Search Engine Watch
SEO News

Go Back   Search Engine Watch Forums > Search Engines & Directories > Google > Google Web Search
FAQ Members List Calendar Forum Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 01-13-2005   #21
ThouShaltSeo
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 206
ThouShaltSeo is on a distinguished road
I only have a 301 on the rewrite level from domain-com to www-domain-com on my site. Other did "hijack" my site via 302 and meta-refresh. Their /jfheuhfeuhfu.cgi-or-php?go=955448454545 URL ended up with my index page cached. After dozens of calls and emails (to the site owners) I managed to remove them via Google's remove function and 404 errors.

However, many other scrapper sites have alredy linked with similar scripts and it's just a matter of time before their redirect URLs get indexed and my site penalized again. It will be a never-ending cycle unless Google intervenes by fixing it and by not having pages who have previously been affected suffer another 3-6 moths after the bug is fixed. It's the right thing to do.


Quote:
Originally Posted by seobook
was that in reference to others hijacking your site -or- on doing your own 302 redirects on yourself. not sure if it was that broad sweeping as any 302 sent to us has amnisty.

Last edited by ThouShaltSeo : 01-13-2005 at 03:50 PM.
ThouShaltSeo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2005   #22
ThouShaltSeo
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 206
ThouShaltSeo is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcia
Getting hijacked by a 302 is a different story. I've got a site hit by that tracker2.php thing and it's just tough luck on me for now. Not fair, but it'll have wait for Google to get their act together on it. Sites just need to survive on MSN & Yahoo in the meantime if that happens.
The title change confused people. Let me explain it really quick, again:

My site's index (with most of the inbound links) was "hijacked" via redirect scripts. I managed to remove them yet I'm still suffering from the preset time dupe penalty. I'm afraid that it will be a cycle since new 302 links will pop in and new "dupe" penalties will be levied. It becomes a cycle

Tracker2 is just ONE script that does that. In fact most scripts I have seen use 302. I got hit by similar scripts, with refresh and 302 redirects. see my previous post for more...

Last edited by ThouShaltSeo : 01-13-2005 at 04:04 PM.
ThouShaltSeo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2005   #23
Marcia
 
Marcia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 5,476
Marcia has a reputation beyond reputeMarcia has a reputation beyond reputeMarcia has a reputation beyond reputeMarcia has a reputation beyond reputeMarcia has a reputation beyond reputeMarcia has a reputation beyond reputeMarcia has a reputation beyond reputeMarcia has a reputation beyond reputeMarcia has a reputation beyond reputeMarcia has a reputation beyond reputeMarcia has a reputation beyond repute
OK, this was passed over and wasn't addressed right off so let's address it now:

Quote:
I fear that by the time the penalty expires, more 302 redirects will pop in and the cycle goes on.
Unfortunately, there are more of them springing up almost daily. You almost have to be afraid to rank for anything worthwhile anymore, any site that does is liable to be a victim.

I checked yesterday for a unique phrase of mine in quotes and there are now 34 pages out there that scraped my text, some with 302's. And EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM was running AdSense.
Marcia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2005   #24
ThouShaltSeo
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 206
ThouShaltSeo is on a distinguished road
That's what I'm saying Marcia. It will never end, plus it's adding insult to injury to have to suffer another 3-6 months after the issue is "solved" for a penalty that you did nothing wrong.

It's like having to do the same sentence after DNA test prove that you didn't do it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcia
OK, this was passed over and wasn't addressed right off so let's address it now:

Unfortunately, there are more of them springing up almost daily. You almost have to be afraid to rank for anything worthwhile anymore, any site that does is liable to be a victim.

I checked yesterday for a unique phrase of mine in quotes and there are now 34 pages out there that scraped my text, some with 302's. And EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM was running AdSense.
ThouShaltSeo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2005   #25
ticketking
 
Posts: n/a
On Dup. Content - question for you

On my web site, we use .asp includes that make up a lot of our sites.
We sell tickets and say for NBA, the pages are identical except
if you replace the team names, i.e. Los Angeles Lakers for Sacremento Kings,
that was the main difference in the page. I was worried that we would be held in SERP's because the content was only different by the keyword. So we added a little section with a paragraph about each team. Is this enough to distinguish the content? Or is using .asp includes unacceptable if the content is too similar. I heard GOOGLE can tell if you are using a template with very similar keywords...
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2005   #26
fathom
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada
Posts: 475
fathom is a jewel in the roughfathom is a jewel in the roughfathom is a jewel in the rough
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Hawley
How does Google know a page is a duplicate? With 8 Billion + out there, where would it even start. I can see how/why it would do a dupe check on one domain , but how can it cross-check 8 Billion pages on x million domains?

