Will MSN Search finally Humble Bill Gates

[! !]

"We will catch them"

was a recent quote from Gates on the subject of the new MSN search competing with Google...


What voids do you see in Google that they themselves can NOT fill - that MSN would be able to fill...


What will happen to Yahoo? Can there really remain three popular major players with distinct algorithms.

Will the "search savy" public just go back and forth between them depending on their needs at that moment?


What will MSN's algorithmic priorities be...

-- Link Popularity?

-- Titles?

-- Keyword Density? :confused:

it will be interesting to see what creative relevancey/algorithmic solution sthey will come up with - if any?
:p

[Mel]

I would not expect the New MSN search engine to be anything but world class.

It has plenty of talented programmers who we can assume have the necessary funds to work with and they have been working at it for a longer time than Yahoo did, albeit Yahoo had a whole Phlanx of talent from Altavista, Alltheweb, Lycos and several already operational search engines as a basis for their new toy.

I would look for a near carbon copy of Google, but with more personalization and geolocation features.

MSN will be starting with a decent search share, and perhaps more importantly, the ability to set the default search on the worlds most popular brwoser pointing their way.

[bwelford]

I'm sure it will be launched with the typical Microsoft product-driven mentality.
OK guys and gals, here's what you've all been waiting for. MSN Search. Form an orderly lineup to get your copy.
Humility .. I don't think that's in the MS lexicon. Now Pride, there's a different story. ... and for the more literate, they even have the word Hubris in there.

[St0n3y]

I'm looking forward to the new MSN. I do think there is room for three big guns, even four or five, if all producing relevant results but different. I don't think there is only one formula for relevancy so that is easily achievable. I think if Yahoo (or even Google) fails it will be their own doing, and not the doing of Bill Gates.

[dlux]

I wish I woulda' read this thread first before posting in the other one! :o

I agree with all of you about it being being high class and considered powerful with a lot of hoopla surrounding it unveiling. I just wonder if they will actually catch google.

So does anybody think they'll place more relevance on paid listings versus natural ones? How do you think they'll sort relevancy- will they do it similiar to g?

[AussieWebmaster]

I agree it will be well done. And that there is room for more players in search...
It is the second most used aspect of the web behind email so as the population increases so does everything else.
It should also be realized that the bottomline is about the ad sales revenue and not the altruistic desire to help the searcher that has pushed this development.

[Lex]

I too am looking forward to the new MSN. Party line is they plan to "leapfrog" the current technology, integrating your machine contents as well as databases you have access to into their SERPs.

I'm ready to see search evolve a little. There's definitely room for more players.

[Mel]

The first time that the private contents of my machine or databases appears on a public SERP is when I phone my lawyer.

[Lex]

That would certainly be alarming. I meant YOUR serps, not publics serps.

[AussieWebmaster]

Basically they are integrating it with the opertating system... but will be interested to see if it will work on a linux system or a mac... doing it puely from the browser would involve a really interesting trick and take time conditional to your system's speed.

[Mel]

I suspect that the MSN search engine and the search capabilities of Longhorn may be two different things entirely, though there is no reason MSN could not have hooks in Longhorn to make it use MSN by default.

Makes no sense to me to launch a search engine if you have to use a particular operation system to access it, and in addition it may be some time before there is any appreciable user base for Longhorn.

[mcanerin]

Has anyone installed Office 2003 recently?

If you have, look at the new icon that gets installed (without notification) on your IE browser. Hmmmmm.... it says "Research"

When you click on it, you get a very cool search tool that integrates encarta, MSN search, stock quotes, expedia, and so forth. And it's expandible - you can subscribe to other services (including non-microsft ones like lexis/nexis) and basically get an integrated search point.

A link with some more info:

http://office.microsoft.com/marketplace/PortalProviderPreview.aspx?AssetID=EY010687411033

Personally, I think this is a good portion of the future of MS search.

Ian

[stoner3221]

I’m sure another big search will do great but the one major hurtle they will have to overcome is brand loyalty. Mr. Bill is going to have to pour out some major advertising funding to get it rolling and offer services that will keep people coming back. It’s going to take more then a good search engine to bring people back and convert the Google generation.

[bwelford]

I think a key issue here is 'Who's in control?' Am I still in control or am I being controlled? Until Microsoft accepts that I am just as powerful as they are and we're dealing between equals here, they're not going to get it right.

If they say, it's my way or you're out, then I'm not going to accept that I become a marionette with Micro$oft pulling the strings. :)

[AussieWebmaster]

The MSN search engine is used... I see them in my logs every day... part of the mail system etc... why do you think Google is giving mail? Places to put search and to get a share of the biggest tool used on the web.

MSN has a platform in Hotmail etc... how long before they start adding the ads to the mail?

