Search Engine Watch
SEO News

Go Back   Search Engine Watch Forums > Search Engines & Directories > Yahoo! > Yahoo Search Marketing (PPC Ads)
FAQ Members List Calendar Forum Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 10-02-2006   #1
AussieWebmaster
Forums Editor, SearchEngineWatch
 
AussieWebmaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: NYC
Posts: 8,153
AussieWebmaster has a brilliant futureAussieWebmaster has a brilliant futureAussieWebmaster has a brilliant futureAussieWebmaster has a brilliant futureAussieWebmaster has a brilliant futureAussieWebmaster has a brilliant futureAussieWebmaster has a brilliant futureAussieWebmaster has a brilliant futureAussieWebmaster has a brilliant futureAussieWebmaster has a brilliant futureAussieWebmaster has a brilliant future
More News About Panama

Got this in the mail today:

The new Sponsored Search is on its way, and with it comes some new terminology and some important tasks to complete

As you know, Yahoo! Search Marketing has announced a number of enhancements to our advertiser systems and platform. In this article, we'll begin to explain how the Sponsored Search account structure is changing, and the actions we recommend you take in preparation.

Current Account Structure vs. New Sponsored Search
When your account is upgraded (these transitions will begin in fourth quarter 2006), some of the account structure terminology that is currently in use will change, and we will add some new terminology. Here is a summary of those changes and additions to the way your ads are organized:

Current: Listings
"Listings" have been the combination of keyword, bid, title, description and URL.

New: Ads
The marketing messages that your potential customers see will be "uncoupled" from keywords, and be known as "ads," but they are similarly comprised of a title, description and URL.

New: Ad Groups
"Ad Groups" are the combination of multiple ads (your creative) and keywords. You may set one bid for your entire ad group, or use individual keyword bids.

Current: Categories
Categories have served as the organizational structure you assigned to groups of keywords that are similar in a particular way, for purposes of bid management or reporting.

New: Campaigns
"Campaigns" replace categories, and will consist of a combination of one or more ad groups that share the same budget, schedule and geo-targeting criteria, usually created to achieve a particular marketing goal.

After your account is upgraded, you won't need to manage your account at the listing level anymore. Instead, you can manage and optimize your account performance at the account, campaign ad group or keyword/ad level. We recommend starting out by managing at the ad group level, in which you can use multiple versions of your creative (titles and descriptions). The benefit of using ad groups is that you will be able to test different versions of your creative, and have more impressions shifted to those ads that provide you with the highest click-through rate.

Preparing for the Account Upgrade
When we upgrade your account, we will move your account categories into campaigns with the same names. So if you haven't already done so, it's very important that you start to group your current listings that are related to each other into categories.

By completing this organization before your upgrade occurs, your ads should be much better organized after we move your account to the new structure. Then you'll be able to "hit the ground running" as you take advantage of our new interface and tools.

Example: If you sold "SeeClearly" televisions, under the new Sponsored Search you would probably want to have a "SeeClearly" campaign that included ad groups for the models "SeeClearly X100", "SeeClearly X200", "SeeClearly HDX1000", etc. Using this example, we recommend that you set up a "SeeClearly" category now that would contain all of your SeeClearly listings.

Summary
1. Keywords still serve as your foundation.
The keywords that describe your business can remain the same. These are still the connecting point between you and customers who are searching online.

2. Individual titles and descriptions will apply to multiple keywords.
Titles, descriptions and URLs-known as "ads" in the new Sponsored Search-may apply to more than one keyword. This should cut down on the time you have to spend generating advertising messages.

3. Keywords and ads will be organized into ad groups.
Ad groups can contain multiple keywords, along with up to 20 ads (titles, descriptions and URLs) that apply to those keywords. This will allow you to test multiple ads to find the message that works best with prospective customers.

4. One or more ad groups will make up a campaign.
Campaigns may contain multiple ad groups. Some new features will enable you to set up geo-targeting, scheduling and budgeting at the campaign level. This should give you more control, and help ensure that your campaigns are working as efficiently as possible.

