Optimising Adverts for Top Positions

[iang]

Does anyone have any techiques/guidelines for optimising adverts so that they are positioned in the top 2 or 3 that appear above the search results.

Thanks

[AussieWebmaster]

The quickest way to garner the top listings is to increase your max bids... if you want to go the other way you have to seriously improve your CTR.

The best way to do that is to set the terms in individual adgroups and try 2 or 3 at a time and optimize so the best CTR gets the most traffic. After a couple of days remove the lower ones and try others...

This will not necessarily give you the best converters just the best click thrus...

[AdWordsRep]

A couple of quick notes regarding being "promoted" to the top spots:

Since I know AussieWebmaster to be a more experienced 'real world' advertiser than I am, I hesitate to disagree that just raising max bids is the way to 'get promoted'. So I won't flat-out disagree so much as provide some additional info. ;)

The algo that promotes ads to the top spots is one that sets a higher performance standard for relevance, as judged by CTR - as compared to the ads over on the right. So having a really excellent CTR is key.

In addition, it looks at your actual CPC as opposed to your Maximum CPC (as is the case for the ads on the right) - so just raising your Maximum CPC should not directly put you up top.

Lastly, only ads which have been reviewed and approved may be promoted.

BTW, I think that AussieWebmaster is right on the money as regards to conversions and ROI from the top ads. Top placement will not automatically mean better conversions or ROI.

Actual results seem to vary widely for different advertisers, industries, etc. All of which speaks for doing everything you can to track your conversions and ROI, and test-out different strategies in regards to position, and so forth.

AWR

[AussieWebmaster]

Since the question was to optimize for top spots... I just gave the quickest way to do it... and did add the caveat at the end that those ads may not be the best converters so will cost you money.

But increasing the Max CPC will increase the ECPC that is used for selecting position.

Who goes where is determined by multiplying Max CPC times CTR... these are ordered and the actual CPC is then determined.

The number has to be of a certain mix to qualify for the blue area above the organic results.

[iang]

Thank you AussieWebmaster and AdWordsRep for the advice, much clearer now on how Google ranks ads.

[NetSpireSolutions]

Hi iang,

I know you question was in regard to boosting rank and although those were answered. You should also be concerned with CTR since you are up there right? Well since I have been working with a freelance copywriter for my present company I can say that they are very underestimated in their role in Internet Marketing. Also, the small amount of money you will pay to hire one will equate to a lot more profits from clickthrough.
T.Mitchell

[AussieWebmaster]

Hi iang,

I know you question was in regard to boosting rank and although those were answered. You should also be concerned with CTR since you are up there right? Well since I have been working with a freelance copywriter for my present company I can say that they are very underestimated in their role in Internet Marketing. Also, the small amount of money you will pay to hire one will equate to a lot more profits from clickthrough.
T.Mitchell

While copywriting is a very essential part of the SEM process, I think the actual CTR requires tight testing of three lines of copy not totalling more than 85 characters... a copywriter could help but a solid headline writer may be preferred - the work on the landing pages would benfit more from the copywriting efforts - pushing the visitor to a sale/conversion.

[NetSpireSolutions]

This is very true, our copywriter typically handles our weekly promo writing and new page content however I think they are invaluable now. As for conversion, the landing page is of utmost importance. The goal for converting is not making the visitor think too hard about what they need. This may mean excellent copy, deep-linked pages directly into subject/products relevant to their search, and also usability testing for on-site navigation. We recently did a redesign and gave every category a "home page" feel with the same layout and header graphic as the home page but replaced with relevant category imagery and headlines and we have seen conversion increase already. We are also benefiting by using the google adtext display URLs to increase search relevancy and thus increasing our CTR. This has been more beneficial from a SERP level. We can do this however because we already have our name branded and thus anything we put behind it in the URL is merely for "looks" as it direct them to our main site.

T.Mitchell

[AussieWebmaster]

This is very true, our copywriter typically handles our weekly promo writing and new page content however I think they are invaluable now. As for conversion, the landing page is of utmost importance. The goal for converting is not making the visitor think too hard about what they need. This may mean excellent copy, deep-linked pages directly into subject/products relevant to their search, and also usability testing for on-site navigation. We recently did a redesign and gave every category a "home page" feel with the same layout and header graphic as the home page but replaced with relevant category imagery and headlines and we have seen conversion increase already. We are also benefiting by using the google adtext display URLs to increase search relevancy and thus increasing our CTR. This has been more beneficial from a SERP level. We can do this however because we already have our name branded and thus anything we put behind it in the URL is merely for "looks" as it direct them to our main site.

