.
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Old 04-08-2007   #3
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The main challenge is that all three, WT - OV - KD, are very different beasts and so there can be no direct correlation between them.

For example:-
1) all three draw their data from very different sources,
2) their data is drawn over different time periods, OV one month, WT three and KD twelve months, and so the count figures would need some rationalisation
3) all three have different data cleansing systems, eg., OV de-pluralises, de-punctuates and sometimes alphbetises the words in the search phrase, so again that muddies the correlation waters,

and so on.

So you have to figure out what parameters and algorithms you are going to apply when combining the data.

I would suggest the first step would be to generate monthly equivelants (WT/3 & KD/12) and then perhaps do some averaging. Even then, the eyeball is perhaps the best filter.

Kinda like comparing Oranges, Lemons and Grapefruit in that they are all from the Citrus family but are very different and individual fruits. Combine their juices though and you have a rather interesting Citrus tasting drink with some attributes of all three.
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Old 04-15-2007   #4
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Woz's post is one of the best overview summary statements of the differences among these tools that I've seen.

I'd add that WT draws from a very small sample of web searches, so that its data isn't very useful for infrequently-searched phrases. I've seen WT skewed dramatically in certain keyword areas, probably by search marketers in those areas who wanted to muddy the waters.

OV data, on the other hand, suffers from lots of automatic rank checking, which tends to happen in more competitive and frequently searched terms, so it's exponentially skewed at the top end. OV has recently forced stemming on certain searches, I've observed, which makes it useless for assessing many phrases.

The Google External AdWords tool, another tool you should put into the mix, is skewed by the algorithms that Google is applying for AdWords buyers. It has the largest sample size, is the least likely to be skewed by test searches, and of course has demographics that come from Google.

I wish I had a better idea of the demographics of KD's results. It's a very nice tool, and offers very granular results on many searches.

As Woz suggests, you've got to use all of these tools together.

Together, they're good for indicating relative search frequency. You can't use them to predict the number of clicks you're likely to receive.
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Old 04-16-2007   #5
Greggorio
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Smile Shame HitWise is not available for Agencies

Hey, as I know alot of you maybe be familiar with HitWise, I attended a Hitwise session last week at SES NY, and I must say that Hitwise would be my preferred keyword tool, especially with all of its competitiveness features. It's a shame that SEM/SEO Agencies DO NOT have access to this tool, unless a client of theirs has it and grants you access. Currently, Trellian's Keyword Discovery is by far the best tool for me, but Search Marketers need more than just keyword volumes.

This HitWise tool would be priceless due to the increasing costs of Paid Search and Organic competition these days as well as the client's increased ROAS%, CPA, Topline Revenue expectations that come with expensive Analytics packages and service fees. Finding that competitive edge with a specific company's competitors, affiliates and resellers/partners in SEM is crucial, especially since my experience has taught me that Branding search terms produce a majoroty of the successful ROAS, as well as higher revenues and lowest CPCs.

I personally asked HitWise about this opportunity for Agencies to utilize their tools and recommended a separate module just for the keyword tools and a smaller downsized version of competitive analysis. Let's hope that HitWise listens to us in the agency world and comes up with a revised tool that bypasses any legal issues and in turn, they make more money and most importantly enables SEM/SEO's gurus alike lives much easier.

Last edited by Greggorio : 04-16-2007 at 01:51 PM.
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Old 04-19-2007   #6
inlogicalbearer
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A other point to check when you suspect a OV surestimation on a keyphrase: Use the same query in Yahoo (in the week and in working hours) to see if it brings some ads. More you'll see ads, better the chances of over-estimation.
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Old 04-19-2007   #7
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The bottom line here is that you have to consider the actual source of the data that these services are using. Wordtracker uses some meta type of search for their data; Overture/Yahoo!/Google uses their own data and perhaps publishes a "version" fo the data that they want you to see. Hitwise and Keyword Discovery use another type of method.
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Old 04-20-2007   #8
directom
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Great discussion! I use and have used all of the tools mentioned and others (except for HitWise). They're great to give you ballparks of what should be most important for you. The genesis of the research starts with the same things you should use when comparing data or making final decisions, though: pen, paper, thinking about what people should search for, and asking people not related to the subject matter what they would search for.
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