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Old 09-02-2004   #1
dannysullivan
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Overture Going Broad Match

Advertisers are supposed to get notice today that in a few weeks, Overture will be shifting to an all broad match system. In other words, by default, bidding on a term like "shoes" will match any search that contains that word -- not just the single word itself.

There will be an option to turn this off and do just the "standard match" people are used to. The current broad and phrase match options will be going away.

There more about this in the article I've just posted: Overture Shifting To Default Broad Match.

Last edited by dannysullivan : 09-02-2004 at 12:43 PM. Reason: updated with article link
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Old 09-02-2004   #2
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Overture Going Broad Match

Hmmm.

So Overture are going to take all the non-US ads I manage and whack them onto "advanced" match. It seems from reading between the lines that this won't happen in the US to existing ads - Danny, can you confirm?.

This means more of my ads will appear for searches without all the "core" words in the search string reflected in the title (e.g. "cheap nike shoes" may show an "advanced match" ad of mine with the text "Cheap Shoes" which doesn't make clear the site is a Nike authorised dealer = less clicks).

Generally, keywords in title - higher CTR, even if not in #1.

So, my concerns:

1) I could turn off "advanced match" and make sure I have all keywords covered with specific titles. Or gamble on a good enough CTR with advanced match. Hmmm.

2) Some, if not many, terms covered by advanced match may not be relevant to my site if they are just "switched over" in Europe. I know they won't be, or they'd be on broad already. I can't put them on broad, because Overture doesn't allow me to add enough negative keywords. Unlike Google.

3) This will make it easier for lazy advertisers (meaning traditional ad agencies for a start) to scoop up keyword inventory that is historically low to medium in traffic levels and low CPCs. Not that Yahooverture is pandering to their deep pockets, esp. when many have no idea about ROI or tracking and just chuck money at Overture regardless of performance.

However, this could make it easier to cover searches on overture I admit. But I beleive this is how it shoudl be done:

1) NO existing ads are switched from exact to advanced by Overture - advertiser's choice, not theirs, to do this.

2) Allow us to add more negative keywords

3) Stop assumming they always know best and forcing changes on advertisers.

OK, rant over.

Last edited by KeywordMonkey : 09-02-2004 at 12:55 PM. Reason: Edited after article posted by Danny
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Old 09-02-2004   #3
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Overture's Advanced Match Type

Here's the detail on Overture's Advanced Match Type on their UK website.
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Old 09-02-2004   #4
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Quote:
So Overture are going to take all the non-US ads I manage and whack them onto "advanced" match. It seems from reading between the lines that this won't happen in the US to existing ads - Danny, can you confirm?.
Yes, my understanding was that both existing and new ads in Europe and Australia would be automatically put into advanced match, while in the US and other markets, only new ads would. Advertisers would always be able to switch ads in and out of programs at will. I didn't get a clear answer as to why Europe and Australia were being treated differently. Personally, I'd hope advertisers be given the choice if they want everything put in.
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Old 09-02-2004   #5
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Difference

I believe this is the exactly same as banking system. Whoever spends more, deposits more, gets more credit tends to have more flexibility to manage their account. Since US is generating so much revenue, advertisers in US are getting more flexibility. That’s the first thing that comes to my mind. The other reason may be “Don’t scare big spenders with changes” and use others as your testing group.
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Old 09-02-2004   #6
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Overture's Standard Match is still a big win.

I've always wondered why Overture didn't default to broad match as Google has done. Seems like they were just leaving money on the table.

Up untill now you had to go back into Overture after editorial approval to set phrase and/or broad (now = Advanced) matches and spend more money. Now, you have to go in and change overly general terms back to standard match to spend less money. No big deal.

I like the way Overture still rewards advertisers with Standard Match.

Standard matched ads appear in higher positions than broad matches and you are not competing on price with broad match terms. A $.10 standard match trumps a $2 broad match. This is not true on Google where the law of gross tonnage applies, i.e, a $2 Broad Match trumps a $.10 Exact Match (assuming CTRs are somewhat equal).

Lazy advertisers are still not going to automatically get the tail of the user search queries, especially in niche search areas where the search volume is lower.

Google, Overture and other PPC engines have to make an educated guess on whether or not your broad matched term is relevant to the user search query. This is no simple task. They won't get it right all the time, meaning you are paying for less relevant results, and they won't always present your ads on matches that seem really, really obvious to you.

It's still a good idea to take some of the guesswork away from the search engine algorithms by adding more two, three and four word search terms to your inventory for Exact, Phrase and Standard Matches. This will keep you ahead of your 'lazier' competitors.

I agree with KeywordMonkey... allowing more negative matches would be very helpful.
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Old 09-02-2004   #7
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And what about Godzooky?