T.Mitchell

Interesting... have never really played with the display URL....

[giubany]

The best way to achieve is top listing is by increasing your CTR. Split test your ads on a constant basis. This is what will set you apart from your competitors. Also you might have to increase your max CPC

[Koeing and Strey]

The best way to achieve is top listing is by increasing your CTR. Split test your ads on a constant basis. This is what will set you apart from your competitors. Also you might have to increase your max CPC

You know, sometimes you get so caught up in making your ads, choosing your keywords, and managing your click costs, that you forget simple things like testing and verifying slight changes.

This is a fantastic piece of input, and I am creating a test ad group right now to compare results against.

[AussieWebmaster]

AdGooRoo offers an interesting tool to help with much of this. As well as a couple of other features - alerts to new ads and new advertisers - that help keep you on top of things.

And just so you know just because they have roo in the name does not mean I have any affiliation with them!!!

[giubany]

Split tester is a tool for split testing purposes, it predicts the chances of an ad having a higher CTR in the long run.

[Relevancy]

Does on-page relevance have anything to do with better ad placement?

Do they look at the destination page and factor that in at all?

[AussieWebmaster]

Does on-page relevance have anything to do with better ad placement?

Do they look at the destination page and factor that in at all?

No it is all based on CTR and Max CPC

[farees]

Does on-page relevance have anything to do with better ad placement?

Do they look at the destination page and factor that in at all?

While it's true that a Google Rep is not actually looking at all the landing pages for relevancy, it’s always best to make sure the CTR performs at decent percentage so that your keyword ad is not disabled. Plus Google rewards you for a good CTR, for keywords with high CTR you actually pay less; you get more impressions and a higher listing. But again a newbie can always screw everything up by paying top dollar towards the Max CPC. My advice is use AdGroups to their fullest extent in terms of proper grouping your keywords; this can be very helpful if you have a huge list.

There is another huge advantage of having a good CTR . If you are showing you ads in Google Content sites, you have to make sure that your ad shows up in top 5 sponsored listings on Google Search as the content sites will only display the those top ads.

In some cases they do look at them specially if you are using Google conversion codes, the end user can always click on the "Google Site Stats - send feedback" and give a poor rating with bad comments. If this happens a lot, then your ads can be audited and you might notice your ads are taking unusually longer to appear on Google or worst you get an email from the relevancy dept saying your keywords have been declined.

- Farees

[AussieWebmaster]

You can opt out of search now in the content ads so the numbers are just about the content max bids.

[PPC]

Its certainly sounds nice and all that Google promotes "relevancy" but the bottom line is that they promote the ads that maximize the amount of money that Google gets paid. Higher CTR and higher bids = most $$ spent = top positioning.

Its simple, increase your max CPC and write ads that get higher CTR.

[AussieWebmaster]

Its certainly sounds nice and all that Google promotes "relevancy" but the bottom line is that they promote the ads that maximize the amount of money that Google gets paid. Higher CTR and higher bids = most $$ spent = top positioning.

Its simple, increase your max CPC and write ads that get higher CTR.

Interesting to see how far the industry has come... from enthused newcomers to jaded old hands....

[PPC]

Interesting to see how far the industry has come... from enthused newcomers to jaded old hands....

Ha Ha... and I'm only 28 and been in search for less than 2 years. I actually love this industry. But Google (and Yahoo! for that matter) are corporations and the bottom line is $$, just like it is at my company. Nothing wrong with that, but lets call it like it is.

[AussieWebmaster]

I agree it is about the bottomline.... but it used to be fun finding where that was and playing with paid search.... now it is all a battle.... Yahoo changes to the Google bid model soon.... as is Ask Jeeves and others seem to be looking at this one too....

just keep us in the dark and treat us like mushrooms I guess.

[g7submit]

I think the Yahoo alg. is more of less battle compared to Google's, but I agree with you guys that everything boils down to the bottom line. Simply said, Google alg. makes them more money.

