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Old 05-31-2006   #1
FDJA
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How do we fight back against the Google Monster?

I read somewhere in this forum that it is surprising that the media and general public are not aware of Google's technical issues which are devastating small businesses (and probably big ones too), who have relied on Google year after year to turn up relevant results. The end user of the search engine is also cheated, because the search results deemed relevant are so out of whack.

So how do we fight back against the Google Monster? Or is that too much like biting the hand that feeds?

Sure, I'm upset that Google results for my web sites are all goofed up, but I'm sure I'm just one of millions of voices of companies and web masters experiencing the same thing. We've spent countless hours and years perfecting Google friendly sites only to have them disappear from Google's index. Joe Public has started to trust and count on Google's relevancy, which is now gone.

SO what can we do? Anyone know how to start one of those emails that goes around the World and everyone Forwards? Maybe it'll reach someone's inbox who can get this thing public.
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Old 05-31-2006   #2
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What exactly are you trying to achieve by doing this?
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Old 05-31-2006   #3
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Originally Posted by webkidsan
What exactly are you trying to achieve by doing this?
I apologize, I assumed that this would be self explanatory.

To put the control back in the people's hands. People made Google popular, they can make it unpopular too. At least long enough for Google to get a clue. They have a God complex... Their stocks are high and the general consensus is that they're the greatest. I have no issue with this, if it were the same Google we had months ago. Remember the Google that was not battling with Yahoo for the World's most irrelavant search terms? The Google we could type in a search phrase and get the most logical results, (as long as we looked beyond the sponsored ads).

Remember the Google that set the standard for designing search friendly pages? The Google that had predictable results and seemed incredible? Remeber the Google that remembered pages better than the webmaster who made them? I can remember not so long ago, when there was such a Google.

Then came gmail, enterprise and a couple dozen other useless features came that remind us all of Microsoft's half developed software, (at least they call it all Beta)... Now as if all that wasn't enough they lose perfectly indexed pages and put perfectly relevant sites in the dumper to make room for what???

All I'm saying is that people ought to know. Google ought to know. WE DON'T NEED GOOGLE... Google needs us and they'd be wise to remeber that before they become another EnRon.
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Old 05-31-2006   #4
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They are working on it and sites are being re-indexed if they are good sites, hang in there and follow Google webmaster guidelines and stay far away from link spamming!
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Old 05-31-2006   #5
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Originally Posted by AnthonyCea
They are working on it and sites are being re-indexed if they are good sites, hang in there and follow Google webmaster guidelines and stay far away from link spamming!
How do you know??? And who determines if a site is a "good site"? Google mandates that anyone who wants a fighting chance of getting the top results much have back links, (which is totally stupid, because back links have nothing to do with relevancy whatsoever). At what point is enough enough?
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Old 05-31-2006   #6
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To put the control back in the people's hands. People made Google popular, they can make it unpopular too.
For one thing, the people don't own the search engine, with the exception of the stockholders and there are other ways they can make their voice heard. The people have no right to "control" anything that doesn't belong to them, nor did they ever have any control over Google or any other company - all they did was vote with their mouse clicks.

Secondly, the people made Google popular because they liked the search results (and the simple, uncluttered interface) and most important, found what they were looking for. If they stop liking it and stop finding what they're looking for, all they have to do is go elsewhere for their searches.
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Old 05-31-2006   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FDJA
How do you know??? And who determines if a site is a "good site"? Google mandates that anyone who wants a fighting chance of getting the top results much have back links, (which is totally stupid, because back links have nothing to do with relevancy whatsoever). At what point is enough enough?

If you create valuable content others will link to it, this is called organic SEO and it works, the higher value your content is, the more people that link to it, I link to many pages with high value using anchor text everyday!

Those are backlinks, but no one paid me for them!
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Old 05-31-2006   #8
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because back links have nothing to do with relevancy whatsoever
Except that most high quality sites won't link to a site that's not relevant to what they're being linked to for. So to a big extent, legitimate links are somewhat of a measure for relevancy.

Another very important point is that relevancy of pages is not the only measure used in scoring. Both on-page relevancy and importance are taken into consideration and factored in.

Importance is a link/citation based metric, and started being included in the scoring criteria by most, if not all, search engines years ago, especially valuable because there was so much abuse (i.e. keyword stuffing) being used to artificially inflate the appearance of on-page relevancy.
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Old 05-31-2006   #9
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Goog V half a billion webmasters

99% of GOOG revenue is from selling links. Its toughest competitor is not Yahoo or Microsoft or Ask. The all powerful and overwhelming competition to GOOG is the upcoming potential of half a billion webmasters that work beyond the control of Google and Microsoft and Ask et al.

Before we reach that half a billion mark, Google has a chance to disuade webmasters from reciprocal links or link buying/selling or linking out to other sites by using their algorithm to kill the traffic going to those sites.

