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Old 09-01-2004   #41
Incubator
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seomike
For example everytime Google changes their bot's ip they have it updated within hours!



Not only that but all the other spiders that make it into their list which is now a text file that is over 540 kilobytes.
As far as spider IP goes............... agreed, ever 4 hours they update , if changes happen

problem being they have to move away from flat file and find another deliver either MySql or a trigger friendly .db

cheers

WC
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Old 09-01-2004   #42
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agreed. maybe if we get them on here we can badger them into giving an sql dump every 4 hours instead .
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Old 09-02-2004   #43
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Hi everyone, known and as yet unknown - and thanks, Danny, for the invitation and gentle nudging! Glad to be on board, albeit somewhat pressed for time (so what's new, eh ...)

So, to get straight to the point: indeed we have an SQL version of the fantomas spiderSpy(TM) botBase in the making, hoping to launch it sometime in Fall.

However, for the time being what we conceive to be the better solution is to simply allow it to generate your own, fully customized spider lists for further processing.

Still, it might indeed be viable to allow for download of the whole SQL database in one fell swoop as well if you feel that would be of any use.

Because it's not as if the current size of the db poses such a big performance problem in flat file format on any professional systems we're aware of. We do a lot of stuff with SQL and at the end of the day, there's lots of scenarios where flat solutions will simply perform better if only on the stability and reliability score. Having to reconstruct a corrupted db (and they always seem to go corrupt sometime sooner or later) sure is no fun!

As for UAs, we feature the spiders' in the db, of course, but for industrial-strength cloaking they're of little use IMO - far too risky to rely on that sort of easily manipulated data.

Actually, my kudos go to my partner Dirk who actual bears the brunt of the work of constantly monitoring more than 8K sites' traffic to catch the spiders as they come - this process isn't easily automated reliably, so it's really quite a chore.
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Old 09-02-2004   #44
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>industrial-strength

Love that, I'm a non-cloaker but that is great branding.

I would be interested in your view of this
http://www.google.com/search?q=+site...UTF-8&filter=0

BTW
Don't forget to look at http://forums.searchenginewatch.com/...ead.php?t=1430
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Old 09-02-2004   #45
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doing the crap I was doing in 96!

My goodness, that is strait up spam from MS, I thought such a fine company would be above such ugly blackhat tactics! Shocking!
BTW, you can still see the original if you use a non-Mozilla/MSIE browser.

From the de-cloacked page of
www.microsoft.com/asia/solutionMarketPlace/ portal/broadcast-automation-india.htm ...

first there is an image which reads:
Welcome to our company. This page has been designed to help our visitors finding directly the information, product or service they are searching in our website.




The entry page to Microsoft's Web site. Find software, solutions and answers. Support, and Microsoft news.

Broadcast automation india



Microsoft


Solution Information The Vadmin 3.0 CMS Enterprise Edition is a web-based application that allows clients to modify, create and delete website content or images on the fly (from any computer which has an Internet connection). Vadmin 3.0 CMS Enterprise Edition broadcast automation india supports sections and sub-sections within sections. This feature enables higher levels of security due to an enhanced administration section for user roles and content access. It also seamlessly integrates with the Vadmin Registration and Security system, broadcast automation india and the Vadmin 3.0 User Management System. The Vadmin 3.0 Content Management System Enterprise Edition has a simple to use administration interface with a tree view that resembles the website navigation structure. The aim of the Vadmin 3.0 Content Management broadcast automation india System (CMS) Enterprise Edition is to give website administrators the ability to manage website content within a large enterprise level website, without the need to employ the services of a web design company. Business Issue Websites can have multiple broadcast automation india design templates associated to them. Vadmin 3.0 optimises websites for more search engines as some search engines have difficulty indexing website pages that end in query strings i.e. http://www.mysite.com/content.asp?pageid=357 Websites can have multiple broadcast automation india navigation bars that users can associate and remove pages from. Navigation bars can be textual or image based. Website administrators can create and edit. A simple hyper linking tool allows website. Value to Customer The Vadmin 3.0 CMS Enterprise Edition