Isn't a 'mirror site' acceptable for server load and up-time consistency? Google don't seem to mention them as being outside their guidelines.
Dup'ed tends to apply to same page content on same website or same page page on different websites that are comonly linked.

There are tons of websites with identical content under a different design shell but they tend not to link to each other... that pretty much makes the difference.
fathom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2005   #27
fathom
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada
Posts: 475
fathom is a jewel in the roughfathom is a jewel in the roughfathom is a jewel in the rough
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThouShaltSeo
The title change confused people. Let me explain it really quick, again:

My site's index (with most of the inbound links) was "hijacked" via redirect scripts. I managed to remove them yet I'm still suffering from the preset time dupe penalty. I'm afraid that it will be a cycle since new 302 links will pop in and new "dupe" penalties will be levied. It becomes a cycle

Tracker2 is just ONE script that does that. In fact most scripts I have seen use 302. I got hit by similar scripts, with refresh and 302 redirects. see my previous post for more...
Well I don't believe you need to worry about a dup'ed penalty - the hijack part is something affecting 10s of thousands of websites and while it could be owner [you or someone else] induced more likely than not a Google problem.

Are you seeing something like this:

http://www.mmmaple.com [was a phpBB forum so the internal pages are rubbish]

hijacked by

http://www.consumersunion.org/espanol/

as noting in cache, backlinks, etc.

Also on the same server is http://www.spheri.ca [the server was hit with the webworn] which a page http://www.spheri.ca/directory/help.html also shows the same hijacking site http://www.consumersunion.org/espanol/ via cache, backlinks etc.

http://www.consumersunion.org didn't do anything to create this and alot of background information has forwarded to Google - they however do not appear to have an answer.

Anyway - how did you find out about the other's site 302 re-direct?

Is your situation vaguely similar the above? [forgetting the dup'ed content part]

Last edited by fathom : 01-14-2005 at 01:41 AM.
fathom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2005   #28
ThouShaltSeo
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 206
ThouShaltSeo is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by fathom
Well I don't believe you need to worry about a dup'ed penalty - the hijack part is something affecting 10s of thousands of websites and while it could be owner [you or someone else] induced more likely than not a Google problem.
I guess I'm just hallucinating when I don't see the visitors or the money coming in. As I said before, my problem is with 302 links (other sites linking my site with them) and penalties that I got because of those types of links.

In your case I replied to you in the other thread, someone seems to have pointed that domain to yours or viceversa (your domain pointed to theirs) while Google was crawling. There was this porno site who got fake PR10 by by redirecting their domain to Google during a crawl. By the next update they were gone.

Last edited by ThouShaltSeo : 01-14-2005 at 02:19 AM.
ThouShaltSeo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2005   #29
fathom
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada
Posts: 475
fathom is a jewel in the roughfathom is a jewel in the roughfathom is a jewel in the rough
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThouShaltSeo
I guess I'm just hallucinating when I don't see the visitors or the money coming in. As I said before, my problem is with 302 links (other sites linking my site with them) and penalties that I got because of those types of links.
hmmm...

http://forums.searchenginewatch.com/...9&page=2&pp=20

Unfortunately, I didn't piece this thread together with other threads.

Also unfortunate blind theortically discussions don't help.

Post a url, PM a url, or continue emailing google... I doubt anyone can truly help unless we can physically see what you are seeing.
fathom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2005   #30
Dave Hawley
Please remove heart from sleeve before replying
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Australia
Posts: 573
Dave Hawley will become famous soon enoughDave Hawley will become famous soon enough
Yes, a URL could make all the difference.
Dave Hawley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2005   #31
dannysullivan
Editor, SearchEngineLand.com (Info, Great Columns & Daily Recap Of Search News!)
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Search Engine Land
Posts: 2,085
dannysullivan has much to be proud ofdannysullivan has much to be proud ofdannysullivan has much to be proud ofdannysullivan has much to be proud ofdannysullivan has much to be proud ofdannysullivan has much to be proud ofdannysullivan has much to be proud ofdannysullivan has much to be proud of
By the way, I checked with Matt from Google on the 30-60-90 numbers thing. He emailed me this:

Quote:
I mentioned concrete numbers, but as a "for example" illustration. It's not a 30-60-90 day thing.
So, for example, an first offense might might go two weeks, a second six weeks. Exactly what the timing would be between offenses would be up to Google and might even vary depending on the site involved, it sounds like.
dannysullivan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2005   #32
fathom
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada
Posts: 475
fathom is a jewel in the roughfathom is a jewel in the roughfathom is a jewel in the rough
Quote:
Originally Posted by dannysullivan
By the way, I checked with Matt from Google on the 30-60-90 numbers thing. He emailed me this:


So, for example, an first offense might might go two weeks, a second six weeks. Exactly what the timing would be between offenses would be up to Google and might even vary depending on the site involved, it sounds like.
Well I 'could be wrong' but these words "for example" & "illustration" were not mentioned.

