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Old 07-28-2004   #1
gail
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Question Links from Same IP Blocks

I have heard that links coming from the same IP's don't all get counted. Does anyone have any more info on this? How different do IP blocks need to be?
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Old 07-28-2004   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gail
I have heard that links coming from the same IP's don't all get counted. Does anyone have any more info on this? How different do IP blocks need to be?
It is believed SEPERATE C BLOCKS is what is necessary in order to achieve proper linking within your own network of sites.
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Old 07-28-2004   #3
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Hi, there.

This is discussed in this other SEW thread initiated by Danny.

Change To Link Bomb Sign Of New Link Analysis Shift?
http://forums.searchenginewatch.com/...read.php?t=700

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Old 07-28-2004   #4
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Arrow

Quote:
Originally Posted by critter
It is believed SEPERATE C BLOCKS is what is necessary in order to achieve proper linking within your own network of sites.
What is a separate C Block?
Can you show me the format?
Or an example.

Thanks!

BTW, if this is discussed already in a separate thread, I'd love to read it. The link above that ORION provided was a different subject. It was on TEXT link. Also, I did run a search for IP blocks prior to my post, but no one had posted or answered this question before that I could find.

Last edited by gail : 07-28-2004 at 02:49 PM.
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Old 07-28-2004   #5
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Take a look here
http://forums.searchenginewatch.com/...read.php?t=781

Cheers
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Old 07-28-2004   #6
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Hi, there.

Perhaps this may help a bit. The thread in question started about link bombing Google, then after post #15 (lots0) and #17 (Daniel Brandt, Everyman) it was diverted to CLASS C and IP/domain schemes. Now they are moving to % of occurrences and anchor text.

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Old 07-28-2004   #7
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Seperate C BLOCK, meaning the C CLASS of the IP needs to be unique within a commmon network if you want to do any cross linking between sites and not risk being penalized.

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Old 07-28-2004   #8
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Thumbs up Linking: IP blocks - Text Links - Backlinks

Okay, so the SEPARATE C block is the 3rd set of numbers in the IP address. (I feel like I am pulling teeth!)

Back to the original question....
If each link is coming from a DIFFERENT C block - the third set of numbers in the IP address - then they all should be counted. Right?

Anymore tips? Is it okay to have the same anchor text or should they ALL be different or some the same and some different?

I believe that a text link in the shared borders is really just counted as one link. What do you think? (I know they might all show in backlinks but I don't believe Google uses that number in their algo. I know they use a backlink number, just not the number that is displayed for SEO's.)
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Old 07-29-2004   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by critter
It is believed SEPERATE C BLOCKS is what is necessary
I like your wording, Critter. Everybody should be very cautious about this subject, because we lack evidence.

Gail, you asked a very good question .

In many cases, different sites have the same IP address ! And many, many sites can be hosted on the same C block... If you think about it, this "separate C block" issue would have some undesired effects... Like penalising legitimate cross linking between separate sites.

CIDR allows different sites, hosted in different places, even different countries, to share the same IP class !

This "separate C IP class" is a very old belief. I think it dates back at least to year 2001, and it's perhaps older than that. The probable origin is a misinterpretation of Hilltop Algorithm and localrank, and it came back last winter with blockrank algorithm presentation.

Googleguy denied this in December 2001. He denied this in 2002 too...
In 2003 he said (about blocking IPs)

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoogleGuy
We can do it, but we prefer not to. Virtual hosting means that innocent sites and spam sites can be on the same Class C block--or even on the same IP address. Besides, it's not so hard for a NastyJerk to move to a different hosting company. So in general we avoid this.
There is no penalty at all for cross linking inside the same C IP class. The algo is smarter than that. I emphasize "penalty", because I think perhaps some link structures are favoured by the algo, but "internal" cross linking is not penalized, in my opinion.

Last edited by cariboo : 07-29-2004 at 10:29 AM.
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Old 07-29-2004   #10
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Thanks for finding that cariboo; here's the original forum post the quote is from

Links from IP Blocks

It takes a closer look at Hilltop to see what's being used to identify links from independent, unaffiliated "expert" sites, which is a bit of a different matter. There's also a difference between something being penalized or just not counting.
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Old 07-29-2004   #11
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This is what my understanding of how and when certain links are devalued. I know Orion is going to kill me, because it is all hearsay, but its from a lot of discussion with smart link people.