Why would they not treat advertisers like mushrooms? They know we just have to use their services and no better alternatives.

[PPC]

Its funny that the consensus is that Google is more relevant and a better search experience, which to some degree I think is true. However, due to the PPC bidding system of Google, our CTR is often inflated because we write ads with the intention of getting clicks, highly qualified as well as somewhat qualified. You can only do so much with 105 characters (or whatever) in Google, especially when you have to also consider your CTR. However in Yahoo, we have 235 characters (or whatever) to detail exacty what highly qualified customers need to know, even, in some cases, the price of what they will be paying. Consequently, total conversion and total impressions can be equal at each outlet though our CTR is much higher at Google while our conversion rate is much higher at Yahoo!. Our CPA is roughly the same because at Yahoo! we pay a much higher CPC than we would be willing to pay at Google.

So which makes for a better search experience... a high percentage of people clicking on ads with an average conversion rate or a low number of people clicking on ads with a high conversion rate? I guess it would depend on the product/industry.

Personally I am glad that the systems are so different because it makes it tougher for people without our skills, experience and knowledge to successfully do what we do.

[integramed]

Be careful what you wish for ;-)
As the other posters have mentioned, the top spots may not be the best if you are managing ads on a cost/conversion basis. I strongly recommend using Google's excellent conversion tacking, and then watching your cost/conversion. Plotting cost/conversion v. ad rank is a very enlightening experience.

[Discovery]

Honestly it's a complete mystery as to how and who gets a better ad position on any search engine these days.

Fewer characters in ads = Generic ads
Generic ads = lower conversion and higher CTR
Higher CTR = More unqualified clicks (not necessarily lower CPC).

Really, how can CTR be a good indicator of relevancy if the ad is so short and vague...? As I optimize my ads for CONVERSIONs my CTR falls, if I genericize my ads my CTR increases and Conversions fall. The balancing point ends up beeing in a low traffic position.

Unfortunately the only way I can think of truly determining if the ad was relevant is if you track actual conversions. This is already tracked via GA however if used as part of the CTR equation advertisers would falsify the data to get better rankings.

A conundrum, a quandry a frustrating position to be in when your business counts on SEM.

Will landing page crawling help? Perhaps, or perhaps it will turn all these landing pages into optimized content to satisfy the engine, but not the consumer. Again higher CTR lower conversion. How can any engine really determine the mindset of the consumer or their level of satisfaction with the ad?

Maybe YSM had it right, bid for exact position. It's clean, straight forward and easy to understand. Wait.. I agree with something YSM has done.. I need to take a breather. Oh phew, they're changing/have changed it to CTR.. figures.

What concensus do we have at SEW

Should CTR be part of the equation?
What could be better indicators of a relevant ad?

Discovery

[fajitamaster]

Some time ago, I opened an account with adwords. Not the best thing for me, cause I was almost "broke" and my job had been snubbed from under me by "corporate" politics and personal advantages.

So, in an attempt to understand the whole "ad" bit, I began doing searches, going to websites, and basically surfing and trying to determine the best ads. It is not only the "best" ad that will land you clicks... it also has to do with position of ads. Wordiness can help alot, but position of the ad will also increase / decrease your clicks ... CTR

What words to add to my ad group. I have written a nice little ad about my product... shorter than spit, but what they hay. Now we need to "pick" some keywords. This is a nightmare if you are unawares of the "engine" behind the google adwords architecture. Ask google for some insight, and you pretty much get a door slammed into your face. Setting content and search bids to different amounts might help, but dont be foolish and bid a high number to get the #1 spot. You will find that Google will rotate you up and down, with other high bidders. A bidding war does noone except google any good. You need to pick good words for those campaigns, ad groups, and keyword lists ... CPC

Finally get out your sticks and prepare to email combat with a google representative. No... just kidding. You might want to email a techie and try to get insight and suggestions as to how to better your campaigns. 9/10 times they will have a "generated" email ready in response. Patience is a virtue, and one hurdle to overpass on google is their first "50$" suck. Their credit card system is tied to their ad --> content and search adwords system... this means that if any of you have ever noticed, Google has taken their initial $50 for your account, the next time they charge you it will be for more than $50? In my case it went from 65 -> 300 -> 655

The impressions also increased exposure to my ads, and the number of clicks went up.