broadcast automation india

is also designed to provide control over the quality of website content multiple website updaters. This is both in terms of content accuracy and content formatting with. Content quality is also assured through the use of predefined formatting broadcast automation india technology and document approval. The predefined formatting technology is employed to define the style of the text used within the website content. The use of consistent formatting in website content improves website aesthetics, and enhances website functionality broadcast automation india and the corporate brand due to a high level of consistency. Document approval is an optional feature that requires that content is approved by a content editor with approval rights before it is displayed on the website. This reduces the occurrence of errors broadcast automation india and helps enforce a high standard of content. Content is divided into blocks and can support expiry options. Users can be notified when content blocks have expired and need to be updated. Administering a website using the Vadmin CMS requires limited computer broadcast automation india knowledge. Company Information Established in 1998 Enlighten, has five years of experience under its belt in an ever-evolving industry. An IT Solutions Provider, our services include; consultation, software development, database development, SMS text services, broadcast automation india graphic design and corporate identity development, intranet development and windows based applications. Other services include; Windows NT Hosting ( www.enlightenhosting.com ) and Domain Registration ( www.enlightendomains.com ). Enlighten is an .NZ Authorised broadcast automation india Registrar and rebuilt the Shared Registry System Interface in the .Net platform. Enlighten also work closely with Telecom and Vodafone as a SMS (Short Message Service) provider, with our own XML gateways. Being a technology driven business, our primary broadcast automation india tools of development include; Web – HTML/DHTML/XML/ JavaScript/C#/Flash/VB Script/ASP and .NET Software development – Crystal Reports/C#/C++/XML/VB Script and .NET Databases – SQL 7 + Solution Information NETS Identity Management Web Edition provides perfectly broadcast automation india the authentication infrastructure to the eBusiness players (B2C). We have practical references supporting to over 2 thousand users with the proven solution to Korea Market for 4 years. For function, it is composed of Multi-site, Multi-Domain, Multi-Server broadcast automation india Single Sign-On, Automated Provisioning, Single Point Management and so on that meets with the needs of the eBusiness players NETS Identity Management Web Edition is the solution of the Authentication and Access control applicable to the Enterprise Environment. broadcast automation india It provides the suitable Total Identity & Access Management function to the Enterprise Environment through SiteMinder of Netegrity Inc, leading provider of IM. It helps enterprise manage to many structures of organization within enterprise, enhance more broadcast automation india strong security, control the access between Identity and Information. Business Issue NETS IM Web Edition NETS IM Enterprise Edition Value to Customer Reduced complexity through consolidation of identity information from across the enterprise, such as preferences, policies, and processes Reduced costs through enhanced provisioning automation, delegation, and self-service from within and outside the firewall Ensuring higher and more consistent levels of security and privacy for customers and all stakeholders interacting with enterprise systems and data Company Information NETS Company Limited(NETS) is a key enabler for wired and wireless web-based identity management(IM) infrastructure in Korea.

broadcast software china
MICROSOFT ASIA

HEHEHEhehe

Last edited by littleman : 09-02-2004 at 05:49 PM.
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Old 09-02-2004   #46
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Sorry to break the fun, but this is not really cloaking - you can see the pages with a normal IE browser from any IP. They are just using a fast client side redirect
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Old 09-02-2004   #47
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You are right, but, it is still fun, becasue it is still very blackhat.

Check out the spammy HEAD section:
<!--TOOLBAR_START--><!--TOOLBAR_EXEMPT--><!--TOOLBAR_END--><html><SCRIPT language="JavaScript" SRC="javascript/balise.js"></SCRIPT><SCRIPT language="JavaScript">balise("http://www.microsoft.com/asia/solutionmarketplace/solution.asp?ind=13&sid=130201&type=1&sLanguage=6" , "7", "78");</SCRIPT><HEAD><META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><title>Microsoft - Broadcast automation india</title><META HTTP-EQUIV="pragma" CONTENT="no-cache"><META HTTP-EQUIV="cache-control" content="no-cache"><META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8"><META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Language" content=""><META name="DESCRIPTION" content="The entry page to Microsoft's Web site. Find software, solutions and answers. Support, and Microsoft news."><META name="KEYWORDS" content="Microsoft, asia, china, india, australia broadcast automation india"><META name="CLASSIFICATION" content="broadcast automation india"><META name="ROBOTS" content="INDEX|FOLLOW"><META name="ROBOTS" content="NOARCHIVE"><STYLE type="text/css">

.pscss {position:absolute; top:600px; left:0px; width:0px; height:0px; z-index:2;}

H1{display: inline; font-size:12px}

H2{display: inline; font-size:12px}

</STYLE></HEAD>
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Old 09-02-2004   #48
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If you really must put a hat on the solution I think this one is more appropriate

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Old 09-02-2004   #49
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>If you really must put a hat on the solution

hehe, clown hat seems about right.

>Sorry to break the fun, but this is not really cloaking

I'm not sure I agree, they are certainly showing VERY different content to a search engine than they expect to show to the huge majority of users.

