Forum Discussions about ODP

[aquestionoftime]

Moderator note: Post split off from another thread (http://forums.searchenginewatch.com/showthread.php?t=6645&page=1&pp=30) to new topic.
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It's the 'censorship' issue that gets me.

I was recently told in another forum not to ask any more questions as DMOZ editors don't 'like' it. (And ???).

Also the first ever thread I contributed to regarding dmoz I made 2 or 3 throwaway comments as to my opinion. Nothing huge, I'm a relative newbie, I just said that perhaps dmoz wasn't fast enough in any facet to be taken seriously in today's internet world.
I was jumped on by editor after editor after editor. Most very rude, discourteous in the extreme and my 'perceived' character was dragged throught the mud at every opportunity. I was accused of being an obvious spammer, a whiner and best of all, told I had never contributed to anything worthy in my life. I have no doubt if I had retaliated in the same manner that I would've been banned for personal attacks. I refrained.

Well I was thrilled !The thread was closed.

When I tried to post in another section of the forum a week or so later in a subject completely unrelated, I found that all my posts were now subject to 'editorial review'. Isn't that kind of strange ? Why would my post on 'css sheets' be subject to a review ?

I asked in another forum where I could take issues and concerns up privately, (ie not publically in forums as I had no desire to go through that again for a few questions). I was told to stop asking as the editors do not like it. Pardon ? Since when does any forum tell people not to post their personal viewpoints and questions ? Thats what forums are for ?

IMHO there are far too many 'Big-time' editors and the like on forums like these. They are everywhere !!!
Far too many who do not wish to upset them in case their sites are deleted for seemingly condoning a perhaps negatively viewed thread on dmoz. And definatley, far, far too many who are humble editors just wanting to do the best, who think it prudent to delete any post off that may ask an uncomfortable question or two.

I dont have an axe to 'grind' (isn't that just the usual stuff we hear), I just want to know WHY some things don't seem to add up to me as a person.

I have never recieved any satisfactory answers apart from abuse and discourtesy in both threads I have participated in in the last few months, and both have been closed. I have no idea why, I only wanted some answers, I was never rude, always polite and thanked EVERYONE for taking the time to answer me.
But questions and answers, isn't that is what all open forums are for ?

Far to many big editors around like I said in these type of forums, and far too much censorship. I just want some straight answers, nothing more and nothing less.

Whats the problem ? And why won't anyone give me them ?

( Counting down to thread deletion as it 'serves no useful purpose' ?).

I hope THIS forum is better than that.

[MikeDammann]

very good comment I must say. I like it because I have been involved in DMOZ threads in the past and I would have never wasted any time had I been able to express my views, ask some questions and get answers in a curtious fashion (or at least not answers to what some people misinterpreted my questions to mean).

I now am worn out by DMOZ and care less. At least not enough to try to get my point accross and argue with those who don't have the power to make positive changes anyways. If it wasn't for Google, we wouldn't be talking about it. So the key lies with AOL and Google and not the many editors who enjoy using their positions to feel more important than they are.

[PhilC]

To be honest, I don't come across that kind of thread. I see the occassional forum where just about anything goes, and I see some DMOZ editors automatically misunderstanding some comments and, therefore, starting out on the defensive, but I prefer to discuss things sensibly and not frequent forums where there is often more arguing going on than real discussion.

But don't try to change DMOZ. There isn't anything that they haven't heard before, and they are happy with the way they do things. The best thing for anyone to do is submit their site and forget about it.

[kctipton]

Far to many big editors around like I said in these type of forums, and far too much censorship.
There's almost no censorship.

And, what sort of editors would you like around here? Clueless newbies?

[Marcia]

First, I'd like to point out that the first post in this thread was posted in the middle of another thread (http://forums.searchenginewatch.com/showthread.php?t=6645&page=1&pp=30) in this forum, and has nothing whatsoever to do with the topic of that thread.