5. Your account will be comprised of all your campaigns.
Your campaigns will make up your new Sponsored Search account, which will still apply to one market only, i.e., the United States (which includes English-speaking Canada). To advertise in more than one market, you will need to have multiple accounts.
AussieWebmaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2006   #2
sung2001
Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 4
sung2001 is on a distinguished road
Any word on if the match types will be modified?? I imagine the introduction of phrase match on Yahoo will really hurt rankings for some people.
sung2001 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2006   #3
Marcia
 
Marcia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 5,476
Marcia has a reputation beyond reputeMarcia has a reputation beyond reputeMarcia has a reputation beyond reputeMarcia has a reputation beyond reputeMarcia has a reputation beyond reputeMarcia has a reputation beyond reputeMarcia has a reputation beyond reputeMarcia has a reputation beyond reputeMarcia has a reputation beyond reputeMarcia has a reputation beyond reputeMarcia has a reputation beyond repute
Thanks for sharing it, AW. Any simplified analysis of what this all means for the new to average user?
Marcia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2006   #4
sem4u
Digital Marketer
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 236
sem4u is on a distinguished road
Sounds like AdWords....which isn't a bad thing

You will still have to set up different accounts to target each country though!
sem4u is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2006   #5
Mel66
Oversees: Google AdWords
 
Mel66's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Michigan
Posts: 775
Mel66 has much to be proud ofMel66 has much to be proud ofMel66 has much to be proud ofMel66 has much to be proud ofMel66 has much to be proud ofMel66 has much to be proud ofMel66 has much to be proud ofMel66 has much to be proud ofMel66 has much to be proud of
Quote:
Originally Posted by sem4u
Sounds like AdWords....
I spoke with a Yahoo rep yesterday, and he actually said, verbatim, "Our new account structure will be basically the same as Google, with Campaigns, Ad Groups, and Keywords."

Which is fine, and good - I just thought it was funny he said it would be "the same as Google."

Melissa
Mel66 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2006   #6
PPC
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Boston
Posts: 290
PPC will become famous soon enough
I talked to a rep over there and heard the same thing regarding the new system being very similar to AdWords. Also, I was told that the max legnth for titles will be 40 characters and the max length for descriptions will remain at 190, with truncated ads showing the first 70 characters. Negative keywords will work similar to Google and dynamic keyword insertion at the ad level will be similar to Google as well.
PPC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2006   #7
AussieWebmaster
Forums Editor, SearchEngineWatch
 
AussieWebmaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: NYC
Posts: 8,153
AussieWebmaster has a brilliant futureAussieWebmaster has a brilliant futureAussieWebmaster has a brilliant futureAussieWebmaster has a brilliant futureAussieWebmaster has a brilliant futureAussieWebmaster has a brilliant futureAussieWebmaster has a brilliant futureAussieWebmaster has a brilliant futureAussieWebmaster has a brilliant futureAussieWebmaster has a brilliant futureAussieWebmaster has a brilliant future
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mel66
I spoke with a Yahoo rep yesterday, and he actually said, verbatim, "Our new account structure will be basically the same as Google, with Campaigns, Ad Groups, and Keywords."

Which is fine, and good - I just thought it was funny he said it would be "the same as Google."

Melissa
Yeah it is time for Yahoo to pay Google back the money they were given for the PPC stuff in the first place.
AussieWebmaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2006   #8
wasatch27
Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 30
wasatch27 is on a distinguished road
Will it help...

bring my Yahoo campaigns back to life? Their slow death has been painful to watch lately.
wasatch27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2006   #9
Gooner151078
Online-Marketing-Manager.co.uk
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 155
Gooner151078 is a jewel in the roughGooner151078 is a jewel in the roughGooner151078 is a jewel in the roughGooner151078 is a jewel in the rough
There will be loss in transparency as they move away from a simple bidding model to something more akin to the G algorithm. This will be replaced by a quality score rated one to five.

By 2009 they also hope to have a fully integrated interface so that advertisers using mobile, content networks, Kelkoo and PPC can access their accounts in one easy place. At least thats the idea.

