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Old 10-17-2006   #1
Discovery
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Panama is LIVE! - for some

Yahoo Email:

The New Sponsored Search Is Now Live!

Earlier this year, we announced that a completely redesigned marketing platform is on its way, full of advanced, easy-to-use features that will help you better connect with Yahoo!'s vast and valuable audience. We wanted to take a moment to provide you with an update on the availability of the new Sponsored Search.

We've begun inviting U.S. advertisers to upgrade their accounts. We've been thoroughly testing our systems to help ensure a quality experience once advertiser accounts are upgraded, and we are now beginning the process of inviting advertisers to upgrade their accounts. *The new Sponsored Search will roll out to advertisers in the U.S. market first. Details regarding international availability of the new Sponsored Search will be made available at a later date.


clips:
Invitations will be sent in stages to U.S. advertisers over the remainder of the year and early next year.

Many resources will be available to help you make a smooth transition.

The bid information displayed within your current account will soon change.

New Terms and Conditions will take effect once your account is upgraded. Once you've upgraded, your account will be governed by a new set of advertiser Terms and Conditions. Review the new terms and conditions.

Check your email -

Discovery
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Old 10-17-2006   #2
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There's also limited opportunity available to request early participation and get a head start:

http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/upgrade.php
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Old 10-18-2006   #3
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From Marcia's link you can view a PDF and flash presentation about how Panama will work.
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Old 10-18-2006   #4
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Check out this, from their new Terms & Conditions:

"6. ACCEPTING OUR SUGGESTIONS. By using a Selected Ad Group (defined below), title, description, link, ad, and/or other element of an ad that may be suggested by a Yahoo! Search Marketing Entity, you represent, warrant, and covenant that such Selected Ad Group, title, description, link, ad, and/or element thereof is authorized by you and complies with the Agreement. You agree that none of the Yahoo! Search Marketing Entities shall have any liability for Selected Ad Groups, your ads, or any changes thereto based on suggestions by a Yahoo! Search Marketing Entity. "Selected Ad Groups" means the keywords you select, as well as certain misspellings, singular/plural combinations, and other related keywords that we may map to your ads based on the keywords, your ads themselves, and/or the websites to which the ads link. For example, and without limiting the foregoing, if you select the keyword "book," your ad may also appear in response to the keywords "books" or "buy books." At a Yahoo! Search Marketing Entity's discretion, an ad may include a title, description, text, and/or graphics."

In other words, "you're stuck with whatever wording we decide is ok for your ads and you have to accept what we say to participate in this program." That sucks, imho. Who's paying for the ads, anyway?

This isn't in the current program's T&C's, btw.

Melissa
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Old 10-18-2006   #5
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Melissa,

I don't think Yahoo is going to be editing your ads, just determining what keywords your ad appears for: "If you select the keyword "book," your ad may also appear in response to the keywords "books" or "buy books." I believe this was pretty much how their keywords worked before also, depending on whether you used standard or advance match.

They did also mention that the terms and conditions will change, once you update to the new system. Where did you access the new T&C? Have you started using the new system?
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Old 10-18-2006   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KathleenPTS
Melissa,

I don't think Yahoo is going to be editing your ads, just determining what keywords your ad appears for: "If you select the keyword "book," your ad may also appear in response to the keywords "books" or "buy books." I believe this was pretty much how their keywords worked before also, depending on whether you used standard or advance match.
Well, in re-reading the T&Cs, you may be right. I hope! I've had problems in the past with Yahoo heavily editing my ads, rendering them senseless and filling them with spelling and grammatical errors, so I guess I'm overly sensitive to the whole "editorial" thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KathleenPTS
They did also mention that the terms and conditions will change, once you update to the new system. Where did you access the new T&C? Have you started using the new system?
No, I'm not using the new system yet, but there was a link in the email I received from Yahoo last night:
http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/legal/atc.php

HTH,

Melissa
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Old 10-18-2006   #7
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I hope I'm right too. They already edit and change my keywords and URLs in totally nonsensical and obnoxious ways, but they have never edited my ads like you mention. If they started editing my ads in the unintelligent manner that they do to my keywords, I think I would go through the roof.

Thanks for the link to the T&C.
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Old 10-18-2006   #8
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I am hoping this means only that they will set the campaigns up for you, but that you are responsible for the results after that. I would think that the advertiser would have the ability to completely overhaul any and all the ad groups, urls, ads, descriptions, etc. at any point after the initial set up. As long as we have that ability, this should be no problem.