I have never recieved any satisfactory answers apart from abuse and discourtesy in both threads I have participated in in the last few months, and both have been closed. Now I'd like to point out that since you had a post count here of "1" when your post was made, those other two threads you are talking about are SOMEPLACE ELSE at some other forum- not here at SEW Forums.

I have no idea why, I only wanted some answers, I was never rude, always polite and thanked EVERYONE for taking the time to answer me.
But questions and answers, isn't that is what all open forums are for ?I didn't see those threads, and have no idea what you posted, but if you jumped in and posted anywhere, at any forum, off-topic in the middle of an ongoing thread, then you can assume that was the reason your post was not well received.

This forum is not to discuss other forums and how they handle the most difficult task of moderating; this forum is to discuss ODP. We do NOT discuss other forums and don't intend to start. Your issues can be taken up with the parties in charge at those other forums if you wish - not here.

Now that we have that out of the way, welcome to SEW Forums! What would you like to discuss about the Open Directory Project?

[aquestionoftime]

A post count of 1 doesn't make my contribution any less valid than anyone else's. Does it ?

I wasn't discussing 'other' forums, simply my experiences collectively. My experiences, not the forums (which incidentally I think are great otherwise).

"Your issues can be taken up with the parties in charge at those other forums if you wish - not here."

I did try, but never got a reponse and found my posts 'subject to editorial review'.

"I didn't see those threads, and have no idea what you posted, but if you jumped in and posted anywhere, at any forum, off-topic in the middle of an ongoing thread, then you can assume that was the reason your post was not well received."

No, they were definitley on-topic, in fact I had a difficult job keeping it on topic sometimes. It shouldn't be too hard to find them if you wish.

Thanks for the welcome !

"What would you like to discuss about the Open Directory Project?"

My percieved view due to my experiences that there is a lot of 'censorship' goes on within discussions, and forums surrounding the ODP.
And that perhaps there are too many biased and unobjective persons who work within the ODP 'around' for there ever to be a fair balance in the only public platform there is (discussion forums). Especially regarding any views and questions asked treated with respect and genuine helpfulness.

Now do I start counting again ?

[Marcia]

Well, it just so happens that I started a discussion here at SEW about discussions in ODP forums (in general) just a little while back

http://forums.searchenginewatch.com/showthread.php?t=6010

I fully agree that things could be a lot more productive if we'd all stay with objective, pertinent issues.

[aquestionoftime]

Once again my apologies if you felt I had just 'jumped in' with something off topic but I had followed the thread and thought my post was relevant to :

(Jeff Martin ) "Danny, in my observations of the ODP, if you try to "educate" an editor, especially in the forums (when parts of it weren’t closed) you could be harassed, insulted, banned and wind up getting your thread locked. And that’s with a highly professional 'tone' and not resorting to the forum practices of certain editors who act so unprofessionally."

The thread you pointed out to me I also read when it was going. I found it a very stimulating read.

What I do find hard to define however, is where the line between honest questioning, suggestions for improvement, and perceived greivances stops and straight out 'dmoz-bashing' begins.

Similarly, I also find it hard to define where an editor or two are simply making a point very forcefully, or are unashamedly 'poster bashing'.

As a poster, I found this, based on my experiences :

"you could be harassed, insulted, banned and wind up getting your thread locked."

..to be the case.
I was not saying 'dmoz sucks either'.
I'm simply questioning that on a public platform, perhaps the balance of power and moderation in the many public discussions there are surrounding Dmoz and its practices, (and there are plenty aren't there ?), is unfairly biased towards those who can lock threads and get away with 'bashing' the poster.

I do also find it strange that there are so many editors around on these forums. Since It's been pointed out to me that lots of editors don't even have websites, lots of librarians and teachers so I'm told, editing as a hobby. Perhaps seo and search engine's are not really their forte ? I'm not niave enough to take that statement literally, of course, but it does pose the question as to why there are so many of them active in search optimisation discussion areas. I know what kind of answers I'll get to that (shrug), but it makes me wonder anyway.