Why do these numbers make any difference? They probably dont .. in the overall quality of your ad campaign... but the hurdles exist for a reason. One little secret is that Google has the traffic to get you 100 $ in charges in a ny minute if they wanted to. (specially if your product is searched quite often on the net) But in an interest to keep you in the group, they have made it so that they start you off slowly and work up to an acceptable level. After all, they wouldnt want their advertisers to bail after 30 minutes. Patience is a virtue... Stick them before they stick you! ... CPM

Learn the ropes, listen to people, join forum groups interested in this topic, try to conceptualize what it is that is going on (ads, search, keywords, engines, etc). Keep an open mind. Research Research Research (Triple R)!

[integramed]

Well, you could increase maxCPC to some high value which can get to be *very* expensive, or you could try what I like to call the "8-Fold Way" which has (sometimes) worked well for me. Here it is..

1. Use 1 keyword only
2. Make sure the keyword is in the ad headline, possibly as the only word
3. Make sure the keyword is in the ad body text
4. If possible, include the keyword in the display URL
5. If possible, include the keyword in the destination URL
6. Make sure the keyword is in the Title of the landing page
7. Make sure the keyword is in the content of the landing page
8. Do all of the above in a totally relevant way, designed to help visitors in all respects. If any item above cannot be done in this way, then don't do it.

-Ken

[AussieWebmaster]

I like that 8 Fold.... though I would test the impact of that many keyword inserts in the ad.... we have found in the title works well and duplication can actually take away from the CTR - but that maybe as it can lessen the message.

[integramed]

Yes, AussieWebmaster makes a very good point. The 8-Fold Way must be applied with thought and care. It's not just a rigid set of rules because of rule#8.
An example is when *everyone* on the keyword has done the same thing and every Ad has the same title. That looks terrible, and surely is not good for the visitors. In this case the trick is to apply rule#8 and partially change your title- so your Ad is now the one different Ad - and thus stands out from the crowd. Ah, gotta love the 8-Fold Way ;-)

[g7submit]

The 8-fold way is nothing more than an highly optimized PPC campaign technique. Please, don't get me wrong, I am in no way belittling Integramed's ingenius way of being organized. What I am trying to say is that this is something you get to arrive at one way or another when you are tweaking a campaign. The only thing I really find interesting in this 8-fold concept is rule #1, "Use 1 keyword only". Are you saying one keyword in a single ad group? What if you have so many relevant products in their hundreds or thousands? This is where I differ and would rather say a 7-fold way is what you are really advocating.

You can bet that using the 7-fold way with my power spend will not only get me to the very top of the sponsored listings, but would help me dominate it, but does that really show us the whole truth and nothing but the truth?

As I mentioned in my previous post in this same thread, YSM's system is a bit better and straightforward. But it's disappointing that not many SEMs are ready to face the bitter truth like Discovery that to get a good CPC in Adwords you have to spend a lot of "wasted" money as well. It's true, in Adwords when you are positioned at the top, you may actually be paying less than those below you, but before you can actually maintain that position at the top, you already have battle scars written all over you through your dented credit card and creativity in your campaigns. Should we say that's a true judge of a better campaign?

From many of the conversions I have tracked, most of them actually have very low CPCs, by the time you consider all other Adword factors that gives you the edge and compare this with YSM, you would conclude that the quality of your spend in YSM is better justified. What YSM really lacks is the bite of traffic.

In any case, even with the advantages of having lower CPCs compared with competitors in Adwords, I still prefer the YSM model, but that too, is changing. Welcome, my friend, to a world where it is the one who writes the rules wins! :)

[offshelfnet]

Does anyone have any techiques/guidelines for optimising adverts so that they are positioned in the top 2 or 3 that appear above the search results.

Thanks

work on you click through , make content more interesting and catching, and conder a wider diversification

[Krasny]

Hello,

I figured I'll ask the questions here rather then starting a new thread. Let’s start with that I am fairly new to PCP. For the past few months my website was in the blue box for majority of the keywords. Starting last week, I was unable to get into the blue box no matter how high my CPC was. I spent the entire week being first on the right side. What can I do to get back into the blue box? Are my competitors doing something that I don’t know?