Now that MSN has entered the UK market, I have seen a significant drop off in my Yahoo! campaigns. How does everyone see the role of Yahoo! going forward?
Gooner151078 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2006   #10
graboid
Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 2
graboid is on a distinguished road
International Traffic

I just can't wait until we'll be able to geo-target...hopefully that will curb the tons of Int'l traffic we receive which is a constant waste of money. Anyone else have the same issue? Yahoo has always taken the stance that they don't know where there internationl traffic comes from (which is BS to me) and after providing them many many log files showing India as the source of most of it they have always said they can't do anything. I just hope Panama helps in this regard. Because so far Yahoo has taken NO stances to target traffic accordingly and they know that advertisers have to take the good with the bad...at least for the time being.
graboid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2006   #11
sung2001
Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 4
sung2001 is on a distinguished road
What about match types?? Does anyone know if Yahoo is going to have phrase match as an option?
sung2001 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2006   #12
Discovery
Jerry Nordstrom
 
Discovery's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: San Diego
Posts: 1,029
Discovery has much to be proud ofDiscovery has much to be proud ofDiscovery has much to be proud ofDiscovery has much to be proud ofDiscovery has much to be proud ofDiscovery has much to be proud ofDiscovery has much to be proud ofDiscovery has much to be proud ofDiscovery has much to be proud ofDiscovery has much to be proud of
I composed a response to this news when it came out.. then did as we all do from time to time.. trashed the bitter content and waited a few days to send a more even toned message.

I'm glad they copied Google and Not Ask.com!

The features they offer are features that have been available in all other SE
s for some time - even the 2nd tiers. This is not a "New Sponsored Search", it is and attempt to plug the gaping hole in a boat to keep it afloat and somewhat in the race with their competitors. YSM has barely come up to snuff with this patch.

If YSM doesn’t address their click fraud issues and provide domain blocking to the advertiser, then the new features are a mute point. You stand to lose any gains from the “new features” through click fraud.

If your ad budget is under 2k/month you may not notice the magnitude of the click fraud/junk clicks going on. So this post may not resonate with you. But be sure to know that as a % you are losing the same amount of profit as we are. As you grow you will come to know how much doing business with YSM has cost you. The frustration you’re hearing from me, is that YSM doesn’t want to work with us, they want to hide, deny and delay addressing the issue. We lose money and the make huge profits as they do so.

Perhaps YSM can no longer offer this type of filtering/exclusion/blocking because if they did advertisers would see the vast difference between when we have blocking and when we didn’t. The lawsuits would FLY! HMMM let me think, is that why we are being Opted INTO the YSM lawsuit created by their lawyers that would let them off the hook for ALL click fraud activity for the past 6 years? Perhaps they need to sneak that by us before they offer click fraud tools?

Wow, and you should have seen the first attempt at this post.
Discovery is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2006   #13
Maestro
Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Portland
Posts: 4
Maestro is on a distinguished road
agreed.

I remember losing upwards to thousands daily because of various problems with YSM, the main culprit being their janky budgeting tool. that thing is the biggest lie i'd ever seen, any changes and your entire campaign is thrown out of whack as it "smoothes the average over the month." funny thing is, by the description on their own website the ol' budgeting tool was supposed to work as one would expect (e.g. not allow you to go over a daily budget and when adjusted, parse traffic from that point forward) instead it would pump you with traffic (or drop you out) over a 2-3 day period.

I'm not sure whether they fixed this or not, i haven't been advertising on Y! for at least 3 months, but if Panama fixed that, i'd return happily.
Maestro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2006   #14
AnthonyCea
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 180
AnthonyCea can only hope to improve
Question

Can you all explain what Panama means to people new to the subject and post some basic information here?
AnthonyCea is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2006   #15
Discovery
Jerry Nordstrom
 
Discovery's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: San Diego
Posts: 1,029
Discovery has much to be proud ofDiscovery has much to be proud ofDiscovery has much to be proud ofDiscovery has much to be proud ofDiscovery has much to be proud ofDiscovery has much to be proud ofDiscovery has much to be proud ofDiscovery has much to be proud ofDiscovery has much to be proud ofDiscovery has much to be proud of
A quick and loose summary

Overture Started Pay Per Click for the most part.
They had an online system to manage ads and bids called Direct Traffic Center (DTC). It was built for that time period and using what was the latest and greatest tech. back then.

Yahoo buys out overture to jump into the PPC game.

The Direct Traffic Center is quickly becoming outdated and running into platform problems that were not anticipated when first created. Stability being a major concern.