Later, when webmasters realize that they have more power than any one and even all search engines combined, they will buy and sell links, endorse other sites by linking out to them and trade traffic by swapping links. They will become the dominant voice directing traffic across the internet and finally earn a fair and due share of revenue now being horded by search engines.

And click fraud will never again move money from a web site to a search engine. Bidding for clicks will become a bad joke. Paid links will price on actual traffic flow and endorsement value and visitors will be real people following a free or paid endorsement from one website to another.
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Old 05-31-2006   #10
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biting the hand that feeds

Your biting the hand that feeds.

You need to use your energy in a positive manner, whining (it's true) on these boards will get you no closer to ranking (sorry to say).

Go do some research, learn what has happened, adapt your site and get ahead of the pack. Links and content.

Google owes you nothing. Don't get left behind.

These latest updates not only have not affected some, but a lot of sites have moved up. Google is getting smarter (dare I say it), and you now have to live with that no matter what your feelings are towards the issue.

Part of life in the SEO world, either use it as a learning curve or get left behind.

either self learn - start here - http://forums.searchenginewatch.com/...ead.php?t=2616

or hire a professional seo to tell you why your ranking dropped.

Best of luck!
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Old 05-31-2006   #11
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airtravelcenter,

I think your forgetting the fact that when one ranking drops, another moves up.

Some people are actually happy with this update, and you won't find them posting in the forums. Educate yourself or get some paid help (proper seo advice not PPCrap), whining is simply a waste of energy.
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Old 06-01-2006   #12
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*I'm upset that Google results for my web sites are all goofed up*

From what I've seen, it could be argued you rather than G "goofed up" ;-)
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Old 06-01-2006   #13
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Marcia, Anthonycea, Airtravelcenter, Wilksy, Glengara - Not Whining!

I appreciate your responses I really do, there are some other SEO forums I visit that I rarely ever see responses to anyone's posts. So, first thanks for participating in the thread... I just want to try to address some of the replies especially by Marcia, Glengara and Wilksy...

Marcia, not sure where the whole "people don't own Google" thing came from... Maybe you just breezed through my thread - I'm guilty of that from time to time as well. The paragraph you replied to said the same thing you did, but with a different tone. Since we're talking about capitalism ultimately, popularity is control. Shareholders and Corp Execs may go day to day thinking they have control, but in the end the people decide... (Metaphorically speaking). And yes I know how reciprocal link strategy works... But that still does not make sites that are linked to, (even from a high quality site) anymore relevant - I mean honestly.

Anthony, I completely agree that there are SOME cases where back links, might enforce popularity, such as when I typed in "Google Problems" into google and found this forum... I was looking for information on Google Problems. By me linking to Google Problems with a text link I can create artificial organic SEO, true. Linking to a particular page, (web address) from within an indexed site can increase relevancy of the page pointed to and the page pointed from. Additionally, or perhaps primarily, siders can crawl both directions from site to site. I say "artificial organic seo" because that's all it really is 99% of the time. Hypothetically this will deem importance to a site or sites(s) because somewhere at another site, someone is talking about or recommending something at that other site. In practice, every web master knows about this strategy so they link to things they want to show up well during searches using key phrase text... duh. EVEN if web masters did not exploit it, this type of SEO is still biased to those subjects in life which are worth purposely taking the time to link to! There are many, many, many things in life that are important and relevant, yet no one will ever link to them. Does that make them less relevant? With so many things to link to, how can one really be that much better than the other?

Airtravelcenter... Hmmm - Kind of out in left field there huh? Whew where did that come from? Sound like you have some issues with the legitimacy of sponsored ads and the PPC fraud... Yeah me too. I recently got burned big time when my Yahoo account was drained in less than 2 minutes while some PITA used his email harvester or WebPosition software on one of my keyphrases. I was really talking about more organic stuff.

Wilksy, I'm not whiiiinnning .. just to whine. I'm trying to create a stir to get some buzz going about these issues. Google has people all over these forums and everywhere else. What I was actually hoping is that "Google Employees" would eventually hear the buzz and get a clue that their search engine is broken. The more people talk about it, the more chances of them figuring out they have a problem. It's obvious they don't test it themselves and God knows their support is a joke. As a matter of fact "what support"? How can a huge company like Google not even have a telephone number or way to contact someone directly? The only people you can talk to are sales reps and AdWord trolls. What I'm talking about is not SEO learning curves, I'm talking about HUGE CHUNKS of DATA disappearing and therefore causing much of the chaos we're now witnessing.

Glengara, I did'nt goof up anything... I run a Top 100K site that's over 4 years old. The format, coding and strategy is the same. What I'm referring to is 60+% of my site disappearing from Googles data center. I'm talking about my page rank going from 5 to zip. I'm talking about my reciprocal links going from 17000+ to literally zero. I'm talking about the subsequent Alexa drop of 70k to 100K - NO... I'm afraid this is Google's Goof - I have plenty of my own goofs I'm more than happy to own up to. Perhaps Google could get a new name "Goofle"...

