Need Help Understanding

[SEO1]

Hi there

I am running a large campaign and need some thoughts of others

here is my problem .....If the campaigns are checked for Google Optimization of the ads,,,,then when Google says that the CPC is not being met, would writing ads be of little use since Google picks the Ad it feels is best to display?

Here is my scenario

Keyword terms in Adgroup

java projects with source code
c++ projects with source code
projects with source code
vb projects with source code
asp projects with source code

Ads written for above terms:

Projects With Source Code
coder projects with source code
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Projects With Source Code
Choose an expert to work on your
Software Projects. Free Signup!


When the above keywords are used to search on Google there is an Ad from another Adgroup that is displayed.

This is the Ad Google displays

Freelance Programming
Make your Next Project a Success.
1000s of Experts to Choose From.

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So if this is what Google decides is the best ad to be displayed when a search for the keywords above is done, in my eyes there is no sense in writing ads for relevancy as they won't matter, and I am then just forced to pay the minimum cpc Google demands or not be in the game at all...

Would you agree or disagree with my thoughts??

Which way do you run campaigns with or without Google Optimization??

Thank you

Clint

[Duncan Pollock]

What, if I may ask, does "Projects With Source Code" mean? Even more, why would/should it encourage a click to find out.
In contrast, "Freelance Programming" suggests a benefit and the following two lines confirm the likelihood of it.
Getting an AdWord right is far from a simple matter. You aren't the only one to find it frustrating. Moreover, there's a great deal of experimenting needed before you hit on the words that work.
However, from all I've learned (through both my own experience and the detailed advice put forth by gurus such as Perry Marshall), the lead line has to say, in effect, "here's an answer to your problem" or "here's what you're looking for" or "here's the help you could use" or some such phrase that implies the availability of a benefit -- which, ahem, "Projects With Source Code" doesn't do, does it? Perhaps something like "Getting Source Code Right" -- "Here's the help you need." -- "Sign up for free trial" would be more to the point.

Duncan :)

[SEO1]

Duncan

I have no idea what projects with source code means or how it should make one want to click. However I use what I am given and try to make it work to make the client happy.

This is not one of my beasts as I would never follow Perry Marshalls advice about building adwords campaigns. I find 5000 unrelevant keyword terms to be of little help, in fact all it does is make campaigns go inactive quickly.

However my question is why write ads for the keywords if Google is just going to take the optimized ad.

This also goes against what it states when a keyword is inactive...supposedly by writing an ad with the keyword in the title and description you raise the relevancy and won't need to pay the min CPC but from what I am seeing that is all BS....

Seems to me its a forced pay to play game now and that stinks !!!

Clint

[Duncan Pollock]

Aha, Clint, but what does optimization mean?
It's more than one thing and, although Google talks of focusing on keywords, they also mention several other factors. Most of all, the need is to realize/recognize what you're offering potential visitors/purchasers. Sure they'll use various keyword phrases to reach the page(s) that show your AdWords ad(s), but this simply means that the keywords you choose in your campaign(s) should be ones that will bring you the right kind of (targeted) visitors/searches.
What it doesn't (necessarily) mean. however, is that you should use the keywords in your ads. Rather, your focus needs to be on catching the visitor's attention so that they'll say "Ah, that's what I'm looking for" and will then click to reach your site -- and it's the site itself that should be absolutely relevant.
As just one for instance, my own site will (I hope) turn up when people search for "real estate, such and such a place" (without the quotes), but my Adword isn't optimized for this phrase. Instead it says "House Hunting Made Easy" -- "Here's how to find the house you want in such and such a place."
True, maybe there is optimization regarding the "such and such a place" but I don't think this is what triggers a click. Rather I think it's the "how to find" and this is hardly one of the keyword phrases that's central to my site. It isn't in my title tag, nor my description tag, and not even among my several meta keywords.
As for your rejection of Perry Marshall's ideas, I have to agree that he talks of coming up with 1000s of keywords. However, if you read between his lines, the emphasis is more on brainstorming your way through to the relative handful that will produce the results you want. In any case, getting AdWords to work is, as I've said, much easier said than done. You gotta work at, and this, most of all, means understanding just what the hell Google et al mean when they say something. Rarely is it immediately clear and obvious. Here, too, a heavy dose of brainstorming is called for!

Duncan :D

[AussieWebmaster]

You can drop the "with"... it is a useless and prohibiting (if not dropped by the search engine) word unless you are adding all these as exact match, in which case the potential clicks per month would be hard pressed to reach 50 from all of those terms.

What people have been offering in advise is that at times you have to be far more creative with the words you choose and the ads you write.

They ads have to make sense... not be some sort of clever shorthand... you need something that has the terms true.... but sometimes you can get around it by capturing what they want when they are searching with this geek-speak...

As you stated optimized Google is serving the ad that gets the most clicks... it should be what you want.... now if they are not the visitors then you need to test landing pages as well as other ads...

You can also unoptimize and force an equal amount of traffic to each ad... this way you can see if what you think will work is any better... if not continue with new ads until it improves...

Also try other words.... use the Google suggestion tool, and the Yahoo tool as well as WordTracker etc.

[SEO1]

Thank you for your reply.

I think you've answered my question sufficently.

Google is basically holding my client hostage.

By forcing the Ad they want and then saying you need to pay more to bid on these keywords.

I liked the way things were...

Im sure everyone enjoys a good screwing ....but jesus cant google use some lube???

[andrewgoodman]

I think it would help to clarify what you're saying.

If when you refer to the "optimized" ad, you're still referring to an ad that you or the client wrote, no? Or was it one suggested by Google staff?

Either way, it seems you are saying that Google's ad rotation optimizer is showing one of the ads, and not the others.

Absolutely. That's why I've always advocated close attention to the opt-outs at the campaign settings level. For your own reasons you may wish to run a split-test, over which YOU have control. That's simple. Just uncheck "Automatically Optimize My Ads" in the campaign settings.

And, of course, you can delete ads that don't perform, or that you do not like, and create whatever ads you want. I'm fuzzy on what the problem is.

As for the "pay to play" topic, that sounds like it's a separate issue, and that's being debated on at least one other thread.

It sounds like several things are needed here: better ads, more control over which ads are shown, and better keyword selection and understanding of search behavior. All are possible here. Keep at it!

[andrewgoodman]

As for your rejection of Perry Marshall's ideas, I have to agree that he talks of coming up with 1000s of keywords. However, if you read between his lines, the emphasis is more on brainstorming your way through to the relative handful that will produce the results you want.

Duncan :D

I wonder where he got that idea? ;)

In any case, I think we can agree that it's possible to overprioritize any aspect of this task -- including keyword discovery. With the matching options (I like certain techniques of using broad matching, for example), it is indeed possible to cast a pretty wide net without overdoing the keyword buildout. Manic keyword mining works for some, but unless you have technology to help you mine and analyze the very, very long tail of search (500,000+ phrases that might get one query every two years), you do reach a point of diminishing returns when it comes to brute force keyword research.

[SEO1]

Hi Andrew

I believe the client wrote the ad, However Google is running it over the ads I wrote since taking over, so yes I will need to uncheck the run optimized ads.

Thank you

Clint