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Old 09-26-2004   #1
Mike Grehan
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Why Doesn't SEMPO Talk In Forums?

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elisabeth
We're trying to remain fairly neutral on the subject, as we try to be with most other topics, we just don't want to appear to be in favor of one side or the other, (and trust me, the moderating staff is very split on the issue, so personal feelings aside) if we allow the continued public bashing to go too far - it kills our credibility as a neutral party and the ability to provide a public forum were SEMPO board members would in fact, feel comfortable in participating in discussion to hear the real concern of the industry if they wanted to.
Then the fact still remains Elisabeth: if the SEMPO board considered soiling their clothes and came down here from their ivory towers to where the ordinary folks are talking about SEMPO issues (peg on their nose to avoid the stench of the ordinary folks of course) - then maybe they wouldn't be the laughing stock they've turned themselves into in the eyes of many in the community.

I notice that the greatest name in the industry (Danny Sullivan) has never shied away from a couple of rounds of healthy discourse and up-close-and-personal rapport with the members of the search marketing community here. I notice that helpful people like yourself and search engine optimisation legends like fantomaster don't mind hanging round here with the hoi polloi. In fact, the credibility of the many in this community, which includes members and moderators alike, makes this place a must to visit. But were are the SEMPO champions of our industry? I don't think one of them (PR guy excluded) has ever felt it necessary to "pop in and just cover off a few things".

It's a shame that a group of so-called professional communicators could actually be bathing in the humour down here and being part of the community at large, rather than sitting behind closed doors and figuring out how they're going to get rid of the nuisances, as they see them, in it.

Last edited by Mike Grehan : 09-27-2004 at 01:22 PM. Reason: seemingly ambiguous inference removed
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Old 09-26-2004   #2
Mikkel deMib Svendsen
 
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Quote:
I don't think one of them (PR guy excluded) has ever felt it necessary to "pop in and just cover off a few things".
I think this is very much due to the "coorporate structure" of SEMPO - based on business principles rather than non-profit/union/Trade-org principles. SEMPO is just doing what any other large coorporation most often do. However, in my mind the "ostrich strategy" dosen't work very well - not for coorporations and certainly not for a group like SEMPO.

I want strong and vocal leaders to represent me in this industry - not just some PR hungry demagogues that hide at any sign of truoubles. I want my leaders to stand up and defend what they belive. If they are not strong enough to take the heat I won't vote for them ... But I guess, SEMPO took care of that part leaving our democracy ...
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Old 09-26-2004   #3
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I've met miss Coll.

She didnt seem the least bit shy in coming forward then, of course we'd all had plenty to drink ;-) Maybe we could club togther and send some beers over?

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Old 09-26-2004   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikkel deMib Svendsen
I think this is very much due to the "coorporate structure" of SEMPO
Their certainly not like the corporations I have worked for. Its a flat out scam. Maybe unplanned to be so, but that is what it is.
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Old 09-26-2004   #5
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Its a flat out scam.
Besides the entertaining value I usually don't care much for conspiracy theories.

I think it is wrong to call SEMPO a scam. I believe most of the board members joined because they had some goals - and that was not to cheat the members joining. But, whatever their goals might have been they failed. Thats not a scam, thats just a shame. Bad judgement, bad management, ignorance, lack of understanding and communication etc - call it what you want, but it dosen't fit my definition of scam.
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Old 09-26-2004   #6
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Then what was the misrepresentation of their filing status by the PR Guy and their lawyer, Ian? It was their way out of having to produce their by-laws. I would really like to know why they did that at such a critical time?
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Old 09-26-2004   #7
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I am not really sure I even care to know anymore, Beth. No reason to beat up a dead horse. But, in any case, I still don't think it justify calling it scam. And, I don't think you have to - it is bad enough as it is.

I would be more carfull with my words. If you chose to call SEMPO - or the actions of SEMPO, scam, then you are essentially also calling people like Danny Sullivan and Brett Tabke scammers. I, for one, most certainly do not think they are so.
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Old 09-26-2004   #8
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Alright, I will stop at that. Just for the record, I do not consider all board members to be aware of the day to day operations. The last thing I say here, before I move back over to the pooh pooh party, is that when you stop caring is when they win.
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Old 09-26-2004   #9
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Quote:
when you stop caring is when they win
If the grand prize is "SEMPO" - in it's current state, then I'll let them win

Anyway, I never said I don't care about this industry, I never said I don't care about having a good trade organisation, I just don't care too much about SEMPO because I think they will never have a real impact - at least not here, where I am, in Scandinavia and Northern Europe. Only time will tell if I am right or not but it is certainly not something I will loose sleep over.
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Old 09-26-2004   #10
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I think I said I would stop. I understand your point Mikkel, so I hope you understand on that and I pre-apologize for any more blunders. But while I live in Tahoe, I am very, very closely connected to San Francisco, the Bay Area and California and as a result, I feel much closer to this. I just don't want my Dad or brother to say, hey why aren't you in that Sempo. Back to my, I guess it is a, pitty potty .
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Old 09-26-2004   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikkel deMib Svendsen
If you chose to call SEMPO - or the actions of SEMPO, scam, then you are essentially also calling people like Danny Sullivan and Brett Tabke scammers. I, for one, most certainly do not think they are so.
I do not think Danny or Brett per say are scammers...in the same way most of the people at Enron were not scammers...in the same way most muslims are not terrorists, etc.

