Mike Grehan Stirs Up SEMPO Controversy

[Marcia]

...there is no way they can charge $299 to get into a charitable non-profit meeting

First off, all non-profits are not "charities" - there are different types. As to membership-only meetings, local congregations like churches and synagogues, which do have non-profit status, and should, most certainly CAN and DO have members-only meetings. Not only that, but they can and do also have elders meetings that aren't for the general membership. And while some are supported by free-will offerings and tithes, some do charge annual fees for membership, and some have building funds to boot.

All fair and square, and that's a fact! In my congregation one of the elders is a practicing attorney with a specialty in business law, a member of the Bar and licensed to practice in the State of California - and one of the deacons is an accountant.

I don't know how much clearer it can be that it's a members-only meeting - SEMPO is *not* charging to get into the meeting. If that is why someone paid $299 for a membership - for the express purpose of gaining access to the members-only area of the site and getting into the meeting - then that is their own personal agenda that they are pursuing, and a choice they made of their own volition. Case closed.

Added:

Oh, and while we're at it. This is proprietary and protected by copyright law

http://www.netapplications.com/sempo/

Was anyone granted permission by the copyright owners to publish that publicly on the internet?

[bethabernathy]

I don't know how much clearer it can be that it's a members-only meeting - SEMPO is *not* charging to get into the meeting. If that is why someone paid $299 for a membership - for the express purpose of gaining access to the members-only area of the site and getting into the meeting - then that is their own personal agenda that they are pursuing, and a choice they made of their own volition. Case closed.

You might try getting off your high horse. There are plain and simple issues here that I am interested in finding out, simply related to Sempo's accountability. The organization needs to step up to the plate and make it clear as to what their objectives are. As this has been reitterated throughout this thread and other forums for days on end. If they can do that Great.

I would be interested in finding out just what "personal" agenda YOU think I might have? At this point, I am going to find out what they are all about and to hopefully get some answers. Perhaps that will happen, maybe not, I am on the fence. Unfortunately that information will not be available unless you become a member and attend this meeting. In addition, I want to be able to hear first hand what their deal is as I don't want to hear a forum recap. Attending this meeting is a real drain for me. I had to drive 4 hours from beautiful Lake Tahoe down to this road rage Bay Area (where by the way I grew up and lived in for 36 years), had to board both my dogs (1 of which is only 5 months old). Also, not to mention, that I will not get home until after midnight tonight and that I have client projects sitting undone.

But again, this is just so I can hear it first hand rather than spattered across the internet. I also wanted to attend SES, again living in Tahoe does not give me much of an opportunity to put faces with names and participate in the industry that I have been working in since 2000 (and working hard). That is what I need to do, if I am going to find any good out here. The forum business just doesn't cut it for me, especially when I have been waiting since last August to get an answer related to their operations, membership and whether or not there are some qualifications that are needed to join (which unfortunately there are not). That said, going back to your post about not allowing new membership over the weekend. What exactly was your agenda with this? Seems strange that if you aren't a member and not on the board you would have no authority here and actually it is even stranger that you think you might have gotten somewhere with your post.

On that, here is some additional food for thought:

http://www.canonprofits.org/

"Step 4: Do you really need to be a nonprofit
Does your project really need to be set up as a nonprofit organization? There is no advantage to becoming a nonprofit organization except to secure tax exemption status. Tax exempt organizations do not pay income taxes, and if they are a 501(c)(3), donors can also receive a charitable deduction for contributions if they fill out a long tax form. Competition for contributions and grants is greater than ever. So consider incorporating as a forprofit before you apply for nonprofit status. It is also important to understand that you give up ownership of your idea when you become a nonprofit. The project now belongs to the people of the State of California. The direction and purpose of the project will now be determined by a board of directors. The only way you retain control of your project is to be the owner of the company. Becoming a nonprofit can mean giving up control of the project."

At this point, perhaps it is you with the hidden adenda as I think I have made myself clear. But happily wait your answer to my question. While I spend another 2 hours trying to get from S.F. to San Jose which again we are talking major road rage during commuter hours. Seen it been there, done that and ran away.