[AussieWebmaster]

Hello,

I figured I'll ask the questions here rather then starting a new thread. Let’s start with that I am fairly new to PCP. For the past few months my website was in the blue box for majority of the keywords. Starting last week, I was unable to get into the blue box no matter how high my CPC was. I spent the entire week being first on the right side. What can I do to get back into the blue box? Are my competitors doing something that I don’t know?

If their ads changed look at what changes were made... if the ads have stayed the same they have just outbid you... they have raised their max bids and though they are only paying a little more it is enough.

[PPC]

Let’s start with that I am fairly new to PCP.

Well, there is your first problem. ;)

[Krasny]

Thank you for ur advice. I tried to outbid them, I doubled the bid and still nothing. Maybe I did not give google enough time to register the new bid.

[gan]

Google says that ads have to "qualify" for the spots over organic results. But, to my knowledge, they've been pretty tight lipped on what it takes to "qualify". In addition to CPC, it's a good bet that CTR is a factor in qualifying.

Anybody else have any knowledge (or guesses) on what factors go into AdWords "qualify" algorithm?

Gan

[AussieWebmaster]

Google says that ads have to "qualify" for the spots over organic results. But, to my knowledge, they've been pretty tight lipped on what it takes to "qualify". In addition to CPC, it's a good bet that CTR is a factor in qualifying.

Anybody else have any knowledge (or guesses) on what factors go into AdWords "qualify" algorithm?

Gan

If you have increased bids etc. it has to be CTR - the sad part about that is the top spots create their own higher CTR so you really do have to work harder.... I would more than double the bid.... if it is $5 try $25 just to get moved over.... keep an eye on your CTR and as it grows start moving the bid down.

[Krasny]

How can I build up my CRT from 3rd or 4th place?

Does google use your present CRT or overall?

Will using keyword matching options help me? Options like "" or [], I fugured that might improve the rank.

[AussieWebmaster]

How can I build up my CRT from 3rd or 4th place?

Does google use your present CRT or overall?

Will using keyword matching options help me? Options like "" or [], I fugured that might improve the rank.

If you have phrase and exact going you could get good position with that but only if the bids are high enough.... thinking you will be able to have a low bid in what seems like a competitive area is not the way to go.

[Krasny]

Thanks a lot; I will try to experiment with exact phrases and broad keywords. This one guy is out bidding me, and I never saw his ad in the sponsored page prior to this. My take is that he is biding high without a high CTR. What is a good CRT? Can you advice on a good strategy to raise and maintain a high CTR? Also, I see some ads that change description every time you search, what's up with that?
Thank you,

[AussieWebmaster]

Thanks a lot; I will try to experiment with exact phrases and broad keywords. This one guy is out bidding me, and I never saw his ad in the sponsored page prior to this. My take is that he is biding high without a high CTR. What is a good CRT? Can you advice on a good strategy to raise and maintain a high CTR? Also, I see some ads that change description every time you search, what's up with that?
Thank you,

Using the keyword as an insert helps improve CTR - the ads that change are running multiple ads for a keyword that can be optimised or not by choice so they can test the combination of good CTR and good conversion - sometimes a lower CTR ad will be much better filtering the right traffic and get you a higher conversion rate - so people are always testing to get that better CPA - cost per acquisition.

[AussieWebmaster]

Every time - not every day - a search is done they run the equation for position.

Max bid x CTR = eCPC - everyone gets ranked according to that and then what the actual CPC is going to be is worked out.

I am too lazy to write it all out but this came in a search and looks fairly good: http://www.shimonsandler.com/?p=113

[Krasny]

How do I determine the quality score?

[AussieWebmaster]

How do I determine the quality score?

Have you offered a live chicken to the Google gods? And wiped your hard drive with fairy dust......


No-one knows....

[Krasny]

I will offer a goat.

[Krasny]

Aussie, thanks for all of the help, I just received my copy of Andrew's Google book. Hopefully it will help me with basic understanding of how google works.

[AussieWebmaster]

Aussie, thanks for all of the help, I just received my copy of Andrew's Google book. Hopefully it will help me with basic understanding of how google works.