But thanks for clearing that up.
fathom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2005   #33
ThouShaltSeo
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 206
ThouShaltSeo is on a distinguished road
I wish it could, but an URL would make NO difference at all posting it here. It would if I had similar text, dupe pages or sites of my own but I don't. A few sites linked to me with a script that counts clicks and that's how it started. That URL (something like /goto.cgi?http://www.somepage.com) was indexed and my front page was as a cache. Identical.

Apparently I'm suffereing from a preset penalty becuase of this and I don't know when will it (if ever) end. This (linking) has happened at least 2X and both times I got lucky and managed to get them deleted but as time things described on the original message started to happen. With &filter=0, my front page ranks on top for a few pretty hard keywords, without it, in the 60's.

--cut and pasted from message #15 http://forums.searchenginewatch.com/...ead.php?t=2979 ----
Here's probably the most succinct thread on WebmasterWorld summarizing the various redirect issues. Message #8 has a good set of "Redirect Bug" links...

What about those redirects, copies and mirrors?
http://www.webmasterworld.com/forum3/23743.htm

With reference to meta refresh redirects, here's a link to my Aug 2003 thread, with a couple of my summarizing comments...

Banner ad redirect-page indexed as mirror site by Google
Google getting overly aggressive in its indexing?
http://www.webmasterworld.com/forum3/16069.htm


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Hawley
Yes, a URL could make all the difference.

Last edited by ThouShaltSeo : 01-14-2005 at 10:41 AM.
ThouShaltSeo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2005   #34
fathom
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada
Posts: 475
fathom is a jewel in the roughfathom is a jewel in the roughfathom is a jewel in the rough
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThouShaltSeo
Googleguy, if you're reading this please advise on what to do. Does the dupe penalty stay for a certain amount of time regardless, or, does it disappear when the "dupe" pages are removed? Can we ask to have it removed if it was for no fault of our own, but because of faulty redirect handling?
I think Danny just got an answer for you. [at least part of it]

Quote:
I mentioned concrete numbers, but as a "for example" illustration. It's not a 30-60-90 day thing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dannysullivan
So, for example, an first offense might might go two weeks, a second six weeks. Exactly what the timing would be between offenses would be up to Google and might even vary depending on the site involved, it sounds like.
Probably not what you wanted to hear.
fathom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2005   #35
ThouShaltSeo
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 206
ThouShaltSeo is on a distinguished road
I just wish Google would replace this then:
http://www.google.com/webmasters/facts.html
Fiction: A competitor can ruin a site's ranking somehow or have another site removed from Google's index.
Fact: There is almost nothing a competitor can do to harm your ranking or have your site removed from our index. Your rank and your inclusion are dependent on factors under your control as a webmaster, including content choices and site design.

to

Fiction: A competitor can ruin a site's ranking somehow or have another site removed from Google's index.

Fact: Be careful who links to you. If they link to you with a script that uses 302 or Meta Refresh Redirects your page will be penalized as a duplicate. If it is your front page with most incoming links your entire site will suffer. Also, once if you are lucky enough to have the links removed you will remain still penalized until the "sentence" is finished. The more times others linked to you this way, the longer the penalty. If the penalty is about to be removed and another competitor or innocent webmaster links at you this way, your page will get penalized again, with a longer penalty this time becuase you're a habitual offender. Eventually GoogleBot will stop visiting you all together. In conclusion: other than moving your SERPS to page 30, there's almost nothing a competitor can do your rankings.

I've lost all the energy. Every single day I pay someone to update my site (not counting my time at all) and there's nothing I can do anymore. One can't win playing cat and mouse with scrapper sites that link you. E-mailed Google a few days ago but I'm probably #245487975987 and will get a canned response.


Quote:
Originally Posted by fathom
I think Danny just got an answer for you. [at least part of it]
Probably not what you wanted to hear.