[orion]

To theJenn:

I will try to be polite to the best of my abilities:

1. " Actually, I did read all of those posts and completely understand what you meant."

Then you probably should revisit the facts, especially my reply to SEO-PR Guy about the press release issues in post #217.

2. "Yes, there were some issues where it's probably better to point to the SEMPO home page than, say, the WebMama site, but when it comes to things like webmaster links or contact info in press releases, I don't see that they have done anything out of the ordinary."

"Anything out the ordinary"?

Allow me to say you miss important points summarized in post #217. First, it is hard to believe the excuses presented by an experimented marketing guy like Greg. Second, since when press release services are suppose to ADD information to a press release, worse without consulting their clients? As I said, this speaks tons about the nature of the press release syndication service hired. If I run a syndication/editorial service, I would be embarrased, especially when others pin point the obvious. (this is not about typos, or text left out but about adding information that was not there to begin with.)

This is just ONE of the problems with the issued press releases and that's why after we dissected their press releases, they fixed and issued a clarification (check Yahoo service). For that, I do applaud SEO-PR Guy (Greg) and give credit to him. Still they need to fix other copies outthere of the same pr and once for all remove their wrong "hat signatures" and hot links pointing to the SEO-PR and Referencement sites. They should start adding SEMPO contact information and proper "hat" signatures in all SEMPO press releases. Proper usage of the right "hats" in SEMPO sites and press releases IS a big deal.

Posters have been discussing since post #1 whether or not SEMPO inner circle promote their own image or not. We were up to the task. We researched the evidence. Unfortunately for SEMPO we find it in a form of several pr-nightmare press releases. We dissected the prs and presented the information to posters. Then the press release service sindicating the prs had no option but to correct the prs. For that I give them credit (my hat is off to them).

The fact: the press releases became more than an issue. It is a written evidence of SEMPO inner circle attitude, promoting their our businesses through a not-for profit organization. The press releases were circulated by PRWebDirect for SEMPO, at least that's what the footer said. Accordingly, they have no business diverting readers to their sites (intentionally or not) through those press releases. Put one hot link to the above business sites in 1 ,5, 10 press releases for a not-for profit site (SEMPO), circulate it to 100,000 multimedia outlets, and voila!, turn the "silly" links into 100,000 - 1,000,000 links pointing to their own enterprise operations. The problem here is lack of credibility by SEMPO from the get-go.

Now, is time to pause and wait what good comes out from the conference, folks. I'll be the first in giving an improved SEMPO a chance, provided they get rid off those responsible for their lack of credibility.

Orion

[qwerty]

Orion, I appreciate how deeply you've looked into this matter, and I happen to agree with you that it's an important issue. Where I disagree with you is in your apparent refusal to accept that people can simply not feel that the press release issue is an important one. The evidence is there, and anyone who's willing to look at it can draw their own conclusions as to how much it says about the way SEMPO has been run. I don't see it as necessary for you to reiterate your points and run back through all of your evidence every time someone indicates that they don't see it as particularly damning.

I'll be the first in giving an improved SEMPO a chance, provided they get rid off those responsible for their lack of credibility.
So you would not accept a sincere mea culpa from the current board members, along with a promise that, if they are re-elected by the members, they will make major changes? I think that's up to the members. I'm not a member, nor do I have any intention of becoming one, no matter what they say or do. If I remember correctly, you're not in the business. I don't mean to imply that you don't have a right to an opinion (as I said, I happen to agree with you), but if they make changes and their members approve of those changes, I think that's their business -- not mine or yours.

[orion]

Thanks, gwerty. I appreciate your post.

1. "So you would not accept a sincere mea culpa from the current board members, along with a promise that, if they are re-elected by the members, they will make major changes?"

Now we are talking about mea culpa. That's a new element in the picture. If they are sincere, why not? Nobody is perfect. I recognize when others deserve credit for fixing things.