MSN and Yahoo run ads... just not AdWords... but now there are image ads so I'd say the ads at Google will change

[Chris_D]

Sorry Guys,

I just can't get excited about the sizzle. MSN Search got launched in September 1998 (powered by Inktomi) when Google was just 3 guys in a garage. Now - nearly 6 years later - MS is going to 'get' Google.

Bill Gates totally underestimated the monetisation of search. Its taken Bill 5 years to put search on the MS Agenda. So then MS hired a guy from Overture to head up the new divison at Microsoft to build a search engine inhouse - and he lasted about 3 or 4 months at MS.

When the Microsoft BBQ is ready - I'd love to be there. But - right now - like the 'pre launch phase' of any MS product - it's all just sizzle and hype & speculation.

After 5 years of MS sizzle - there are plenty of other great BBQs on right now. So the MS BBQ better be pretty bloody good to make anyone want to go there....

Remember when Microsoft wanted to dominate PC Networking? Back in about 1984/5 MS launched MSNet (Microsoft DOS-based networking system software) Well - at least back then it launched the product - and let the market decide........

[bwelford]

That reminds me that the only Yahoo trademark that Yahoo! Inc. owns is for barbecue sauce. They don't seem to have brought out their sauce yet. Perhaps they planned ahead for the moment when they deliver something with sizzle. :D

[AussieWebmaster]

Sorry Guys,

I just can't get excited about the sizzle. MSN Search got launched in September 1998 (powered by Inktomi) when Google was just 3 guys in a garage. Now - nearly 6 years later - MS is going to 'get' Google.

Bill Gates totally underestimated the monetisation of search. Its taken Bill 5 years to put search on the MS Agenda. So then MS hired a guy from Overture to head up the new divison at Microsoft to build a search engine inhouse - and he lasted about 3 or 4 months at MS.

When the Microsoft BBQ is ready - I'd love to be there. But - right now - like the 'pre launch phase' of any MS product - it's all just sizzle and hype & speculation.

After 5 years of MS sizzle - there are plenty of other great BBQs on right now. So the MS BBQ better be pretty bloody good to make anyone want to go there....

Remember when Microsoft wanted to dominate PC Networking? Back in about 1984/5 MS launched MSNet (Microsoft DOS-based networking system software) Well - at least back then it launched the product - and let the market decide........

The search thing is secondary income... but a growing one... I think MSN left LookSmart a little too early... would have been better to just buy them... though that is now an option because it will not seem as bad when they drove the stock into the ground and forced people to be laid off... now with the benefit of time they can buy it and not look as such bad guys.... Yeah Right!

[St0n3y]

not a fan of LookSmart. Glad MSN dumped them and even gladder they did not buy them.

[seomike]

As long as they stick to the W3C standards for on page tag promminence, and not like Google that totally makes up it's own rules on tag promminence.

But it will be neat to see what they use to score pages when it comes to off site factors (ie linkpop or directory listings ). I'm sure they'll come up with something fun to try and game :D

[AussieWebmaster]

I am still making money with them... but they do hit the door a lot quicker these days.

[dlux]

Though one reason I think it will be hard for MS to catch G is because of the working environments. Assuming the G IPO doesn't really change the culture, G will probably still pull in some of the best of computer science. From the outside looking in, MS looks cold and like a place where you go just to land a good job and get a decent retirement. G seems to be the opposite and I think it will be to there benefit, assuming there's not a mass retirement when they become paper millionaires!

[! !]

Not only is search a competative priority - but now Google and Yahoo has apparently prompted more competition

MSN will increase it's Free and Paid :eek: email storage from the 2MB
default

Oh the wonders of Mega-Corporate competition
http://www.betanews.com/article/1087553239

___________________________________

the latest news is that Hotmail will become a free 250MB service
VERY SHORTLY

http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1616649,00.asp

[! !]

msnbot@microsoft.com

This email is being given out by the SEARCH ENGINE DEVELOPMENT staff at Microsoft - for Webmasters wishing personalized
alized responses to:


New MSN Search ( expect it around X-mas)
Do's and Dont's for MSN Optimization
Crawling / BOTS issues
Feedback and Suggestions, etc...

Of Course one could still post qureries on their new Forum ;)

_______________________________________

MSN is also, planning a new Revolution in Online /Internet Advertising that will debut around the time of it's new Search Engine.

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/webguide/internetlife/2004-06-18-msn-ad-challenge_x.htm

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=internetNews&storyID=5453755


MSN Internet unit said on Friday it invited three advertising agencies to create bigger and better online campaigns to help improve the quality of the fastest-growing U.S. advertising category.

MSN hopes to draw new advertisers to its Internet sites with the program and convince some remaining skeptics that an online campaign can be effective for them in reaching consumers who spend a growing amount of time on the Web.

[Alavina]

Has anyone installed Office 2003 recently?