Entre Google - Now builds a stable platform with all the latest tools and has a network of HIGH quality visitors.

Yahoo gets worried and promises the world to fix the DTC.
For two years nothing changes, except the level of click fruad.

Entre MSN
MSN's Adcenter hits the market and with an abundance of new features for PPC advertisers. Even Google is impressed and updates their system to include similar tools.

Yahoo now looks even farther behind the pack.. and is.

YSM announces that the DTC will be replaced with a "new" interface/platform for advertisers to use. This new "system" is called Panama. They touted its benefits, features and launched date for nearly a year. Then missed their deadline to deliver the goods.

Now they are ready to release Panama to the masses. But the "new application" only offers basic tools that have been readily available in the other SE offerings for over a year. They scapped or have decided to launch later much needed tools such as domain name exclusion.

So what is Panama? - it is code for Yahoo trying to dig through a mountain of bad press to build a new path to its long disgruntled customer base. Lets hope this time they dont suffer the same consequences as the French.

Discovery
Discovery is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2006   #16
AnthonyCea
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 180
AnthonyCea can only hope to improve
OK, thanks man, you guys had me lost reading this thread!
AnthonyCea is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2006   #17
rustybrick
 
rustybrick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: New York, USA
Posts: 2,810
rustybrick has much to be proud ofrustybrick has much to be proud ofrustybrick has much to be proud ofrustybrick has much to be proud ofrustybrick has much to be proud ofrustybrick has much to be proud ofrustybrick has much to be proud ofrustybrick has much to be proud of
Quote:
Originally Posted by Discovery
So what is Panama? - it is code for Yahoo trying to dig through a mountain of bad press to build a new path to its long disgruntled customer base. Lets hope this time they dont suffer the same consequences as the French.

Yea, funny Discovery.

Technically, the term "Panama" is just an internal code name used by Yahoo! that became public back with a New York Times article in May. Since then more and more rumors came out about what it is and when it will be here.

In short, it is Yahoo's new ad system that has had a delayed release, upon an other delayed release that hurt them both with customers, competition and hurt the stock price.

One thing for sure, Project Panama has huge expectations now. Much more than it had when it was first leaked.
rustybrick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2006   #18
andrewgoodman
 
andrewgoodman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Toronto
Posts: 637
andrewgoodman is a name known to allandrewgoodman is a name known to allandrewgoodman is a name known to allandrewgoodman is a name known to allandrewgoodman is a name known to allandrewgoodman is a name known to all
Quote:
Originally Posted by AussieWebmaster
Yeah it is time for Yahoo to pay Google back the money they were given for the PPC stuff in the first place.
Hehe, that's a good one.
andrewgoodman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2006   #19
Mel66
Oversees: Google AdWords
 
Mel66's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Michigan
Posts: 775
Mel66 has much to be proud ofMel66 has much to be proud ofMel66 has much to be proud ofMel66 has much to be proud ofMel66 has much to be proud ofMel66 has much to be proud ofMel66 has much to be proud ofMel66 has much to be proud ofMel66 has much to be proud of
I wish Yahoo would hurry up and get their crap together. Has anyone logged into the DTC this week? What a disaster. Their most recent upgrade seems to have totally broken their site code - instead of information boxes and links on the pages, there is broken code and jsp errors all over the place. Furthermore, you can't edit, add, or delete listings; nor can you see the Editorial Status section AT ALL. What a joke! And how long does it take to fix this??? It was fine last week - what the heck did you break so badly, Yahoo??

{singing: "Ain't nothin' like it, a shiny machine..... Panama, Panama-aa...."}



Melissa
Mel66 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2006   #20
AussieWebmaster
Forums Editor, SearchEngineWatch
 
AussieWebmaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: NYC
Posts: 8,153
AussieWebmaster has a brilliant futureAussieWebmaster has a brilliant futureAussieWebmaster has a brilliant futureAussieWebmaster has a brilliant futureAussieWebmaster has a brilliant futureAussieWebmaster has a brilliant futureAussieWebmaster has a brilliant futureAussieWebmaster has a brilliant futureAussieWebmaster has a brilliant futureAussieWebmaster has a brilliant futureAussieWebmaster has a brilliant future
You have a nice singing voice Mel!!!
AussieWebmaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off