2. "I'm not a member, nor do I have any intention of becoming one, no matter what they say or do. If I remember correctly, you're not in the business."

I am in the business, I'm simply not a seo/sem or se employee.

3. "I don't mean to imply that you don't have a right to an opinion (as I said, I happen to agree with you), but if they make changes and their members approve of those changes, I think that's their business -- not mine or yours."

I take this at face value and think you are sincere at expressing that. I do disagree with you. This is an emerging organization industry-driven. It is business of all involved in the industry, members or non members. That's why they are getting wide open to members and non members at the conference, looking for all type of feedback from anyone willing to speak their hearts and gutts.

Orion

[qwerty]

I do recognize that if they claim to represent the industry of which I'm a member and they have enough money behind them, then their actions will affect the image of the entire business, and that will filter down to my image. I don't like that, but I accept it. My philosophy is not the same as theirs, and I make efforts to differentiate myself from them.

But I can't stop them from saying what they want to say, and if they're seen as representing my industry, the best I can do is stress that they don't represent me.

[dannysullivan]

Let's stay away from accusations of personal agendas and high horses as much as we can, please. There's enough upset over the issue without getting personal with each other.

[orion]

I applaud and cheer for that, Danny.

I would say, we all should take a deep breath and wait. I'm sure some good will come out from the SJ conference for the good of the industry.

Orion

[bethabernathy]

Let's stay away from accusations of personal agendas and high horses as much as we can, please. There's enough upset over the issue without getting personal with each other.

Sounds very good to me. Thank you.

[ihelpyou]

I will also try to be very polite with this post. I'm sorry if I sometimes come off as c ocky or arrogant. It's hard to sit back and watch when this industry means everything to me personally and business-wise. My personality can be hard to take sometimes. I know this.

From day one of knowing about this new org, there have been a great amount of questions asked. Motives of board members and of the Director have been questioned. Emails have been sent. Vague responses have been given in forums all over the internet. Now it's been one year since inception, and "all" the concerns about SEMPO have been realized.

Many of us all have the same concerns. Many of us are not represented in the current form of SEMPO. There are very important reasons for that.

1. No vetting process of new members.
Many see the list of members as a yellow page thing. The problem is that there are 'levels' of membership.

2. Circle members have to give $5000 to be in the Circle.
That leaves out the majority of SEM's and small type other businesses completely.

3. Those in the Circle are given a front page listing.
SEMPO did very good at the start, as one original concern was the lack of disclaimers on the website. They corrected that quickly. If we sit back and think about it, the perception of a website owner coming to that front page is that of thinking that those listings are something special. I know the disclaimer is on that page, but do we really believe a visitor is going to read all of that content first, before clicking on a Circle listing? I don't think so. At the top of those listings is just... "SEMPO Circle Members"

Full disclosure would be something like:

SEMPO Circle Member Sponsorships

4. It turns out that I have directly seen emails from a variety of people and things where a Circle Member claimed something like this:

"But I'm a SEMPO Circle Member"

SEMPO has stated countless times that NO members should be using the membership status to gain some kind of "credibility". This is not happening at all as members are constantly touting their membership to gain an advantage. Right now, there are Circle members using SEMPO to say they must be better than everyone else since they are a Circle Member of SEMPO. This is stated on some Circle member websites. Not good.

5. See all of orion's posts and other real good posts about all the other concerns about SEMPO. They are facts. They are not silly or speculative.

Now: How does SEMPO improve to get the most members to join?

1. The Executive Director must resign, but be given the opportunity to be a regular member. A new director should be looked for in a democratic way that has experience in running a non-profit org. SEMPO could pay this person a good salary for "full" time work.

2. An Assistant to the director should be hired as well. Both these positions should Not be of people or firms "in the SEM industry. See the BBB and how they set things up. Also look at other non-profits to see.

3. All board members should step down, and new board members "voted" in by the existing members. There needs to be checks and balances from top to bottom. Danny's suggestion of "half" now, half later was a good one. The same board members could actually be 'voted' back in, but they would have to step down first imo. The top two positions have final say on all activities of the organization.

