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Old 03-05-2006   #1
millington
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Why such high Page Rank?

Visiting the website www.ncac.com, I was surprised to see it has a high Page Rank of 7, with only 37 backward links. And the links were from pretty ordinary sites, the linking pages having Page Ranks of typically 2 to 4.

Any idea why this site has such a high Page Rank, with only 37 backward links?
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Old 03-05-2006   #2
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Google only shows a small random sampling of backlinks. Here's a more thorough count - there are a lot more:

http://search.yahoo.com/search?ei=ut...ain%3ancac.com

For starters, here's a quality PR7 link right off. Add all the other links on and it all adds up

http://asa.aip.org/links.soc.html

Last edited by Marcia : 03-05-2006 at 05:02 AM.
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Old 03-05-2006   #3
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Thank you Marcia

Thank you Marcia. If one wants to find out the actual number of backlinks for a URL, is the best way to go to Yahoo and put linkdomain:URL into the search window? I had not realised Google only gives a selection of backlinks.
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Old 03-05-2006   #4
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I know, my site only shows 7 backlinks on google, but 146 on yahoo. However, yahoo doesn't even show them all since I know of lots that aren't listed there either. Is there any backlink checker that will show ALL you backlinks? I have not found one yet.
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Old 03-05-2006   #5
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Keep in mind that a search engine does not, and can not, show you all your backlinks.

All it can show you, at best, is the backlinks it knows about. If that happens to match the actual number of backlinks you have, then, frankly, you are in the minority, and may want to start doing more link building - your link building should always be ahead of a search engines link finding, IMO.

Trivia: Google was started as "backrub", because the founders wanted to do exactly what you want - to find out who was linking to them. In order to do that, they needed to index the web and the links between the sites. Thus Google started.

It's ironic that Google is now the search engine LEAST likely to answer the question for which it was originally created to answer in the first place!

As for Googles reluctance to report backlinks, Danny, myself and several others here are SEW took them to task and managed to convince them to at least stop lying about it.

But they didn't fix it - now they just admit it's broken....

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Old 03-05-2006   #6
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Ian, thanks for the thorough response, very interesting reading.
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Old 03-08-2006   #7
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Wink Also take Toolbar PR with a grain of salt

And don't get too caught up in the PageRank as it is displayed in the toolbar. More and more I'm getting the impression that some Google engineers are just playing a giant practical joke on us.

Some of the data centers are giving my personal blog a TBPR of 5/10, which is just ludicrous to me. Even if there are twice or three times as many unique sites linking to it than I'm aware of, that still wouldn't justify a PR5. I.e., my own toolbar PR is grossly inflated ... but that hasn't affected my rankings at all.

I'd focus more on the thematic relevance of the sites than their TBPR when trying to determine how much link value they have.
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Old 03-09-2006   #8
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Popularity is also an issue. The more people visit a page these days then the more quickly it'll gain a medium high PageRank.
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Old 03-09-2006   #9
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Quote:
Popularity is also an issue. The more people visit a page these days then the more quickly it'll gain a medium high PageRank.
Nope, not so! PR is still *mathematically* based on linkage, like it's always been.

Usage statistics may figure into scoring for sites, but not where PageRank is concerned.
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Old 03-10-2006   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcia
Nope, not so! PR is still *mathematically* based on linkage, like it's always been.

Usage statistics may figure into scoring for sites, but not where PageRank is concerned.
I know that my comment is radically different from what's popularly believed but Marcia I trust we can agree to disagree. I'm right.
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Old 03-10-2006   #11
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I'm right
And how about the source? Any documents out there backing up such a theory?
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Old 03-10-2006   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcia
And how about the source? Any documents out there backing up such a theory?
Oh gosh no. Don't make me the first one ever in SEO forum history to have to back up a wild claim. Anything I write here is my own personal opinion. I may have research which leads to me form this opinion but in good SEO tradition I get to express my opinion without having to share the research.

If we were all to become scientists and engineers then there would be no room left for webmasters who make pages look pretty with Dreamweaver and free-thinking marketeers!
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Old 03-10-2006   #13
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Yep, you get to share your opinion. If you can't back it up, it remains that, an opinion.

I've never seen Google suggest that PageRank is influenced by visits. Nada.

You're the first person I've ever heard suggesting the connection, at all.

I have heard suggestions that search engines might take visitation into account when assigning credit on how to weight web sites. Google seems to be clickthrough tracking everything these days, plus they've have visitation data that flows in from the toolbar. It wouldn't suprise me at all if these metrics are being used to influence rankings.

That's not exactly the same as being used to make the little PageRank meter show more, of course. Nor is it necessarily the same as adding to PageRank. PageRank might be one factor that remains based on counting links, while another PopularityRank factor, if you will, could be based on looking at visitation data.
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Old 03-10-2006   #14
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Originally Posted by dannysullivan
You're the first person I've ever heard suggesting the connection, at all.
Excellent! I'm going to bookmark this thread and hope to be able to cite it for bragging rights later on.

After being so open about how links influence their algorithm and seeing the huge rise of unnatural links that that caused I do suspect Google will be a lot more coy about sharing their current implementation.

That said, their 'historical data' patent application does hint at this.
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Old 03-10-2006   #15
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Nah, even before that historical data patent was issued - there was another granted back in 2002, when click tracking had already been observed for a while:

Methods and apparatus for employing usage statistics in document retrieval

Quote:
Yep, you get to share your opinion. If you can't back it up, it remains that, an opinion.
Which underlines the wisdom of keeping in mind, when reading unsubstantiated speculation in forum posts:

The Law of Logical Argument:
Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
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Old 03-12-2006   #16
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Do you mind if I borrow that quote from time to time (with proper attribution of course)
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Old 03-12-2006   #17
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Borrow away Mel, gratis. It originally came from one of those joke things that makes its way around the web that has a whole list of "laws" that are "only too true."
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Old 03-13-2006   #18
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Food for thought....

I was wondering what your interpretation of the following claim in Google patent is:

Quoted:
34. The method of claim 1, wherein the one or more types of history data includes information relating to traffic associated with documents; and wherein the generating a score includes: determining characteristics of traffic associated with the document, and scoring the document based, at least in part, on the characteristics of traffic associated with the document.
Unquoted.

Could it mean they might be watching your traffic level?

Nima
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Old 03-13-2006   #19
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nima, sure it's entirely possible that traffic stats are used in scoring - they've just got nothing to do with computing PageRank.
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Old 03-13-2006   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcia
nima, sure it's entirely possible that traffic stats are used in scoring - they've just got nothing to do with computing PageRank.
Marcia - Of course I agree. I'm thinking I need to say this before going on, because some wildly off-base opinions have been expressed here.

I've been thinking as I read the thread that it's possible that several of the posters don't know what PageRank is, and that it's different from rankings in the serps.

It's also possible that they don't know the difference between correlation and causality....

It's very likely, for example, that if a site is a good enough, more traffic will bring about an increase in the number of inbound links to the site, and that would in turn increase PageRank. The increase in traffic would correlate with the increase in PageRank, but the traffic stats themselves would not cause the increase in PageRank.

The number of visitors and the computation of PageRank are independent of each other. The end effects of the links that site visitors happen to direct to the site would be what causes the increase.
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