Last edited by ThouShaltSeo : 01-14-2005 at 11:14 AM.
ThouShaltSeo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2005   #36
Phoenix
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 97
Phoenix is just really nicePhoenix is just really nicePhoenix is just really nicePhoenix is just really nicePhoenix is just really nice
It is pretty unfortunate what happened to your site, but I think you are being a tad dramatic about it. I would give it some time and patience, I have helped people worse off than you who were penalized in Google recover their original positions. All it took was some time, Google is not the fastest gun in the west when it comes to cleaning this stuff up. They are too careful for that.
Phoenix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2005   #37
ThouShaltSeo
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 206
ThouShaltSeo is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phoenix
It is pretty unfortunate what happened to your site, but I think you are being a tad dramatic about it
maybe so, but it has been going on since August 10th or so...almost six months. The problem is compounded that I don't see what can I do and there's no "within a few weeks once everthing is crawled Google will sort things out". It has become a cycle (see message #23 http://forums.searchenginewatch.com/...3&postcount=23) and I'm helpless. I really don't get off on spending 14 hours a day on boards trying to see what to do, I wish I could just update and make the site better. That's all I got on my defense.

Last edited by ThouShaltSeo : 01-14-2005 at 01:17 PM.
ThouShaltSeo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2005   #38
fathom
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada
Posts: 475
fathom is a jewel in the roughfathom is a jewel in the roughfathom is a jewel in the rough
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThouShaltSeo
maybe so, but it has been going on since August 10th or so...almost six months. The problem is compounded that I don't see what can I do and there's no "within a few weeks once everthing is crawled Google will sort things out". It has become a cycle (see message #23 http://forums.searchenginewatch.com/...3&postcount=23) and I'm helpless. I really don't get off on spending 14 hours a day on boards trying to see what to do, I wish I could just update and make the site better. That's all I got on my defense.
Ya know - I think I am pretty helpful most of the time [and a little abrupt some of the time].

You seem to have a problem, you seem to have had it for quite some time, you seem to waffle around on the details like you don't really know what the details are.

You suggest that no-one needs to see anything because you're gifted in this area of problem-solving and you're so absolutely correct that you're helpless.

That sums up you're last month of posting on this topic.

PM a url or wait for Google - it's that simple.
fathom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2005   #39
ThouShaltSeo
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 206
ThouShaltSeo is on a distinguished road
Oh boy,
the reason I don't post my URL are two-fold:

1. it will encourage someone else to link to it just for fun or profit if we're on the same category.
2. it will distract from the main issue, which is the bug with 302 redirects and dupe penalties associated with it. I will get tips like "add an H1" or change the title and so on which have no bearing on the issue. All might be great suggestions, but those are the least of my problems right now.

And I have laid the details out in more than one post in this thread, zero waffling. I have been posting about this since I found out what happened what happened and I e-mailed Google several examples myself. My site has been effected, but the same thing has happened to many more. Many sites simply don't know of the issue yet and will hope that the rankings come back in the next crawl. After a crawl or two, they will start hitting the boards trying to find out.

No one is doubting your abilities or thinking that I'm better than you, and if you can help people with this issue feel free to do so:
http://forums.searchenginewatch.com/...ead.php?t=2979
http://www.webmasterworld.com/forum3/25638-1-10.htm
http://forums.searchenginewatch.com/...?threadid=3499
http://forums.searchenginewatch.com/...0&page=6&pp=20
http://www.google.com/search?sourcei...ogle+hijacking

By using copyscape, Google or Yahoo, right now there's NO dupes from other links (or my domain for that matter). My question was about the time it takes to come back and if anything else can be done. When I search for multiple unique sentences (one at a time) from the front page, I see only one URL, my index page at www+domain+com.


Quote:
Originally Posted by fathom
Ya know - I think I am pretty helpful most of the time [and a little abrupt some of the time].

You seem to have a problem, you seem to have had it for quite some time, you seem to waffle around on the details like you don't really know what the details are.

You suggest that no-one needs to see anything because you're gifted in this area of problem-solving and you're so absolutely correct that you're helpless.

That sums up you're last month of posting on this topic.

PM a url or wait for Google - it's that simple.

Last edited by ThouShaltSeo : 01-14-2005 at 02:16 PM.
ThouShaltSeo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2005   #40
fathom
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada
Posts: 475
fathom is a jewel in the roughfathom is a jewel in the roughfathom is a jewel in the rough
I would think a lesson from black hat science is better than being in limbo:

1. new domain

2. new host

3. load content - slight rewrite of copy

4. start links

5. disallow Google in robots.txt in old site but keep it for all other search engines.

Your no further ahead 'with google' in the short-term but in the long term you'll be far better off... and you don't need to sit for ???????? weeks/months etc. waiting for Google to fix the problem.

I wouldn't have waited past a week.

Last edited by fathom : 01-14-2005 at 02:45 PM.
fathom is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off