If Yahoo's editorial process with Panama is as painless as Google's, I will be very happy.
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Old 10-18-2006   #9
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Is anyone live with this now?

The email I got after requesting early participation in Yahoo! Panama includes the following... "If you are selected to participate in the early upgrade, we will notify you at least two weeks prior to the first day that your access to the new system is enabled." Looks like it will be at least a few weeks for those of us who do not have access as of now.
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Old 10-18-2006   #10
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Gotta tell ya guys... after the MSN adcenter beta fiasco, I for one am not ready to be part of an experiment for anybody.

But you guys jump right in there and let us know how "good it goes"....
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Old 10-18-2006   #11
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PPC I read the same thing and was thinking man did they jump the gun?

Its OK to notify advertisers that the new system is coming shortly and they are taking sign ups for early testers. Its also very wise that they proactively inform advertisers about changes and how to make the transition..but instead they title their email:

"The New Sponsored Search Is Now Live!"

Perhaps a small oversight, but YSM has little to no room for error. Properly setting expectations through clear communications is paramount to a successful launch.

I'm trying to keep an open mind until I have full access and can review all the features that may not have been promoted in the launch spin. However the tutorial and private demonstration we received many months ago did not impress me. It was like paypal telling me I could now process credit cards online. And what worries me more is that there was not ONE mention of a feature to allow advertisers to identify and report click fraud/junk clicks. If recent reports are correct click fraud is at minimum 15% of ones ad spend, should this not have been an important issue to address in this first release?

Can I still see my competitors and their bids? I dont think so. This was one distiguishing feature I really liked about YSM and now I believe it is gone.

And keeping the Euros out indefinately? Wow, that has got to make them feel like the ugly redheaded step child.

Sorry going down the wrong path... open mind... open mind.

Discovery
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Old 10-18-2006   #12
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It's sort of funny

Ok, so yahoo is in trouble. They announce their Q3 reports and go into a buy-back plan and decide to go live. Sounds to me like p-a-n-i-c. Nobody really talks about the big question. Where is the money gonna come from? I personally find it hard to believe that one or both of these two things won't happen:

The cost of ads will go up.
The quality of sites our ads appear on won't improve.

All I'm looking for is honesty. Just come out and say, "advertising costs are going to climb." I don't want to hear anything else about the "end-user experience." If any search engine actually cared about the end-user, they'd spend some time cleaning up the naturals. Just tell me how it is, and don't feed me the company line.

I spend 20k a month on ysm, only used advanced match, and have my content off. I still find my ads on bogus sites all the time. If costs go up, I'm gonna have a bit of an issue with bogus sites hosting my ads.

I also hope that the new platform doesn't turn into msn jokecenter. This morning, I paused a campaign and my ads are still appearing 10 hours later. Hopefully yahoo has their act together and this thing is actually ready to go.
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Old 10-19-2006   #13
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I'm pretty sure Panama still doesn't allow for site exclusions. Given the exponential increase in the number of crappy search partner sites in the Yahoo network recently, that's certainly a huge omission - whether intentional or not. I'm glad there will be geo-targeting - we can only sell to the US, yet we get hundreds (if not thousands) of Yahoo PPC clicks every month from non-US locales, so geo-targeting will be a great improvement. However, I also want to exclude some of these junk sites I'm seeing - but I've been told there's no way to do that in Panama. Which keeps my overall spend down since I have to account for that in my economics.

I agree, Yahoo seems to be in desperation mode. We'll see what happens over the next few months.

Melissa
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Old 10-19-2006   #14
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Quote:
Can I still see my competitors and their bids? I dont think so. This was one distiguishing feature I really liked about YSM and now I believe it is gone.
Your right, its being phased out shortly.

Quote:
The bid information displayed within your current account will soon change.
They will begin removing some of the transparency in bids prior to migration from the legacy ad network.

From what I hear from reputable sources, quality index will be implemented prior to full migration in Q1. So, time to update that creative - increase the relevancy and targeting of your keywords, ads, and landing pages. The sooner you upgrade your accounts the better your chances will be for building a competitive advantage through longer quality index "marketplace" history.

Last edited by bengerstein : 10-19-2006 at 12:39 PM.
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Old 10-19-2006   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Discovery
PPC I read the same thing and was thinking man did they jump the gun?

Its OK to notify advertisers that the new system is coming shortly and they are taking sign ups for early testers. Its also very wise that they proactively inform advertisers about changes and how to make the transition..but instead they title their email:

"The New Sponsored Search Is Now Live!"

Perhaps a small oversight, but YSM has little to no room for error. Properly setting expectations through clear communications is paramount to a successful launch.