If you have, look at the new icon that gets installed (without notification) on your IE browser. Hmmmmm.... it says "Research"

When you click on it, you get a very cool search tool that integrates encarta, MSN search, stock quotes, expedia, and so forth. And it's expandible - you can subscribe to other services (including non-microsft ones like lexis/nexis) and basically get an integrated search point.

Personally, I think this is a good portion of the future of MS search.

Ian

Sounds a bit like Sherlock on the Mac. Sherlock is quite integrated, but it somehow failed to make an impact... maybe we need MS to popularize such features?

[! !]

http://techpreview.search.msn.com/
:D

Tell them what you think

http://support.msn.com/feedbacksearch.aspx?productkey=searchbeta&P1=betahome
:confused:

Press Release

http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2004/jun04/06-30ImprovedSearch2004PR.asp
__________________________________________________ ___________

The Relevancy Algorithms so far - seem to prioritize Keyword Frequency in Body Text and de-prioritize Link Popularity. They are unique in that The SERPs are different from those of the other majors.
As a result, the other pages - besides the Home Page of a Web site - seems to have a greater chance of appearing in competative Search-term results.

This is exemplified by the Extremely Popular Keyphrase "search engines"

http://techpreview.search.msn.com/results.aspx?q=search+engines&FORM=SMCRT

__________________________________________________ __________

They do make it easy to complain about Spam Results with a Rainbow Colored hyperlink Graphic next to each result "Tell MSN about this Result"

__________________________________________________ _________

Title Tags are important - as with most SEs- , however, unlike Google, The keyword ORDER is not prioritized.




__________________________________________________ _____________


It appears that Branding (conditioning) aids in the perception of relevancy

Just that mere thought of Google...

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/180712_msftnotebook05.html


__________________________________________________ ______


If your site gets a referrer from The New MSN - this is how it will appear

http://search.msn.com/spresults.aspx?q=

[dannysullivan]

New threads on the topics on the new technology, and the new look at MSN Search, can be found here:


MSN Backend Sneak Peek (http://forums.searchenginewatch.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=438)
Behold the new face of MSN Search (http://forums.searchenginewatch.com/forum/showthread.php?t=437)

[AussieWebmaster]

I am not getting results... but was using NetScape is this IE only beta?

[! !]

:) http://ie.search.msn.com/srchasst/srchasst.htm


this Active-X embeded file allows for some very convenient Search Options and, loads easily on an uncluttered Web Page

_________________________________________

:) http://sandbox.msn.com/

This is the place to play with new MSN technologies, look at prototypes, and peek behind the scenes at some of our new ideas. Let us know what you think about how we can improve MSN for you. Thanks for visiting the Sandbox.
Offers a variety of helpful trial downloads - and MSN Global Search Links


___________________________________________

:) http://channel9.msdn.com/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=7191

An interview - containing optional Audio on Microsoft's new forum - with a prominant figure on the Development Lead WinFs Team about the New Search Options promised by LongHorn

__________________________________________________ _______

e-Watergate
MSN Preview Search Employee Arrested for Hacking AltaVista Search Engine


:o http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/busin...html?source=rss


http://www.kirotv.com/money/3510393/detail.html

[searchengine]

http://blog.searchenginewatch.com/blog/050211-093753

[sofree]

There is room for upto five major search engines, and the only thing that will differentiate them is marketing.

I.e if to young people Google is marketed as "cool" they will use it. And if MSN is branded as high quality (by emphasising Encarta) they will attract people who percieve MSN to be educational.

It's just like newspapers and magazines, people buy/read according to taste and perception about which they should be using.

[skattabrain]

As long as they stick to the W3C standards for on page tag promminence, and not like Google that totally makes up it's own rules on tag promminence.

But it will be neat to see what they use to score pages when it comes to off site factors (ie linkpop or directory listings ). I'm sure they'll come up with something fun to try and game :D

You are soooo DEAD ON THE MONEY!

[seo]

http://www.isedb.com/news/article/1187

According to Bill Gates - Google will be dethroned - because "kids" will want to play with the Tech Toys that MSN has and Google does not

So is this an admission that Google can not be beat on SERPs RELEVANCY?

[AussieWebmaster]

There is room for upto five major search engines, and the only thing that will differentiate them is marketing.

I.e if to young people Google is marketed as "cool" they will use it. And if MSN is branded as high quality (by emphasising Encarta) they will attract people who percieve MSN to be educational.

It's just like newspapers and magazines, people buy/read according to taste and perception about which they should be using.
I agree there is room... but are there users... ultimately it is the traffic that determines the true success and ability to monetize any search engine.

The interesting move has been newspapers starting to get into the local search game... maybe they will be the next success area and the big guys will have to buy up newspapers.... am sure Bill, Larry and Sergey could afford a bunch of them.... cheaper than professional sports teams.