Andrew's book is a great buy.... add seobook to the list and you hve all the bases covered................

[AussieWebmaster]

Also read everything JenSense has written and drop into her site and you will be gold............

[Krasny]

Can you advice on a good SEO book? and where do I find JenSence material?

[AussieWebmaster]

Can you advice on a good SEO book? and where do I find JenSence material?

best seo book is www.seobook.com

http://www.jensense.com/ she has a pile of stuff to read and listen to there.

[Krasny]

Thanks, will get on it.

Last night I made it back into the blue box, this morning I was among the 3 inside the box. Now I
m not even listed, and I have money left. Any idea's? My one campaing is not working at all, not listed. 1 hour ago it was fine.

[Krasny]

Also, why is that sometimes I show in a top of the search and then if you research the same keyword I do not show up untill the next time.

[Krasny]

Question,

I noticed that my impressions have gone through the roof, yet CRT remains the same. Is it possible that someone is visiting my website via organic link ,and tries to bring down my CRT and relevence points?

[AussieWebmaster]

Thanks, will get on it.

Last night I made it back into the blue box, this morning I was among the 3 inside the box. Now I
m not even listed, and I have money left. Any idea's? My one campaing is not working at all, not listed. 1 hour ago it was fine.

You want to talk with your ad rep... Google has been experiencing some gltiches - we had a major terms like that and it took a bit to get it worked out.

[AussieWebmaster]

Question,

I noticed that my impressions have gone through the roof, yet CRT remains the same. Is it possible that someone is visiting my website via organic link ,and tries to bring down my CRT and relevence points?

If impressions go through the roof and your CTR stays the same - it means you are getting a pile more clicks..... sometimes the CTR does not drastically increase... I would stop optimized delivery and then put three evrsions of your current ad and one version of a new one and see if it can get a better CTR - if it does then replace the three ads with that one and keep trying with the one getting 25% - you should always be testing new ads.

[Krasny]

I am testing new ads. Last months on one of my campaings I had 3500 impessions in a month. Yesterday I had 57,987 impressions in one day. Sounds like someone is trying to lower my CRT so google would suspend my campaign. It was my understanding that Google suspends your campaign if your CRT drops below .5%.

[AussieWebmaster]

I am testing new ads. Last months on one of my campaings I had 3500 impessions in a month. Yesterday I had 57,987 impressions in one day. Sounds like someone is trying to lower my CRT so google would suspend my campaign. It was my understanding that Google suspends your campaign if your CRT drops below .5%.

Only if the searches were at Google.... was most of your impressions from Content search?
The other possibility is they just started expanded match for your terms and picked one that blew out the numbers.

[Krasny]

How can I see if they were from content or not?
Also, does Google still suspend your campaign if your CRT is too low?

[AussieWebmaster]

Inside you campaign you can go to Edit Campaign Settings and there make sure you are on content but also what the bottom bid is............. so check it out.

Turn it off or limit the possible max bid.... a handy spot to hit

[Krasny]

I turned off content search, and turned on Ad scheduling. Should limit the number of impressions. What about the Google's policy on low CRT.

[integramed]

What about the Google's policy on low CRT.

Just to clarify this CTR issue. AdWords ads go out over two main Networks: Search and Content. At the moment Google will penalize ads for low CTR on the Search Network, but *not* on the Content Network. So, if you suddenly see massive impression volume on the Content Network which drives your CTR very low you do *not* need to worry.

[Krasny]

After your help things were going pretty well, I was 2nd 3rd for most of my keywords. Today I wanted to start a new campaign, and some words overlapped in my new campaign with the ones in the main campaign. What I did was I paused my main campaign for a few minutes to see how my new campaign will do without the main one interfering. Well it was not doing well, but I really did not give it enough time. Problem is, when I resumed my main campaign my place was ranging from 4-6th place on the same keywords while paying more then what I used to. Help

[Krasny]

How long does it take for google to start showing new keywords? I uploaded a ton of keywords and none of them show.

[AussieWebmaster]

After your help things were going pretty well, I was 2nd 3rd for most of my keywords. Today I wanted to start a new campaign, and some words overlapped in my new campaign with the ones in the main campaign. What I did was I paused my main campaign for a few minutes to see how my new campaign will do without the main one interfering. Well it was not doing well, but I really did not give it enough time. Problem is, when I resumed my main campaign my place was ranging from 4-6th place on the same keywords while paying more then what I used to. Help

By pausing the campaign you allowed your comeptitors to have more opportunities to improve their CTRs... they jumped up and your cost went up.

