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Old 08-28-2008   #1
abbottsys
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AdWords - First Page Issues

The upcoming AdWords QS changes mean that all ads will go into the auction for a bid of just $0.01 - no more minBids and "inactive keywords".

Google serves zillions of SRPs per day, but there's one class that's especially interesting. These are the "empty or partially filled SRPs", meaning they currently show no ads, or less that their full compliment of ads.

When the new changes go into effect you'll be able to show on these SRPs for $0.01 - at least untill the rush shows up and drives up pricing.

So load your wagon with your penny bids and head out. The First Page Gold Rush is on

Last edited by abbottsys : 08-28-2008 at 12:52 PM.
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Old 08-28-2008   #2
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Re: AdWords - First Page Goldrush

I don't remember seeing this in the notice, they said they are replacing MinBid with First Page bid not getting rid of it? Could you post the source. Thanks.

PS: First Page Gold Rush - is a Great Title!

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Old 08-28-2008   #3
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Re: AdWords - First Page Goldrush

Quote:
Originally Posted by searchengineman View Post
I don't remember seeing this in the notice, they said they are replacing MinBid with First Page bid not getting rid of it? Could you post the source....
Here you go..
http://adwords.blogspot.com/2008/08/...rovements.html
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Old 08-28-2008   #4
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Re: AdWords - First Page Goldrush

Quote:
Originally Posted by abbottsys View Post
The upcoming AdWords QS changes mean that all ads will go into the auction for a bid of just $0.01 - no more minBids and "inactive keywords".

Google serves zillions of SRPs per day, but there's one class that's especially interesting. These are the "empty or partially filled SRPs", meaning they currently show no ads, or less that their full compliment of ads.

When the new changes go into effect you'll be able to show on these SRPs for $0.01 - at least untill the rush shows up and drives up pricing.

So load your wagon with your penny bids and head out. The First Page Gold Rush is on
Abbottsys, this is not actually correct.

I'll be back later in the day after I've had a chance to check my more detailed response with the right folks to make sure I've explained things correctly.

One point I'll make now is that keywords for which their are no (or very few) advertisers tend to be that way because they also tend to earn very low quality scores and are thus difficult to advertise affordably.

AWR
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Old 08-28-2008   #5
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Re: AdWords - First Page Goldrush

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Originally Posted by AdWordsRep View Post
Abbottsys, this is not actually correct. I'll be back later in the day after I've had a chance to check my more detailed response with the right folks to make sure I've explained things correctly. ......
Whoops! This is the way I understood it from reading (and re-reading) the Inside AdWords Blog.

Are you saying that all ads do in fact go live at a $0.01 bid, but that the FirstPageBid will still act as a separate minimum to keep (active) ads off the first page - even when the first page is empty of ads, or only partially filled with ads?

Anyway, this is interesting stuff for sure, and I look forward to the official explanation after you've checked with the right folks at Google.

BTW: Please let them know I've promised everyone penny ads now, so it would be kinda nice if Google decided to deliver. Remember the #1 auction rule, the lower you begin the more folks you pull in, and the higher final bid prices tend to go. Tell the AdWords team they need to just trust me on this

Last edited by abbottsys : 08-28-2008 at 02:49 PM.
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Old 08-28-2008   #6
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Re: AdWords - First Page Goldrush

Quote:
BTW: Please let them know I've promised everyone penny ads now, so it would be kinda nice if Google decided to deliver. Remember the #1 auction rule, the lower you begin the more folks you pull in, and the higher final bid prices tend to go. Tell the AdWords team they need to just trust me on this.
Heheh. Oh, I'll let them know...but there is still that 'delivering high quality ads to users' part to consider. It really isn't all about money.

Anyway, I got back a speedier-than-expected reply from my colleague, since it turns out she wanted to respond to a similar assertion made elsewhere. I actually like her explanation way better than the draft I wrote, so I'll save myself a bunch of time and simply quote her:

Quote:
Some reports have stated that all inactive keywords will be eligible to run and that advertisers will see increases in traffic and spend on those keywords. While it's possible that some keywords may start accruing impressions once the changes go into effect, a keyword and its corresponding ad, landing page, etc. must still merit a high enough Quality Score and have a competitive CPC bid to be eligible for placement. We will evaluate Quality Score on a per-query basis, but our quality measures remain, such that even if a keyword is technically considered active, the system still will not deliver poor quality ads to our users. The key change is that the decision to show an ad will be made at the time of the query, rather than by assessing the keyword's active/inactive status once per day.
I hope that helps to clear things up - and I'll also do my best to post with further clarifications to similar questions before this change goes live to all advertisers.