4. There should be a level playing field. There should not be different levels of membership at all. The mission is to tell the world about SEM and how it can help every online business. There should be no way that members can capitalize on the fact they are a member. A fee in the range of $100 to $200 US per year is sufficient. This would enable "many" more businesses to become members and not be strapped financially. Afterall, the orgs mission is suppose to tell the world about the benefits of SEM, so the org should be all-encompassing. It should not be for the few firms that have $5000 to invest. Notice I used the word "invest". SEMPO has stated it wants the whole world to join, not just the select few. I feel this type of fee structure would entice everyone in the world to join.

5. Some type of education should be developed into the SEMPO website. Articles are fine, etc, more things should be done.

6. A new website should be designed. The current one is confusing. Of course, this is just my opinion, but I feel that some great and Professional Designer out there could build a top-notch site, complete with database management, and completely search engine friendly as well. It's not a tough thing to do. The industry wants the org to be "the" thing, so it should conduct itself that way right from the start.

7. RFP's should only be received "if" there is some kind of vetting process. Otherwise, the org could get into big trouble down the line. I don't have to explain this as it's pretty clear to most everyone in this forum.

8. Links leading out to other business websites should Not be allowed. Period. You should have a "resource" type page as the only place on the whole site where different resources can be listed.

9. Same as orion about the 'hats' things. Official email addresses should be used only.

10. If there 'is' a vetting process of some type, RFP's should be listed on the website itself where any member can log-in to view the RFP's submitted. This form should never go directly to any one person, or go directly to the board members or to anyone else. It should be posted immediately in the "password" protected area where "every" member has access to the email address and anything else you all have in the form. This could be set up "very" easily by a capable developer.

11. The actual member listings should be by category, and then by alpha order. Again, fairly easy to do.

Well, I'm tired now. :) I have many more ideas as well. I certainly hope you all take this post in the spirit it was intended. I do want to help, and I do feel like I could join SEMPO at some point, just not now. I know the meeting is this evening so maybe things will get straightened out some. If so, great! I just wanted to share my feelings about all of this. These concerns and suggested remedies are shared by a great many I would think.

Sorry that this was so long, but thank you for reading and giving me the opportunity to express my opinions.

Doug Heil

[bethabernathy]

Nice!! :)

[orion]

I applaud PRWeb and Greg (SEO-PR) for releasing this press release. This is an example of how things should be done. Congrats!

http://www.prweb.com/releases/2004/8/prweb146011.htm

The "hat" issue is now properly resolved. Now we have another one, not sure if may amount to another scandal or collateral damage. Let see.


For those of you not familiar with Netapplications.com , they provide the hitslink tracking service (http://www.hitslink.com/). In post #251, this link is provided by Marcia (thanks, Marcia)

http://www.netapplications.com/sempo/

They are using the following marketing material and I quote:

"Private Label Programs for SEMPO Members

"As a Co-Branded Reseller of Hitslink I can extend my brand by offering this indispensable product to my clients. They trust WebMama.com as their search engine marketing firm to recommend tools like website statistics to ensure that their marketing campaigns are succeeding." Barbara Coll, CEO of WebMama.com (www.webmama.com) & President of Search Engine Marketing Professional Organization (www.sempo.org). "

Note they are quoting this as an endorsement of Barbara Coll, by name and by the two hats she wears. To be fair with Ms Coll and SEMPO, I don't know if they are aware of this. In my book, I call this a POSML or point-of- sale marketing line to add credibility to a product. They also add this to the marketing material and I quote:

"As a SEMPO member, when you sign up as a private label partner you get a free stats account to use for your own business.* See below for details..."

Again, why Ms Coll and SEMPO let a commercial site to play the branding game involving WebMama.com and SEMPO names and use her two hats? I want to give them the benefit of the doubt and prefer to believe Ms Coll or SEMPO didn't know about this, but again the picture is not pretty.