[Krasny]

That make sense, although I only paused it for no more then 4 min

[Krasny]

Also, I added a new campaign and divided into a few ad groups. After I few hours I noticed some impressions and decided to see what keywords are working. it said a total of 144 impressions, how ever only 136 added up. Where did the rest come from? my context search is off.

[AussieWebmaster]

Are you sure you were not looking at the first of two pages of results... how many keywords???

[Krasny]

I added about 300 keywords. I'm worried because, I made a post about a month ago regarding a crazy amount of impressions which killed my ranking. I just want to be able to account all of the impressions to avoid low rank.

[integramed]

Also, I added a new campaign and divided into a few ad groups. After I few hours I noticed some impressions and decided to see what keywords are working. it said a total of 144 impressions, how ever only 136 added up. Where did the rest come from? my context search is off.

Check again. There is a propogation delay in updating stats at various levels of a campaign. Wait until "tomorrow" and then look back at "yesterday" to get real accounting.

[Krasny]

Hello Guys,

Due to your advice and “Winning Results with Google AdWords” book I have improved my adwords. My next challenge is to improve organic results, could you please recommend good reading material for better understanding of organic ranking and for good strategies?

Thank you

[Robert_Charlton]

...My next challenge is to improve organic results, could you please recommend good reading material for better understanding of organic ranking and for good strategies?

Krasny - Apart from some of the discussions here, you might take a look at the book discussed on this thread...

SEO Book
http://forums.searchenginewatch.com/showthread.php?t=1133

[bebsie]

you're perfectly right... it's all about the $$$$

[Krasny]

Sounds like a great investment.

Thanks

[AAA concrete]

can amyone tell me how to get my aaaconcrete.co.uk site in google and all search engines,without pay for click.
thanks W@CKJONNY

[AussieWebmaster]

The thread is not appropriate... butI would optimize for the two locations with individual pages for the towns and make sure they are mentioned in the title tags etc. Go to UK directories and submit as the town name and product... also find any location brick and mortar listing options ie. yellow pages online etc. and get links....

[Krasny]

Hi all,
want to wish you a happy new year.

I have question,
can I have both phrase and exact variation of the same keyword?
For example, "sweet apple" and [sweet apple], is okay? I did some testing, and exact match tends to require less $ for the same position.

[AussieWebmaster]

Hi all,
want to wish you a happy new year.

I have question,
can I have both phrase and exact variation of the same keyword?
For example, "sweet apple" and [sweet apple], is okay? I did some testing, and exact match tends to require less $ for the same position.

Yes you can and the cheaper exact is usually because the ad has a higher CTR

[Krasny]

Thanks a bunch,

I will try with both.

[Discovery]

At what point does Google throw out quality for profit?

So if I have the highest CTR of any other competitor out there for a specific keyword just how far can I bring my CPC down? Yes, we're talking about the secret sauce here, but my feeling is that this is not a question of quality control but one of profit control. At some point, yet to be determined, quality CPC* CTR can only bring the rank to a certain level and then bid price takes over 100%, that very point is Googles lowest acceptable margin. I understand this is a pretty simplified view, however fundamentally it is true. So at some point of optimizing our ads we're going to hit a wall, and to go further with ad and page quality optimization is an exercise in futility. Many competitors have reached this "profit point", so in essence after basic optimization, you simply need to buy your way to the top. And that is how google likes it.

With Google and others now crawling your landing pages a whole host of other quality and ranking issues pop up.

The biggest issue I see is that SEM is/has become a game of SEO and you will end up with pages that suite a search engines algo needs but handcuff marketers from creating targeted ads/landing pages geared towards THEIR consumers at the same time.

None of the engines can read images and a picture is worth a thousand words no? What can convey a point better, a Picture or a page full of text?
What do people react to better a landing page that conveys a strong point in 10 seconds with targeted graphics and limited text? Or a page full of search terms, overblown content and deep linking to dynamically driven keyword content pages? And what about industries where the sale takes place offline? Say you want somebody to call or complete a form so you can have a 1 to 1 conversation with them. Some landing pages are meant to sell the sizzle and not explain the world. And when done honestly and tactfully there is nothing wrong with this strategy, yet in a page rank quality score world this will likely not work.