I'm seeing on Overture UK an ultra-broad match that Overture customer service told me was caused by their "Godzooky" feature.

Say you're targeting "thermonuclear widgets", and your ad text says that you have a "solution to common problems with thermonuclear widgets". Godzooky is causing the ad to be displayed on "common widget" because you have "common" in your ad text.
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Old 09-03-2004   #8
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Re: Excluded Words on Overture advanced match type

Quote:
Originally Posted by KeywordMonkey

2) Allow us to add more negative keywords
Hi, KeywordMonkey,

One of the new options of our advanced match type is the ability to add more excluded keywords. Now you can exclude up to 45 words, and you can exclude them at both the account level and the individual keyword level.

This change should noticeably improve the relevancy of the matching -- I'd love to hear what you think if you try it out next month.

- OvertureRep

Last edited by OvertureRep : 09-03-2004 at 01:49 PM. Reason: minor edit to clarify response
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Old 09-03-2004   #9
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Question Max no. of negatives account wide

Thanks OvertureRep. To clarify:

- maximum of 45 negatives per keyword (good improvement)

- you can also apply account-wide negatives

So, is there a max. number of negatives that can be applied to a whole account?

Thanks, good to see an Ov rep on the forums.
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Old 09-03-2004   #10
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Smile Don't Forget Relevency!

Overture will still employ their "50% Token Ratio" rule. This basically means that if each word in a search query is a "token" your bidded query has to own more than 50% of the actual search query.

Example:
-I'm bidding on "used car" and I employ advanced match.
-User types in "buy used car". My Advanced match will show up because my token ratio is 66%.
-If a user types in "buy used Honda Accord car" then I will not show up because my token ratio is now 40%.

That should calm concern over lack of relevant/qualified clicks.

Implications:
1 - Good creative is now more important than ever. If your copy is not as specific as the search term is, then your AM queries will suffer from a poor CTR.
2 - Overture is still "stacking" their results. Meaning that all exact matches will be shown before an AM result, even if an AM bid is higher than an exact match bid. So the need for a comprehensive KW list is still vital to the overall health of an Overture campaign.
3 - Existing Phrase/Broad bids will roll up to exact match bids when the change kicks in...overall CPCs rise.

Anyone else have any other thoughts on possible scenarios?

thx
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Old 09-03-2004   #11
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Re: Excluded Words on Overture advanced match type

To clarify, the maximum number of excluded words on a given account or individual keyword is 45. (Our thinking is, in most cases, if a single keyword requires more than 45 excluded words, it's probably better to just use the Standard match type).

- OvertureRep
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Old 09-07-2004   #12
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Overture's actions

Default broad match is sure to push the prices up for keywords and also reward "lazy marketers".A quick reference to the "shoes"example sited by Danny hints at the additional money likely to flow into Overture coffers. This coupled with the news on Search Optimizer some how(I might be completely wrong) some how makes me feel that Overture is keen to gain greater control over the PPC campaign management process on the whole... a possible threat to the SEM's...who knows??

My belief is this is just one small part of a larger plan...
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Old 09-08-2004   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SearchGuyNYC
Overture will still employ their "50% Token Ratio" rule. This basically means that if each word in a search query is a "token" your bidded query has to own more than 50% of the actual search query.

Example:
-I'm bidding on "used car" and I employ advanced match.
-User types in "buy used car". My Advanced match will show up because my token ratio is 66%.
-If a user types in "buy used Honda Accord car" then I will not show up because my token ratio is now 40%.

That should calm concern over lack of relevant/qualified clicks.

thx
Search guy I'm curious about your example here. I would want to appear in the five word search that you sample as a 40% token ratio, but you say that not appearing calms a concern? I guess the addition of "honda used car" to the list of keywords would solve that problem...but this could make it where you had to put more kw's on your list to reach more searchers, which is work that I thought the advanced match is designed to help minimize, so (Overture Rep?) would you want to keep that 50% token rule?

Now make it "used car baltimore" and we're talking...of course the above example could apply if you are using the "Local match" feature. If you are not using local match, you are probably not in the market for ANY of these terms unless you have a site that can provide used cars nationwide, like a geographical directory.

By the way Overture Rep, there is nothing in the link that Danny gave us about the 50% token rule...

Last edited by Chris Boggs : 09-08-2004 at 04:15 PM. Reason: makes no sense
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Old 09-09-2004   #14
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Smile Relevency

Chris:

To answer your question about relevancy...yes, there are some cases where a less than 50% token ratio would still work for you. For the most part though, the assumption that Overture makes (which I happen to agree with) is that the longer the query string and the lower the token ratio, the better the chances are of your advanced match NOT being relevant.