Honestly, the more we want to give SEMPO a chance...

Do we have to keep digging and find for the well intentioned and sincere SEMPO members things like these? What is the goal of the above marketing material?

Please bring this matter to the consideration of SEMPO members. What is the business relationship between webmama.com, SEMPO and netapplicatons.com, if any?

I want to give all the parties involved the benefit of the doubt. Whether Ms Coll should resign or stay, time will tell. Again, folks, don't overreact to this finding. Let them explain first, so we know all the facts. Maybe they are not aware of the above.

Orion

[Jeremy_Goodrich]

Nice point, orion.

Afaik, the relationship is between webmama & hitslink.

see here:
http://webmama.hitslink.com/support.aspx

Now, if you sub out the "webmama" with sempo, eg,
http://sempo.hitslink.com/support.aspx

You get an error - that subdomain doesn't exist. So it's safe (arguably so...) to guess (since we can see from this webmama & hitslink) had an a priori relationship...now when you throw SEMPO into the mix, it gets confusing.

Is the president of SEMPO using the membership to further their own financial gain? Possibly. Given that the page pointed out previously looks like an "affiliate" page...it seems the financial doc I downloaded earlier (thanks for the link, btw) should have a line item for proceeds of that sort.

However, there isn't...so either 1) SEMPO hasn't made any money from the above relationship yet, becuase nobody signed up or 2) the relationship is NOT between SEMPO & Hitslink, but between Webmama & Hitslink, which is what I'm guessing, based on history.

Adding up the above, it's a bit rich to be using the SEMPO "brand" such as it is in this fashion...though to be fair, there's a 3rd option, which is that this "cobranding" occured after the financial year end, in which case it makes sense that there is no line item covering it.

Too many questions, and nope - no answers, minutes, etc explaining it all. For every "answer" I've seen punted at...there ain't been adequate explanation.

One last thing - the whole issue of the $78K question: the idea of $300K salary "necessary" for an individual running this org is ludicrous. Senior staff at the United Nations with doctorates from Ivy League schools, that run budgets of tens of millions in their programs, make due with far, far less than this figure for compensation - even with their post is New York, far & away the most expensive of them.

For a salary of $160 (double the "part time" stiped figure) I'd bet, as Andrew Goodman suggested earlier, we could get a list of folks with experience & connections to run the organization...

[orion]

Nice point, orion.
Afaik, the relationship is between webmama & hitslink.

Thanks, Jeremy. Excellent findings. You should thanks Marcia. She posted the initial link.

Now is clear. Ms. Coll:

1. has a business relationship with netapplications.com
2. it is clear she is promoting her two "hats" together for commercial gain.

I must ask someone at SEMPO to step in and officially ask her to resign, asap.

The industry does not need these kind of leadership. I don't think I am overreacting. The evidence is more than obvious and we haven't dissecting the financials and IRS TAX issues, yet.

Orion

[bethabernathy]

no answers, minutes, etc explaining it all.

Per the IRS:

Public Inspection of Annual Returns and Exemption Applications

"A 501(c)(3) organization must make certain documents available for public inspection and copying upon request and without charge (except a reasonable charge for copying)...

An organization must disclose its annual return (Form 990 series), with schedules, attachments, and supporting documents filed with the IRS."

This can be found right on the IRS's website at:

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p557.pdfhttp://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p557.pdf

I have requested this information from Sempo via my Fax 7/29/04. Looking at their financials their year end was March 2004 see:

http://www.integratedresourcemgmt.com/SEMPO_PandL.xls

(sorry for the repeat). This indicates that any individual interested in obtaining detailed financial information related to Sempo, may do so simply via a request. Short of response, I am assuming this can be obtained from the IRS.

Second, this poses another question related to Sempo's birthday. They keep saying that they formed in August 2003, but their financials indicate, in fact, that they formed in April 2003 (4 months earlier). I would be interested in finding out what county they are licensed in, are they a DBA, and if they are, who is the owner of Sempo, short of the State of California.

