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Old 10-26-2006   #1
holden
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Smile Setting a keyword to all three match types - broad, phrase and exact

Hello,

I'm new to this forum and I have a question I'm hoping someone can answer.

Is it advantageous in anyway to set up a keyword using all three match types - broad, phrase and exact? For example, would it be beneficial to set up 'New York Sushi' like this?

new york sushi
[new york sushi]
"new york sushi"

If I set up a keyword list like this, and a competitor set 'New York Sushi' to only broad match, and we were both willing to spend the same CPC, would mine come out on top because I also have it as an exact match? (I know there are other factors like CTR, contact, etc., but I'm just trying to keep it simple.)

Also, if someone searched for 'best sushi in new york' my ad would be triggered via the broad match, correct? So I would be competing on several levels. Am I understanding this correctly?

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks!

Holden
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Old 10-26-2006   #2
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I typically set all phrases to either "phrase match" or [exact match] and never use broad match unless of course it is a single keyword.

With new york sushi, I would think using broad match you would also garner impressions for new york by itself, no? Or even sushi by itself and if someone in Phoenix is looking for sushi and you are in new York, it is not a very targeted lead.
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Old 10-27-2006   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by holden
Is it advantageous in anyway to set up a keyword using all three match types - broad, phrase and exact? For example, would it be beneficial to set up 'New York Sushi' like this?

new york sushi
[new york sushi]
"new york sushi"
One advantage to using all three match types is that you can get better analysis of ROI. For example [new york sushi] may have a higher conversion rate then "new york sushi" which maybe something you’d want to consider when setting up a bid strategy. It all depends on what level of analysis you want to go into. The Google conversion tracking can help with this.
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Old 10-27-2006   #4
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I am also confused by this and posted recently about it as historically I have started off a campaign using all three match types for all keywords and then refined them later. However in an article I read by Andrew Goodman posted at:
http://www.wdfm.com/marketing-tips/ppc-strategies.php

it says:
"One such recommendation is not to use all three phrase matching options in a single ad group. Many of us used to do that "just to see what happens". It appears that some Googlers are quietly saying: "Um, don’t do that". I think Google is implying that using all three will lead to confusing performance."

I am now testing using just broad match where I was using all three, but seem to have lost ad positions on some terms that previously had the exact match version as well. For example where i was marketing on New york sushi and [New york sushi] I am now just marketing on New york sushi however now when I type in New york sushi my ad seems to have dropped position relative to where it appeared when the exact match was triggered. I also seem to be getting less total traffic than when I had all three match types active so would love to get clarity on this issue.
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Old 10-27-2006   #5
IgorMordkovich
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GregD made a good point about tracking.

Also I've noticed that YES, if your competitor is bidding for Broad match and you have an exact match for a keyword that's being searched Google will most likely favor your ad PLUS you might be paying less if cost per Exact Match is less than Broad match and vise verse.
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Old 10-27-2006   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IgorMordkovich
GregD made a good point about tracking.

Also I've noticed that YES, if your competitor is bidding for Broad match and you have an exact match for a keyword that's being searched Google will most likely favor your ad PLUS you might be paying less if cost per Exact Match is less than Broad match and vise verse.
Google shows ads so that they get the most money for them.... while you may be correct at times your comments above are not absolutely accurate.

If you have someone with exact match and another with broad match Google will pick the one that makes them the most money for the impression (not necessarily the click as some ads may cost less per click but have a much higher CTR).
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Old 10-27-2006   #7
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But if you limit your ads to phrase or exact match wouldn't you be missing out on other potential traffic that is looking for your product?

For example:

If you set it at "new york sushi" or [new york sushi]...you could be missing out on traffic that's searching for:

- fresh new york sushi
- new york restaurant sushi

Wouldn't these searches also be relevant and could produce conversions?
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Old 10-27-2006   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Wallace
I typically set all phrases to either "phrase match" or [exact match] and never use broad match unless of course it is a single keyword.