To set reasonable expectations, I find that I have less and less time to post here (and elsewhere too), as much as I might wish it were otherwise. I know this is important stuff, though, and will endeavor to be a good source of information for you all.

AWR

Last edited by AdWordsRep : 08-28-2008 at 02:55 PM. Reason: Fix. Inevitable. Typo. :(
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Old 08-28-2008   #7
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Re: AdWords - First Page Goldrush

Thanks AWR. I think that helps.

So, in a nutshell...

For the case of an SRP with no ads, when I run an ad and bid $0.01 all my keywords will show as active, but my ad will not be delivered (anywhere) unless I reach the FirstPageBid?
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Old 08-28-2008   #8
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Re: AdWords - First Page Goldrush

Quote:
For the case of an SRP with no ads, when I run an ad and bid $0.01 all my keywords will show as active, but my ad will not be delivered (anywhere) unless I reach the FirstPageBid?
I apologize for the delay in responding, abbottsys - I am trying to balance drafting a completely accurate reply to you (and a great many other forum readers) with the need to complete this week's Advertiser Feedback Report - that also goes out to a great many readers, this evening. And I'm currently several hours behind on that.

I have not forgotten this thread. I'll be back to it as soon as I am able.

Best,

AWR
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Old 08-29-2008   #9
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Re: AdWords - First Page Goldrush

Quote:
For the case of an SRP with no ads, when I run an ad and bid $0.01 all my keywords will show as active, but my ad will not be delivered (anywhere) unless I reach the FirstPageBid?
My apology for the delay in responding, abbottsys and all. As many will know there is a three day weekend coming up here in the U.S., and I am actually hoping to extend that to four days in order to spend some extra time with family. As a result, there has been more for me to do than usual in the past few days.

All that said, the short answer to the question quoted above is that an ad can show on the first page even if the cost-per-click bid is below the first page bid estimate. (I would underline, by the way, that it is a first page bid estimate.)

A much longer answer follows.

The first page bid estimate is derived from all Google search queries that exactly match your keyword. Because the estimate is based on the aggregate search query information, there may be individual queries where the specific first page bid estimate is not representative of the cost-per-click bid needed for the ad to reach the first page. In these cases, ads may show even though the bid is lower than the estimate.

Advertisers may need to bid more than the estimate to appear at or near the top of the first page. Or, if advertisers do not meet the first page bid, their ad may appear on second or subsequent page of search results (though this does not pertain to your question regarding searches for which there are just a very few ads.)

Regardless, the first page bid estimate is designed to give advertisers more clarity into where their ads are appearing. Once this is live for all, I'd advise folks to look through their accounts to see if they're happy with where their ads are showing and make adjustments accordingly.

Really, the primary change introduced with these Quality Score improvements is that we've replaced static per-keyword Quality Scores with a system that evaluates an ad's quality each time it matches a search query. As a result, AdWords is using the most accurate, specific, and up-to-date performance information when determining whether an ad should be displayed.

As detailed in the frequently asked questions, a bid requirement is determined for your keyword each time it's about to enter an ad auction. Here's that article:

Is there a bid requirement to enter the ad auction?
http://adwords.google.com/support/bi...97&topic=15369

At the bottom line: it is still key to remember that ad placement will still be dependent on Quality Score, your cost-per-click bid, your budget and account settings, and user and advertiser behavior.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

All current FAQs related to this change may be found at the link below - though it is worth recalling that things may evolve between now and the time this goes live for all, based on feedback we've received since the very limited initial launch began.

http://adwords.google.com/support/bi...15369&hl=en_US

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I really hope that helps to clear things up - especially as I will be rather scarce until Wednesday.

I wish a very happy long weekend to those of you celebrating Labor Day!