[qwerty]

From http://www.sempo.org/faq.php (emphasis mine):
SEMPO is a non-profit, tax-exempt organization; Federal Tax ID #14-1891138. The organization is a 501(c)(6) chartered in the state of California.
I know nothing of the laws governing non-profits, so I don't know how a 501(c)(6) differs from a 501(c)(3), but I thought it was worth noting.

[DianeV]

Interesting. (This took a while to write, so it's a bit out of sequence in the thread.)

I also liked what Doug said, and would add one thing:

In addition to hiring a board director who is familiar with running a non-profit, I'd suggest getting legal advice to determine what laws apply and what must be done or not done in order to comply. Not doing so opens one up to problems, wasted time, mis-direction and ... problems.

As a side example, I'd guess that many web designers in the U.S. are unaware of the Federal Trade Commission's Rules of the Road which does involve them:


Sellers are responsible for claims they make about their products and services. Third parties - such as advertising agencies or website designers and catalog marketers - also may be liable for making or disseminating deceptive representations if they participate in the preparation or distribution of the advertising, or know about the deceptive claims. [Emphasis mine.]

Advertising agencies or website designers are responsible for reviewing the information used to substantiate ad claims. They may not simply rely on an advertiser's assurance that the claims are substantiated. In determining whether an ad agency should be held liable, the FTC looks at the extent of the agency's participation in the preparation of the challenged ad, and whether the agency knew or should have known that the ad included false or deceptive claims.

- http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/buspubs/ruleroad.htm
- http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/buspubs/dotcom/index.html

So, this is pretty clear, but it's also pretty broad and the penalties get pretty stiff. While we have always taken the high road with respect to client statements on the websites we've built for them, since we want in any case to be in compliance with governmental regulations, we immediately consulted with our attorney to further understand the regulations and to determine what further steps we should take to ensure compliance, if any. That is, savvy as one might be, and well-written as such a rule might appear, an attorney can clarify matters, point to other laws and legal precedents, and generally give a good idea of how to proceed. Based on this deeper understanding, we revisited and tightened up company policies, and required clients past, present and future to provide adequate proof of claims. While this was not what I'd call "fun", we've also on occasion observed surfers from governmental organizations surfing our clients' websites; no problems to date.

(FYI, since I believe most web designers, and potential clients, are unaware of the FTC's Rules of the Road -- which have been in existence since around 2000 -- I tucked the above links into the cre8asite.net directory legal section. Do I suspect that the "third parties" referenced in the quote might also apply to copywriters and SEOs adding text to pages? Think about it.)

My point here is that guessing at what it takes to be in compliance is hardly worth the time it takes to think about it. Investing the time, effort and expense to find out for certain what is required is worth everything, and allows us to go forward in expanding our business and helping clients based on a good understanding of the law -- and the clean hands and heart allow one to create, unfettered by fears, lack of understanding, looking over shoulders and haunted by "what ifs".

<edited for typo>

[bethabernathy]

"SEMPO is a non-profit 501(c)3 organization. The Board of Directors have received no financial compensation for their volunteer position on the board of SEMPO.

Barbara C. Coll; CEO, WebMama.com Inc.; President & Chairperson of the Board, SEMPO Inc. "

This is direct from Barbara. Perhaps she doesn't know what IRS category Sempo is in see:

http://www.cre8asiteforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=59618#59618

Quote from her is dated 3/24/04 at least a year into the deal. I can't get to the IRS pdf from this conference so I will have to follow up later. :)

[ihelpyou]

Some more ideas.

The main mission is to spread the good word about the benefits of search engine marketing. With that in mind, 'all' websites in the world can join SEMPO. It should not matter what type of business they are in.

Diane's idea with the lawyer is good as well. Matter of fact, get that lawyer to join. Get "all" lawyers to join as many of them would want the value of SEM as well. With that in mind:

Set up an affiliate program so that all members can spread the word about SEM and gain a commission for doing so. They could be the "ground troops" of the organization. No need to pay a manager for this as there are plenty of "managed" affiliate programs on the internet.