I'm trying to keep an open mind until I have full access and can review all the features that may not have been promoted in the launch spin. However the tutorial and private demonstration we received many months ago did not impress me. It was like paypal telling me I could now process credit cards online. And what worries me more is that there was not ONE mention of a feature to allow advertisers to identify and report click fraud/junk clicks. If recent reports are correct click fraud is at minimum 15% of ones ad spend, should this not have been an important issue to address in this first release?

Can I still see my competitors and their bids? I dont think so. This was one distiguishing feature I really liked about YSM and now I believe it is gone.

And keeping the Euros out indefinately? Wow, that has got to make them feel like the ugly redheaded step child.

Sorry going down the wrong path... open mind... open mind.

Discovery
Discovery, I agree with several of your points. However, if Yahoo were to have addressed them all, they would not have shipped until March of next year, and meanwhile the loud anti-Yahoo dialogue would have gotten louder and louder that whole time. Much better that they have released and open things up now, even if it's only for some US customers.

The system is up and stable, for the first wave of advertisers. Starting the migration now, and the real market feedback process now, is healthier than holding back and getting everything perfect.

I personally don't believe in the "seeing competitors' bids" model - it will be impossible anyway now that the ranking algo will move towards a Google-like quality index. Just IMHO - far too much stock has been placed in seeing competitors' bids. Panama is quite simply nothing like the old DTC and old Overture, and I for one breathe a huge sigh of relief at the change.
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Old 10-19-2006   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mel66
I'm pretty sure Panama still doesn't allow for site exclusions. Given the exponential increase in the number of crappy search partner sites in the Yahoo network recently, that's certainly a huge omission - whether intentional or not. I'm glad there will be geo-targeting - we can only sell to the US, yet we get hundreds (if not thousands) of Yahoo PPC clicks every month from non-US locales, so geo-targeting will be a great improvement. However, I also want to exclude some of these junk sites I'm seeing - but I've been told there's no way to do that in Panama. Which keeps my overall spend down since I have to account for that in my economics.

I agree, Yahoo seems to be in desperation mode. We'll see what happens over the next few months.

Melissa
Hi Mel, sounds like improvements on control over content will be slated for debate and possible release in 2007. The stopgap appears to be a feature called "continent exclusion."
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Old 10-19-2006   #17
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Thanks Andrew - good to know.

Melissa
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Old 10-19-2006   #18
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Hey Andrew, I agree with your points, YSM needed to go live with something immediately. And I know that its a tough task to roll out the new platform to the whole world at once. A bit more clearity on how they are going to deal with countries outside of the US would have sent a better message than a "in the future" kind of statement. I just feel that what they have released is plain vanilla and click fraud controls should have been on their short list. There's really nothing a YSM marketer can stand up and say HEY WE'RE BACK AND DOING EXCITING STUFF!

The changes they are making are certainly welcomed improvements. I just question the strategy in what they have released first. I think they missed a large opportunity to come out with at least 1 meaningful feature that nobody else had. Then they could have touted that not only is the new platform stable, but they are ready to offer features that nobody else has. Of course I would prefer click fraud tools, however there are a number of other features they could have highlighted.

No longer billing upfront?
Internet Radio ad placement?
Transparancy into who is running your ads.
View all related terms for which your ad will be triggered given a specific keyword...then allow you to negative out keywords that should not trigger your ads.
A traffic estimation tool that actually works (nobody has this yet).
Visual depictions of ad reach across their search and content network according to impressions and or clicks.

Well there are plenty, but I guess my point is it didnt have to be a technological masterpiece, just something new, useful and hinted about what may be down the road for YSM.

Discovery
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Old 10-19-2006   #19
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To me, a couple of the exciting things that admittedly do not fully roll until Jan 2007 when the algo goes live are:

* the new Quality Index which is exciting if you like tinkering

* the "assists concept" (if you install Y conversion tracking) which really does stand in between plain conversion counting (too literal) and falling back on "brand lift" (too vague and BS-y)

There is some exciting stuff there. Admittedly a lot of it is *not* sexy. Basic implementation never is. Even cleanup of nomenclature (shrinking the number of products and offshoots and terminologies for all this stuff) is important for the user even if it doesn't exactly send chills down your spine. Local will work better and be easy to enable, etc. - that's bread and butter, which I understand is not living well, but it is living. Maybe Yahoo's new slogan can be "sexy in 2007" (..."or 2008 in some countries")
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Old 11-01-2006   #20
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Is anyone live with this yet? Or heard back from Yahoo about when their account will be live?
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