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Old 09-07-2006   #1
g7submit
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Exclamation What's Happening With Match Types?

I was running a campaign for a client and due to the none-so-user-friendliness of the Adcenter, I decided to use Phrase match for the whole campaign except one keyword. To my surprise, their system automatically added the Exact match types as well! Instead of a cute 40 keyword campaign, it balloned into 80-something. Has anyone had this same problem?
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Old 10-04-2006   #2
Gooner151078
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Yes - this has been a big problem for me too. Especially as I don't generally like to use broad match. Luckily the relatively cheap cpc's on MSN mean that I am not that overly concerned. The small list of available negative match keywords also means that for my generic "product", I am at this point the no1 result for worst "product" ever etc.

I am meeting with MSN but with what confidence can you be assured that they are working on it?

I also have issues with trademarks and arbitrage sites.
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Old 10-05-2006   #3
adCenterEU
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Hi g7submit

I am having difficulty reproducing the behaviour you are seeing on my adCenter campaigns.

So I can try and help, can you outline the exact repro-steps you are taking for this to occur?

Are you entering KWs manually or via the import tool?

Let me know - We're keen to sort this out for you!

Cheers

adCenterEU
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Old 10-05-2006   #4
SpeedyPin
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Question Using All 3 Match Types

Does this have anything to do with the fact that you can run all three match-types simultaneously (all 3 checked).

Is MSN telling us that an ad will show better and incurr a less costly click (i.e. more relevant) if for example, a visitor queries "cool blue widgets" and I have selected all 3 match types (or just exact match) for this keyowrd versus an advertiser who only uses broad match?

- Eric Itzkowitz
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Old 10-06-2006   #5
g7submit
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Hi adCenterEU

It's really cool to have your voice around, however, I hope this has not become too late on this issue...... I wish I could mention the exact account so that you can verify what I am saying, but due to my contractual agreement with this client, I can't (although I don't manage the client's account anymore, but I do honor agreements).

Initially, I had the same response from some of your colleagues, and one of them took me on about the issue, we both went through the account, starting from the setup through the match types.... then generated the reports and from the reports we both saw what I was saying in black and white.

He was shocked and apologised; he concluded that the best he could do was escalate the problem. Now, I will give you clues to tracking this problem if you check with your Liverpool (UK) call center, you can track it down..... another clue is if you mention John (formerly with PG....), they might know quickly, .

In any case, I believe that your systems has a great potential if the bugs can be sorted out, and the earlier the better. If you check my previous posts, you will discover that I am a supporter of AdCenter, though not a die-hard fan.

You said, "I am having difficulty reproducing the behaviour you are seeing on my adCenter campaigns."

Well, create a new campaign from scratch and in the match type specifically use the phrase match, I am very sure you will see this result IN your report - I guess you were actually looking at the GUI to see if this had automatically clicked itself. No, you get to see this problem in the reports.

I hope this helps,
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Old 10-06-2006   #6
quiche
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I don't get it

Why is this a problem? Forgive my ignorance, as I have little knowledge of the inner workings of MSN AdCenter, but does it not work in the same way as Google?

What I mean is, surely it's better to have both the phrase match and exact match versions of a keywords because MSN will always return the most relevant (but not both) version of a keyword in response to a user's search. Additionally, in Google exact match results get prioritised/rewarded with higher click cost discounts than their broad match counterparts.

Am I mistaken, or are MSN actually providing a service here?
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Old 10-06-2006   #7
g7submit
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separate match types

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpeedyPin
Does this have anything to do with the fact that you can run all three match-types simultaneously (all 3 checked).........

- Eric Itzkowitz
Hi SpeedyPin and Gooner151078

I hope my answer here will help both of you, if you don't mind.

Now, when I started noticing this problem and no solution was coming my way quickly, I had to think ahead of the AdCenter bugs or poor pragramming or whatever..... I told you, Google has spoilt ALL of us enough, not to appreciate the efforts of MSN programmers..... what I did was to separate phrase matches from exact matches and group them accordingly as separate "orders", then monitor each keyword with it's own tracker.

I avoid using broad match entirely, except when I am experimenting. If you don't untick broad match, it will be selected for you, automatically, by the MSN AdCenter system.

So, separating your match types will, at this moment, only reduce your pain, it won't cure it, especially when you run your reports.

So, to answer your question in one word, SpeedyPin, yes, you can run the different match types at once, and you get different results, almost like Google.
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Old 10-06-2006   #8
adCenterEU
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Hi g7submit

I hope I'm understanding you correctly when I say the issue is with the delivery reports?

Let's say you select only Phrase match for the KW "cheap flights"

When you run a delivery report for that KW you might see some impressions attributed to Exact and some to Phrase. This is because your ad has been triggered by an exact match to the user query "cheap flights" but also to phrase match if a user has queried "cheap flights paris"

If you select Broad Match the reports will again break down the delivery of your ads into Exact, Phrase and Broad so you can use this data to further refine your campaign.

Does this answer your query?

adCenter EU

PS - Thanks for the kind welcome BTW - It's good to be here supporting you guys.
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Old 10-07-2006   #9
g7submit
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Hi adCenterEU

Yes, you got the point. But that leaves the account manager with a problem. For the account I was running, as an example, I was monitoring each keyword with individual trackers: exact match has its own tracker number, which is different from phrase match's tracker number.

Now when you produce your report, you will get two exact match types with two different results in, possibly, different "orders". This result will definitely produce an inaccurate report, because the results of KWs you are trying to monitor for the best performances would have been compromised.

With due respect to you and your colleagues at AdCenter, this does not happen with either Google or Yahoo.

So how do you solve such a problem?

My feeling is that if this algorithm is not changed, it will always produce inaccurate results for savvy advertisers.

In the explanation you made, "....This is because your ad has been triggered by an exact match to the user query "cheap flights" but also to phrase match if a user has queried "cheap flights paris.....", This type of triggers should ONLY be effected by broad match types, because if an advertiser wants his ad to show for only a phrase match, it should remain that way. He must have a reason for picking phrase match in his setup and not exact match; your system should not "help" him to trigger a match type he did not choose.
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Old 10-07-2006   #10
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Smile Remove the Match Type When You Run Your Report...

When you run a keyword performance report it will by default show which match type the searcher was using. That being said there is a way to combine the data by removing the match type field in the report.

When you bid only on a phrase match you can still have an exact match and have the ad show up, since that phrase was typed in as the keyword. In order to consolidate this in the report you need to do the following:

1. Before running the report, click on "Customize the Report"
2. Click on the radio button to change the appearance of the columns in the report
3. Remove "Match Type" from the Selected Columns box.
4. Then run the report

This will consolidate the data for you. Hope that helps.
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