Getting back to the listings idea: The members are in categories. You could also have the annual fee to be for a listing in multiple categories. A member could choose to be in one category or many. There is the original fee of, let's say $100 per year for one category. Any subsequent categories could be a fee of "half" the original.

On each category page you have the listings of the members. Business Name, Address, Phone, Email, Site Url is all that is listed. Right under that you could have little icons designating the many ways a member could donate.

1. An icon that designates the donation of monies. A form could be set up easily for donations of ALL types including money.

2. An icon that designates the donation of time. A different one if a member donates graphic design, one for site layout, one for programming, one for articles written, etc, etc, etc.

Whatever it is that a member donates, specify that with an icon under their listing. Each icon could be "clickable" so as a javascript window opens up with the details of that donation, whatever icon the member has displayed.

All of this would entice the members to do what they can, whether it be to donate time, money, articles, expertise, and do so all for the good of the organization. Turn the monies that have been given as a "sponsorship" into a donation made by that firm. AKA: Google and Overture for example. Give them a regular listing, and turn them into a regular member just like any other member. No favorites or special consideration should be had by any firm.

This website should not be promoting anyone over anyone else. It should not be about who has the most money, and should not be about "the more money, the more promotion". It should be completely "level".

Since SEMPO's main mission is to spread the word about SEM, I see no reason why the main goal should not be to get "all" websites in the world involved with it.

About the fee: This org should consider the idea that the more members, the better for SEM. It should benefit everyone. Search engines, PPC, any and all parties should have a stake. The org would rather have 10,000 members who pay a yearly fee, and even make donations of money and time, than have a few big businesses who pay a large fee.

Of course, these ideas should be added to my previous post, and Diane's idea as well. A lawyer should most definitely be involved. I'm very sure a good one out there would gladly donate his/her advice, and would be knowledgeable about non-profits. Heck, all lawyers with a website would be interested to know how SEM can benefit them, right? All websites would love to know. They should also all be members.

Just some more "thinking" serum.

[BillionNamesofGod]

I find this thread really amusing.
I think Mike is probably kicking himself for not thinking of the idea himself.

I had the idea myself, years ago, you see it everywhere.

you know, set up an organisation or body, and rake in subscriptions for doing basically nothing.

It's virtually a scam, and close to many well known advertising scams.
(i.e. creating a directory/magazine in your area and getting people to advertise in it)

Personally, I can see things like this a mile off, it needs no debate.
You either part with your cash and pretend your in some clever clique, ignore it, or set up a clique to fleece others.

Which makes me wonder if there are so many idiots out there who will pay to join such fake organisations for little, perhaps I should have set one up.

But then, I have integrity, unlike most people in the SEO business.
Dare I say it google only had their success when they tried to do things properly.

One day we might see a really useful organisation, but going by human nature, if it isn't a charity it's a scam. Full stop.

No a charity help others, so this is not a charity, saying you are charity doesn't make you one. People who say, they have been helped by you make you a charity, How many people or donations have they made.

answer = none = scam.

[ihelpyou]

Now let's not go that far and call it a scam.

What it boils down to is the fact there was not a clear plan set in place ahead of time about how the org was to be run. The 3 tied system was one of the first things in place, and as a consequence, the board was put into a position of trying to justify and give 'more' benefits to those firms who paid the $5000.

IMO, it was flawed from day one. This is not to say the whole concept of SEMPO and what it wanted to stand for is not a good concept. I just feel it was implemented in the wrong way. As it sits now, it's to benefit a few while alienating the many. The opposite should pertain: Benefit the many while alienating only those online businesses that do not wish to help.

[rustybrick]

The moderators here have decided to close this thread and start a new one based on the SEMPO 2004 San Jose Members Only Meeting.

Please continue this discussion over at SEMPO Meeting at SES San Jose 2004 (http://forums.searchenginewatch.com/showthread.php?t=894) thread. Please make sure to take into account my meeting notes.

Thank you!