Links and the anchor text associated with those links begin to lose their 'juice' as they are repeated over and over again on the same domain. So if you have a 500 page site, and on the footer you have a keyword phrase linking to page A, the 'juice' of that link is not as worthy as having them on 500 different domain names. Some people are suggesting that the links don't hurt you (well they can if your doing something 'evil') but they just do not continue to help beyond (lets say) 20 links.

So if you have 500 links from the same domain pointing to the same page. They will only count as ~20 links. If you had 500 links from different domains pointing to the same page. They will count as ~500 links.

That is my understanding of how links are devalued automatically.
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Old 07-29-2004   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rustybrick
So if you have 500 links from the same domain pointing to the same page. They will only count as ~20 links. If you had 500 links from different domains pointing to the same page. They will count as ~500 links.

That is my understanding of how links are devalued automatically.
So basically you belive there is a "cap" on the same domain linking structure?
Whatever that number is 20, 30, 40 but somewhere is a cut off point, am i correct ?

Cheers

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Old 07-29-2004   #13
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Inc, that is what I am hearing. It makes sense to me. Easier then IP blocks and is pretty fair from a link standpoint. Don't you think?
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Old 07-29-2004   #14
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I agree with you rusty,, good post


cheers

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Old 07-29-2004   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcia
It takes a closer look at Hilltop to see what's being used to identify links from independent, unaffiliated "expert" sites, which is a bit of a different matter.
I never thought Hilltop is a good candidate to explain all the changes observed by many people during last months... Especially when you deal with link evaluation...

But I don't reject clues given by the reading of papers about Hilltop. I think some ideas developed by Bharat could be in use now. But the algo must be very different now. I think the same about TPSR (topic sensitive pagerank) : it's unfeasable with an index of the size of Google's.

So I agree with you Marcia : Hilltop gives hints to build methods to make a smart algo, which would be able to evaluate a link structure and recognize good links from artificial links. And without relying on classes of IP ! And there are other ways to do it ...
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Old 07-29-2004   #16
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So if you have 500 links from the same domain pointing to the same page. They will only count as ~20 links.
Does it then follow that if I break my 500 links up into groups of ~20 that point at different pages within a domain they're given their full "juice"?

Also do you think this dampening factor applies to internal linking?


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Old 07-29-2004   #17
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To Rustybrick:

"I know Orion is going to kill me,..."

No, I will not. Your post is interesting.

My posts (above) deals with a three-way scheme that is outthere and described in the thread that discusses how Daniel Brandt (Google-Watch.org) is link-bombing Google.

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Old 07-29-2004   #18
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I am just kidding, O.
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Old 08-02-2004   #19
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orion
Quote:
diverted to CLASS C and IP/domain schemes. Now they are moving to % of occurrences and anchor text.
All three need a lot of attention right now; they're all related.

As many times as people are saying that the IP number doesn't matter, there are those who have a *lot* of experience with having their sites banned who are saying that for safety's sake it's best to have unique IPs in different C blocks. One such person has advised me personally to spread my sites around, which is a shame considering I've got reseller accounts and clean sites.

That's a hard pill to swallow when there's perfectly good empty hosting space already paid for and there's enough doubt and fear to feel that it's best to shop around and spread sites out even when there's really nothing wrong being done, but there are common connections.

Look how Teoma values "neighborhoods" and authority sites based on topical linking - that can often end up in a situation where a lot of sites have a lot of links in common, and it would be too bad if they'd run into trouble because of the fact of having commonalities in linking patterns just because of being connected by industry or market sector or niche.

Last edited by Marcia : 08-02-2004 at 01:33 PM.
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Old 08-02-2004   #20
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Hi Marcia.

I agree, all three are related and must be considered. That was my point to Everyman, just that he stated he use only one and I take his word as good. BTW, thanks for the link in the SEMPO thread. Good finding.

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