In your example below, you are correct that you would want to add the phrase "Honda used car" to your kw list and then set that search term to Advanced Match so you could get coverage on searches like "buy used Honda car" or "used Honda accord car"

Advanced match is going to help get you more coverage of the tail terms, but it does not replace the need for an exhaustive kw list. Remember that exact and advanced matches will be stacked and ranked by CPC within their respective stacks. So, if you still want to truly control position, you will need as many exact matches as possible.

Hope that helps
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Old 09-10-2004   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SearchGuyNYC
Chris:

...the assumption that Overture makes (which I happen to agree with) is that the longer the query string and the lower the token ratio, the better the chances are of your advanced match NOT being relevant...

Advanced match is going to help get you more coverage of the tail terms, but it does not replace the need for an exhaustive kw list. Remember that exact and advanced matches will be stacked and ranked by CPC within their respective stacks. So, if you still want to truly control position, you will need as many exact matches as possible.

Hope that helps
Thanks Guy...it does help. I agree as well with the Overture assumption.

I guess the good news is that people will still benefit from SEM's-in house or outsourced-helping them with keyword research and management. There are some good tools out there, but it certainly takes a human touch to really do PPC right.

I would imagine that many of the PPC software companies have had plenty of time to build in features that isolate and analalyze broad/content match information...but I guess that topic is for another board...
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Old 09-13-2004   #16
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Lightbulb Use Overture Tracking URLs (OTU) To Your Advantage

This has been a long time coming; during my time consulting as a core member of the team designing Overture's launch last summer, everything from naming, to bidding, to listing management was in question around in the inclusion of multiple matching types. Sounds like Overture is now rationalizing their offering based on what they've learned over the last year, and that's good for all of us.

Now, assuming that you've read the article, and understand terms like "head", "tail", and "negative keywords", you might be wondering... "How do I make the most of this (for me, and potentially for my clients)?"

Fortunately, Overture implemented several of the features that I designed for last year's release, including Overture Tracking URLs (aka, OTU). (You can read more about OTU from Overture.)

Warning: This isn't for neophytes... though it ain't that hard. I promise!

Okay, you've decided to broad match on "shoes" (from the Clickz example), and now you're faced with a couple of new questions, including a) Which terms should I exclude and b) Which terms would be better left as Exact match (because it'd be cheaper, or I need to bid higher to be ranked 1-3, etc)?

OTU solves all of this for you, provided you're willing to do some analysis.

In short, OTU automatically appends a number of parameters to the URL you provided to Overture (don't worry, they won't appear on SERP pages, you'll still have your pristine marketing URLs) after a lead has clicked your ad. What's added? Get ready for analysis love!

OTU appends three "name value pairs", which are hardcoded:

OVKEY: the keyword you specified to broadmatch, e.g., "shoes"
OVMTC: the match type used to match for a SPECIFIC CLICK, e.g., "broad" (or "standard")
OVRAW: *** the actual term the searcher entered ***

So, now, if you are willing to mine your log, you could find out that in addition to typing in "shoes", users are also getting to you via "red running shoes", "strappy shoes", and "shoes for horses", by comparing the OVKEY vs. OVRAW values in your web log for every click you receive. (SEMs, there's a golden opportunity here to step up and automate this for your customers... wish I would have had time to do it myself...)

With that knowledge, you can build up your Excluded Keyword list for things you don't sell (or clicks that don't convert), and decide to Exact match for a greater or lower price (depending on the keyword) for specific child terms.

Be sure to review the Overture FAQ on OTU (say that 10 times fast) that I linked to above to understand its limitations, ways that it may break if you use a non-standard URL structure, etc.

Last edited by Elisabeth : 09-13-2004 at 07:19 PM. Reason: sorry, no sig files allowed
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Old 09-22-2004   #17
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Ever since Overture introduced the phrase and broad match facility we have been dining out on the incremental traffic we have been able to pick up for minimum prices, often in very competitive arenas.

With the original sites that offered phrase match traffic being small it was not vast numbers of clicks, but now that the likes of Yahoo and MSN offering extended matching something like this was inevitable.

Clearly a razor sharp standard (exact) match will always give the best relevancy, but a big chunk of searches are unique so using extended matching helped pick those up where there were no standard match bidders, so fuzzy matching using phrase and broad was a great way of getting a blended cost per click significantly below the going rate for the standard match alone.

Now this new feature is coming in you have to ask yourself what the best solution is going to be. I for one don't see having 45 negative keywords as being of immense benefit when paying high prices for less relevant traffic.

For us the strategy will be standard match primarily, with more use of lateral thinking to find that unbidded inventory that exists in every industry.
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Old 10-05-2004   #18
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i agree with the above...

ppc is so blown out now and competition so fierce, the strategy is to put on the thinking cap and find terms and phrases that are less obvious.

i think it takes stepping away from your business and think like the joe-blow-minivan crowd.

unless you like paying $1000/day+
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