Last edited by FDJA : 06-01-2006 at 01:14 PM.
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Old 06-01-2006   #14
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Hi FDJA

A (belated) welcome to SEW forums.

Quote:
..I run a Top 100K site that's over 4 years old. The format, coding and strategy is the same. What I'm referring to is 60+% of my site disappearing from Googles data center. I'm talking about my page rank going from 5 to zip. I'm talking about my reciprocal links going from 17000+ to literally zero. I'm talking about the subsequent Alexa drop of 70k to 100K...
Are you refering to the site in your profile? Or another site?
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Old 06-01-2006   #15
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The whole point in a nut-shell

Just to clarify a bit... My original thread of How do we fight back against the Google Monster? was really a call to arms more than anything else.

Don't get me wrong... I totally appreciate all that Google has done for my sites over the years. Their requirements for high ranking positions have made me a better web master for sure. I need to mention that because I've read posts on other forums where it seems the poster just hates Google because their site won't show up good. That's not me. I get the rankings I deserve and Google has shown me that over the years and I've adapted to make sure my stuff gets found.

Unfortunately right now, we're not talking about the Google of old. Google has evolved into a profit seeking beast, no doubt in direct connection with their current stock status. That's the problem with any traded company, especially those that have value surges. They become the slave to their own shareholders. They HAVE TO forget about mission and value for consumer, simply to address current demands for share value, net worth and other crap.

Here's the deal. Google's big now. SO big, they have a dramatic influence on the World's economy and a billion personal economies. It's because of this position that they need to think before they react. Analyze before they make changes. That's just not the nature of the beast though. How does a fly by the seat of your pants company which yields new ideas like they're in a race for the World's most innovative company competition, slow down enough to respect what they have and apply changes that don't adversely effect those who rely on them? They cant... That's a job for a big slow growing company. The kind filled with red tape and where new ideas collect dust long before they're implemented. Not so great for Hollywood movies but much more reliable. Ambition killing big corporate companies, while despised, are still the best model because they offer security for clients and shareholders. Comparitively speaking, Google is like a teenager with ADD, hopped up on crack, running for class president.

Google is now faced with the necessity of being focused on revenue and subsequent perceived value, which is the complete opposite of what they used to be or have the capacity to be. Like trying to train a coyote to guard the chicken coop, it's just not in their blood... Google is an innovative company with cutting edge ideas that get implemented seemingly overnight. Google is trying to fit in shoes that are the wrong size. When trying to make a better search engine with the roll out of Big Daddy, they just simply tried to do what they know how to do best, while trying to generate more profit for shareholders. They forgot billions of people around the World we're counting on them.

Do I blame them? No, of course not... That is the natural evolution of a traded company. They get bigger and bigger until they bust, or sell whichever comes first. Until then, unless the end using public or web mastering cyber community interjects, they''ll no doubt keep implementing bone-headed knee jerk ideas like "Big Daddy", which might be the best thing since the invention of the wheel, but the fact remains that they are destroying millions of businesses in the process, by knocking out their web sites while the search engine is still available for public use! Like I said, they need to be more responsible than that. At least make a public announcement that the search engine will be down for several months while they make technical improvements and hang an "Out of Order" sign on the home page, so Joe Q. Public knows to use one of the other search engines that still work right.
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Old 06-01-2006   #16
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Hello Chris

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris_D
Hi FDJA

A (belated) welcome to SEW forums.


Are you refering to the site in your profile? Or another site?
Thanks for the welcome... And yes you are correct it's the one in the profile.
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Old 06-01-2006   #17
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You mentioned one thing, you mentioned "I'm talking about my reciprocal links going from 17000+ to literally zero"

How did you work all those reciprocal links man

PS: Don't you think that might be one reason for your troubles
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Old 06-01-2006   #18
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*Glengara, I did'nt goof up anything.... And yes you are correct it's the one in the profile.*

I'd warrant a cynical examination of your linkage might well point towards a "links scheme designed to improve PR or rankings"...
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Old 06-01-2006   #19
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Red face

Who said massive amounts of automated reciprocal links were good in the first place or reciprocal link directory links for that matter

The problem here is that webmasters fall for just about every scheme they read about hook line and sinker on webmaster & SEO forums!
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Old 06-01-2006   #20
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Originally Posted by AnthonyCea
Who said massive amounts of automated reciprocal links were good in the first place or reciprocal link directory links for that matter

The problem here is that webmasters fall for just about every scheme they read about hook line and sinker on webmaster & SEO forums!
I've heard they were not good. Nothing on my site is automated, nor do I participate in auto link sites.
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