AWR
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Old 08-30-2008   #10
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Re: AdWords - First Page Goldrush

Thanks AWR. This clarifies things... to a point. I guess we'll just have to wait until the new QS is live and see how things actually work in practice.

Of course, I've always objected to the use of the word "quality" in the AdWords QS, because the primary component of QS is Y=Bid*CTR where Y is Google's financial yield from an ad.

Put another way, I could take on of my best performing ads, one which both I and Google agree has superb quality, and suddenly change the bid to $0.01. The ad quality would not change in any way as viewed by users, but Google's QS would suddenly plummet.

So, what is QS really measuring? It's measuring Google's financial yield from the ad. I'm not complaining, I would do exactly the same thing, but calling it "Quality" score is a bit of a stretch
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Old 09-02-2008   #11
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Re: AdWords - First Page Goldrush

Quote:
[...] Of course, I've always objected to the use of the word "quality" in the AdWords QS, because the primary component of QS is Y=Bid*CTR where Y is Google's financial yield from an ad.

Put another way, I could take on of my best performing ads, one which both I and Google agree has superb quality, and suddenly change the bid to $0.01. The ad quality would not change in any way as viewed by users, but Google's QS would suddenly plummet.

So, what is QS really measuring? It's measuring Google's financial yield from the ad. I'm not complaining, I would do exactly the same thing, but calling it "Quality" score is a bit of a stretch.
This is not actually correct. Please see further discussion in the related thread, here:

AdWords Quality Score - What's in a Name?
http://forums.searchenginewatch.com/...ad.php?t=23686

AWR
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Old 09-02-2008   #12
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Re: AdWords - First Page Goldrush

Ok,

Let me see if anyone can tell me (AdWordsRep) which scenario to expect, in the world of the First Page Goldrush, with no competitors:

A) A Lone Ad all by itself, with no competition, with lousy quality score
will still pay only 0.01 cent a bid (The Abbottsys Theory?) being alone on the page.


B) A Lone Ad all by itself, with no competition, with lousy quality score
will still have to pay the old minimum bid price, which will no longer be visible in the Ad Words panel. Say $6.00 in order to appear on the first page.

C) A Lone Ad all by itself, with no competition, with lousy quality score will show a Min First Page bid of $6.00 until competition appears?



Perhaps I'm asking for too much. I don't want AdswordRep to be relocated to Area-51, The place they send bad Google employees.

Searchengineman.

Last edited by searchengineman : 09-02-2008 at 06:11 PM.
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Old 09-04-2008   #13
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Re: AdWords - First Page Goldrush

Quote:
Let me see if anyone can tell me (AdWordsRep) which scenario to expect, in the world of the First Page Goldrush, with no competitors [...]
searchengineman, I'm not sure if you saw the original blog post about these changes, dated 8/21, but towards the end it said:

Quote:
[...] Finally, please note that we'll release these Quality Score changes to a very small segment of advertisers within the next day or two, so that we can gather feedback before launching to all our advertisers. [...]
I bring this up because things are currently evolving a bit, based on that feedback and what we have learned from the very limited initial launch.

As a consequence, I am going to gently sidestep your question and say that the answer is, for certain, not 'A'. How it will appear exactly, however, I am not really sure at this point.

What I can say with real assurance, though, is this key point: the intent behind all Quality Score initiatives - including this one - is to show high quality ads. The short story is (and will remain) that an ad with a "lousy quality score" is not going to be able advertise inexpensively, even if there are zero competitors. And this 'pricey' advertising is meant to be a financial (and thus, hopefully, compelling) incentive to improve the quality of keywords/ad/landing page - not to allow us to 'make more money'.

Hope that makes sense.

By the way, I wish we could dispense with the 'First Page Goldrush' language/idea. That is so not going to happen, in my opinion.

Quote:
[...] Perhaps I'm asking for too much. I don't want AdswordRep to be relocated to Area-51, The place they send bad Google employees.
Hey! Where did that nearly silent Black Helicopter outside my window come from all of a sudden?

Gotta go.

Back later. Maybe.

AWR
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Old 09-04-2008   #14
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Re: AdWords - First Page issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdWordsRep View Post
.....By the way, I wish we could dispense with the 'First Page Goldrush' language/idea. That is so not going to happen, in my opinion. ....AWR
I've changed the Thread Title.
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