With new york sushi, I would think using broad match you would also garner impressions for new york by itself, no? Or even sushi by itself and if someone in Phoenix is looking for sushi and you are in new York, it is not a very targeted lead.
i'm new to adwords and most of the keywords i listed are broad match...and they are not single keyword.. thanks for this, i think this could help me in improving my listing and btw how could he stop his ad from being seen when the search query is only "new york"
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Old 10-29-2006   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bebsie
....and btw how could he stop his ad from being seen when the search query is only "new york"
One way is to just add it as a negative match keyword. For example:

-[new york]
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Old 10-30-2006   #10
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Quote:
But if you limit your ads to phrase or exact match wouldn't you be missing out on other potential traffic that is looking for your product?

For example:

If you set it at "new york sushi" or [new york sushi]...you could be missing out on traffic that's searching for:

- fresh new york sushi
- new york restaurant sushi
Clickagent75 - if you phrase match "new york sushi" then your ad will show for the example "fresh new york sushi" (your example)
Phrase match allows for the exact phrase in the exact word order - irrespective of other words in the phrase. So for example - it would also show for 'worst new york sushi'

If you use [exact match] then it has to be an exact match - so [new york sushi] won't show for a search on 'fresh new york sushi'

Start with phrase match & negative keywords (set negatives at the campaign or adgroup level) and expand the range from there.

You can start from either direction - broad match & heaps of negatives; or (most restrictive) exact match; or phrase match with negatives....
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Old 10-30-2006   #11
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If you do use broad match you can set the location of the Ad to appear only to viewers in new york through the Ad targeting options instead of making a negative keword list of other locations.

I've found broad match works fine as long as you take the time to develop a good negative keyword list, in my case my negative keyword list is about 8 times longer than my keyword list.

Then anaylze your traffic over time to add more negative keywords to the list. If there are keywords that are commonly paired with your keyword phrases under a broad match that are successful, I would create phrase or exact matches with those.

Basically using your broad match as a keyword recruitment office.

NiV23
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Old 10-30-2006   #12
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Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by abbottsys
One way is to just add it as a negative match keyword. For example:

-[new york]
in his example keywords with the negative keyword new york, would his ad still show if the query is fresh sushi in new york?
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Old 10-30-2006   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bebsie
in his example keywords with the negative keyword new york, would his ad still show if the query is fresh sushi in new york?
no.............................
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Old 10-30-2006   #14
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...But the negative in the example is the exact match -[new york] ie only effective for someone typing exactly new york into google, so the ad would still show on fresh sushi in new york, if new york sushi was broad matched.

In fact wouldnt the -[new york] be irrelevant whatever was typed in? as the keyword in the original example had sushi in it so would not be triggered by just typing in new york. Surely there would never be a reason to negatively match parts of your search phrases?
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Old 10-30-2006   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edsblue
...But the negative in the example is the exact match -[new york] ie only effective for someone typing exactly new york into google, so the ad would still show on fresh sushi in new york, if new york sushi was broad matched.

In fact wouldnt the -[new york] be irrelevant whatever was typed in? as the keyword in the original example had sushi in it so would not be triggered by just typing in new york. Surely there would never be a reason to negatively match parts of your search phrases?
I would have thought it would block use of new york as opposed to the new sushi restaurant on york ave
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Old 10-30-2006   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edsblue
...But the negative in the example is the exact match -[new york] ie only effective for someone typing exactly new york into google, so the ad would still show on fresh sushi in new york, if new york sushi was broad matched.

In fact wouldnt the -[new york] be irrelevant whatever was typed in? as the keyword in the original example had sushi in it so would not be triggered by just typing in new york. Surely there would never be a reason to negatively match parts of your search phrases?
i didn't know i could make a combination of exact and negative as in the case -[new york]. i think i'll try doing this in some of my ad groups. Thanks
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Old 10-30-2006   #17
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no problem, google doesnt promote it very well its called embedded match.
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