I'm not a great fan of cloaking, to be truthful I think its kind of lame, but when done well it is exceptional. My well is having the content broadly the same between users, imho MS haven't done that and I don't think that serves the users well.

You think they will get banned?
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Old 09-02-2004   #50
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This brings up a point that is rarely discussed.

The point being:
You can use what ever agressive technique you want if your site would be sorely missed and would bring bad credability to a SE.

What would Google MSN or Yahoo! be like if the banned ebay or amazon for cloaking? Users would search somewhere else.

Theres a point where you get sooooo big that you actually take the SE's by the cohones. Mainly if you aren't found in their index then searchers just go somewhere else and they get the "crapy search engine reputation".
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Old 09-02-2004   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikkel deMib Svendsen
Sorry to break the fun, but this is not really cloaking - you can see the pages with a normal IE browser from any IP. They are just using a fast client side redirect
Even so, it's still cloaking. Why do you think its not?

Last edited by hiero : 09-02-2004 at 06:15 PM.
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Old 09-02-2004   #52
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I wonder if MS uses Frontpage to edit their website
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Old 09-02-2004   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hiero
Even so, it's still cloaking. Why do you think its not?
hiero
I am afraid IHY has done his damage. Client side redirection can act very much like server side cloaking but they are technically very different.
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Old 09-02-2004   #54
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I guess what throws me off is they are using a particular phrase to key in on in each of those links that you mentioned before. That's why is would seem like cloaking.
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Old 09-02-2004   #55
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Probably seeing how well Google picks up on Java cloaks. IMHO google sucks at it

If you could corrupt a future competitors results with jibberish they can't control ummmm. you win ha!
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Old 09-02-2004   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NFFC
>industrial-strength
Love that, I'm a non-cloaker
You'll see the light some day, don't worry - pace another Google Dance or two.

Quote:
but that is great branding.
Thanks - getting along quite nicely. And yes, people really seem to love it.

Quote:
I would be interested in your view of this
http://www.google.com/search?q=+site...UTF-8&filter=0
Funny.
But, ehm. it's not exactly the most competitive of keyword combinations, would you say?

Quote:
BTW
Don't forget to look at http://forums.searchenginewatch.com/...ead.php?t=1430
O boy - sure would love to come (might have to don a false beard to get an invitation, eh?) but not at all sure I can make it.
But thanks for pointing it out.
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Old 09-02-2004   #57
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Originally Posted by seomike
I wonder if MS uses Frontpage to edit their website
No, but I'm sure they use VisualStudio.NET
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Old 09-02-2004   #58
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what cloaking is, what it was...

Okay, the meaning of cloaking has gotten all garbled up and is taking on something new. I blame it on misinformation and the fact that SEM has brought in a wave of people who fancy themselves as SEOs but are just bidding on key words.

What cloaking use to mean:
As a request is given to a webserver it comes with information, this includes IP, User Agent (most of the time), Referer (some of the time) and a host of more obscure details that those 'in the know' would rather you not think about.

On the host computer (the webserver) there sits a script, program, .htaccess command, or modified/custom webserver which monitors this header information and besides what content to deliver. This can be used for SEO purposes, but also for a host of other reasons.

What it means to a lot of you today:
Showing the search engines and the end user two separate pages, by either server side or client side manipulation.

------------------------
If you have no idea how server side stuff works just keep this in mind:
True cloaking is just like asking "who is knocking on my door" and the greeting response vary depending on who you see through the peep-hole before the door is open.
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Old 09-02-2004   #59
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>You'll see the light some day

I don't know, I've tried but spending days on designing a logo that only the spiders will see makes me think its not for me

>Funny.
>But, ehm. it's not exactly the most competitive of keyword combinations, would you say?

Its funny for sure but I bet some webmaster is getting beaten out on his keywords by that. Normally the advice would be to try harder but in this case you have to beat MS, that won't be easy if they leverage their PR/Linkage/Trust. I think that as in the case of Yahoo's continuing SEO efforts they are breaking the golden rule.

>might have to don a false beard to get an invitation, eh?

You have an invitation, come and donate some software for the raffle, for charity.
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Old 09-02-2004   #60
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Quote:
What it means to a lot of you today:
Showing the search engines and the end user two separate pages, by either server side or client side manipulation.
Funny we've been using Ralph's services for over 3 years and the only thing that has changed is that his spiderspy.txt file has gotten bigger, and it's still works the same way if you are a spider you go here if you aren't you go there.

I think what you call cloaking is really content specific delivery based on user preferences which is still cloaking just more widely used.

Last edited by seomike : 09-02-2004 at 07:01 PM.
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