So what to do?
Engines simply have to take the risk of providing more clarity in their quality score ranking formula so honest marketers can market, consumers can find what they are seeking to discover and G can make an honest profit putting the two together.

Sorry, let me have another cup of jo and I'll wake up to reality

Discovery

[AussieWebmaster]

We buy supplemental traffic via PPC for one of our smaller projects and over the weekend we actually had the inactivate go in and out...

in essence we got the CPC down to 4 cents with a very strong CTR and was okay to go to 3 cents but then obviously the competition had a few good clickers that helped improve their CTR and we became inactive... but the CTR overall dropped again and they reactivated us automatically!

If it wasn't Monday I would be testing this stuff... maybe later in the week.

[Discovery]

Wow 4 and 5 cents a click!

I don't even know what that neighborhood looks like.

[WineGirl]

As a total non-expert at search engine advertising, I'm having a hard time dealing with the changes Google has just made to their system. We had over 700 keywords deactivated, some of which had huge CTR's. The stated reason for the deactivation was Low Quality Score. I'm then told landing page is significant to the overall quality score. So I suppose I'm to believe that this is the reason for the deactivations.

I should explain that I manage an e-commerce site for a wine retailer. My problem--the vintage changes every year but the keywords that trigger our ads for that specific wine do not. When a new wine is loaded onto our site (and by new, I mean a new vintage of a wine we have already carried in the past) the URL for that product page is not the same as the previous vintage. If I have to waste time entering specific landing pages for every keyword and variation of for every product we stock (more than 500 on our site) every time there is a vintage update, I'll be at it all day.

Google was kind enough to send optimization suggestions, however because they have no understanding of my business the suggested changes were pretty pathetic and wouldn't have made a dent in the problem anyhow.

My questions:

Should I choose to undertake the process of entering and updating landing pages for every keyword running, will this reactivate those keywords or will I also have to raise the CPC to the new suggested minimum? We're already spending a small fortune on those they deemed okay so I have a big problem raising them up even higher.

How best to undertake optimization of my ads? I don't understand exactly what this process is all about. Should I get on the phone with my Google account rep and let them try and work it out? I'm not sure I "get" what they're after as regards optimization.

Apologies if this is the wrong thread for these questions. If someone would point me to another thread, I'm happy to re-post there.

[AussieWebmaster]

The landing page is either good or bad... there are varying degrees of bad... but not of good.... the Quality Score is moot for the landing page if it is good... there are no degrees of good.

[WineGirl]

Thanks. I think....

[kpraveenkumars]

If you advertise in top positions then you would attract click happy people.

However if your objective is branding then it is good to be on Top

[akintosyali]

If you advertise in top positions then you would attract click happy people.

However if your objective is branding then it is good to be on Top

Agree. If you want to Brand, buy Banners. It is cheaper. Kws will help you brand but at a very high cost...

[raviverma]

ensure
- a part of ad text sits on the landing page.. this leads good quality score.. and ad position too
- the keyword's that you buy, is there in the ad text.. this leads to the decrease in the min CPC

then, you can run your ads at less price and for longer time

[beeri]

guys im telling u mediaboost is the way to go
it plugs in to your account and manage allthe bidding of your campaign using their tool
during the trial they raised my campaign profit by 10 grand
and they only charge now 2.8% of my total google spend

i would try it theres like no risk invovled that way i wouldnt have to mess around with the bidding anymore

[simhar]

If you spend a fortune on google ads, since the url is effective sprayed across many sites - does that also mean the page ranking goes up because by definition there are more in-bound links?

cheers

simhar

[xredburn]

1- Increase your max bid.
2- Split test 3+ different ads.
3- block some less profitable countries.

[abbottsys]

Why is this thread still stuck in top position? It was started in Aug 2005 as a regular thread. Why is it getting such special treatment? Anyway, I just unstuck it.

[AussieWebmaster]

It always seems to get a bump when things change at AdWords... the new position tool brought it back last year and then the responses have strayed