I am not directly stating that I think others are scammers, but that it only takes a few bad (birds, chickens, dogs, people, or whatever) to make the actions of the whole lot look bad.

I do not necissarily think all blame should be spread across everyone
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Old 09-26-2004   #12
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I do not necissarily think all blame should be spread across everyone
I, quite sincerely, agree.

Last edited by bethabernathy : 09-26-2004 at 11:17 PM.
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Old 09-27-2004   #13
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<aside> Beth, would you mind shortening your tagline? It's caused the forum threads to spread off the side of my monitor, even at 90% display.
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Old 09-27-2004   #14
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Does that work? I removed about 1/2?
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Old 09-27-2004   #15
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Does that work? I removed about 1/2?
and I was just getting used to the horizontal scroll
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Old 09-27-2004   #16
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Yes, that's excellent, Beth. Thanks.
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Old 09-27-2004   #17
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>>scam

I dont think so.

Ya know what i reckon is going on? I think they started out with good intentions (albeit slightly marred by all to human self interest) and just ****ed it up.

Simple as that. Now they have a dillema: Arrrgh! Everyone hates us! What do we do? - Unfortunately they've either forgotten, or dont know the first basic rule of customer care: You can get away with murder, as long as you communicate with your clients. And that really is true. Providing you talk to your member base, address their concerns, and are seen to be proactive in correcting mistakes, people will forgive you anything.

If Ms Coll (or any of the board) had come right out and said, We're sorry, we made some mistakes, this is what we are going to do to correct it There wouldnt be any of this would there?

Fools.

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Old 09-27-2004   #18
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Dear Ms Coll,

The answer to the million dollar question continually rears its fat, ugly little head. Do you know what it is? Its called communication. The answer to this problem is very very simple. Barb, can I call you Barb? Well I'm going too anyway, like it or not. Barb, if you pack yourself a cut lunch, set your notebook up beside the fridge, or even pack an esky and place beside your computer, contact Danny Sullivan and set aside a good 8 - 12 hours to chat in one Forum, say...this one for arguments sake, it would solve many of the issues and the problem would be no more. Barb, you really need to consider this and get off your pretty little soap box, get your gums (fingers) flapping and just accept responsibility and set the world straight / get set straight.

Nothing wrong with allowing a few (hundred) individuals to vent their frustration upon you in a good SEMPO bash and hash session here at SEW; don't you think? Barb, you just really have to wonder if this is doing you any favours. <Too personal....edited out by Anthony> You, sitting down at a forum and answering all questions. Yes, its going to take you some time, but hell, what do you have to lose? SEMPO! That's pretty much well gone if you don't, and possibly may even be saved if you do. Barb, your inbetween two pieces of bread currently as the sh*t.....(aka "sh*t sandwich") so maybe your ideas or advisors ideas are / have just been all wrong. You need to stop hiding and get yourself in here now and get answering.

What's wrong Barb? Do you think your too good to be here? Chat in a forum environment? Danny Sullivan does, and hell, he is the leader of the damn industry. I drive expensive cars and live quite comfortably also Barb, but I don't have a soap box and think I am better than everyone else. Well, maybe that's just because its not bloody Australian to do that. Maybe that is the issue. Possibly you need to come down under and we take you out scrub for a few weeks, let you play with the roo's, koala's and snakes, get you back down to earth a bit! What do you think? Come on Barb, you'll love it, trust me, and while your getting back down to earth, you can explain to everyone why the hell SEMPO isn't doing anything.

Well Barb....I really do hope you like being called Barb....off the soap box old girl, grab your esky and lunch, sit down and organise a time to have an open forum here. Tell you what, I reckon it would be like taking a slashdotting upon the server.... just hacking Barb...don't get all serious on me now. So Barb, look forward to hopefully catching up with you in some sort of moderated chat, in the near future to answer some questions. Hell, I don't even want to chat with you...just watch what Mike, Beth and others have got for you to answer. I'm sure you will have the answers we've all been waiting for...wink wink.

Yours every so sincerely,

Anthony Parsons.

Last edited by Anthony Parsons : 09-27-2004 at 12:12 PM.
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Old 09-27-2004   #19
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While SEMPO as an organisation certainly does not appear to have done itself any favours, the general tone of criticism seems to be getting particularly nasty.

This is all becoming one ugly game, on both sides of the pitch. Not something I care to watch. Someone tell me when it's over so I can look.
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Old 09-27-2004   #20
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Hey Brian,

I'll repeat somthing i said in response to Elizabeth (poor girl, she's getting more stick than Barbera Coll - we like you really mate )

If SEMPO stopped treating the SEO COMMUNITY with *contempt* - The SEO community might not feel obliged to repay the favour - Well, that's not exactly what i said but it's close enough....

It really is rather insulting.

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