"And, what sort of editors would you like around here? Clueless newbies? "

Objective, less defensive and open to questions and suggestions without 'bashing' the poster ?

(P.s I should point out I own one or two very successful forums myself, so I know how they work and the etiquette required).

[aquestionoftime]

One last thing before I probably disappear into the sunset

I keep hearing over and over again, that there's no point posting anything and people are sick of these threads as 'no-one ever has anything new to say'.

On the contrary, I find that it is the editors themselves who never have anything new to say. It's the same old 'canned dialogue' time and again. That's why the threads are so predictable and 'samey'.

I see new questions and new suggestions for improvement all the time from others, unfortunatley, it's the response that is always the same. Never the questions.

I don't know about others but when browsing a forum I'm always interested as to why as site has been deemed fit or unfit for inclusion, suggestions for somehow speeding things up, sometimes seem very well thought out and easily implemented. Suggestions also, as to how a more favourable public face for Dmoz could be achieved given it is the best we have at the present time, also make interesting reading.

But like I said, it's the responses to these which are always the same.

[cbp]

I find that it is the editors themselves who never have anything new to say. It's the same old 'canned dialogue' time and again.
Maybe because its the right answer?

I see new questions and new suggestions for improvement all the time from others, unfortunatley, it's the response that is always the same. Never the questions.
Thats mostly because the so called new suggestions are from those who want DMOZ to be something that it is not and never will be - ie its not a free listing service for webmasters.... or they have a fundamental misunderstanding of what DMOZ is.

There are 4 forums that I know of that have specific rules related to DMOZ or Directory forum (Resource Zone; WebmasterWorld; SearchGuild and WebProWorld) - I have seen plenty of threads locked or deleted at all of them (one of them may have been yours). This only ever happens for one reason --- someone posting in the thread broke the rules. I know people like to beleive there is some consipiracy out there causing this but there is not.

It's the same old 'canned dialogue' time and again.
So the continual posting of "DMOZ is corrupt" "DMOZ sucks "DMOZ is a joke" repeatedly in multiple threads at multiple forums by the DMOZ bashers is not the same 'old canned dialiogue' - how can there be intelligent conversation/discussion if this is the level that its dealt with.

Can I ask why you are singling out DMOZ editors?

[aquestionoftime]

Because this :

(Jeff martin) "especially in the forums (when parts of it weren’t closed) you could be harassed, insulted, banned and wind up getting your thread locked. And that’s with a highly professional 'tone' and not resorting to the forum practices of certain editors who act so unprofessionally."

Only happens to those posters who express a viewpoint about anything perceived as negative towards the ODP in a public platform.

And I think this is plain wrong.

Mabye I'm alone in this view, but it did happen to me, (not here), and I know from reading other threads that it happens to others.

I do fully understand that there are constant threads like the ones you refer to. And yes, they are tiresome. I agree with that. I don't like pointless 'dmoz bashing' for the sake of it just because a site hasn't been included. Anyone with half a brain who reads a bit about the ODP should know that you submit once and leave it there as far as submissions are concerned.

What I don't perhaps agree with is when there are other types of posts asking valid questions, perhaps questioning various practices, offering critique, suggestions for improvment and yes, perhaps disaggreeing with the explanations given, which are also treated in the above manner.

It's 'poster bashing', and I've seen it and experienced it first hand. There should be no need for anyone who has taken the time to ask or provide a suggestion to be "harassed, insulted, banned and wind up getting your thread locked."

It is generally editors who do the majority of the harrassing and insulting and the 'thread locking' ? well I have no idea who does that. Only that this also happens often. Who has the power to do so ? and who benefits ? It isn't your average poster in a Dmoz thread.

Those who now shrug their shoulders and say 'I've given up' asking anything because I know what will happen to my post, or 'don't bother asking anything like that because the editors don't 'like' it. Or 'you're wasting your time, you won't get an answer'. There have been a few even here I've seen with this 'no point asking anything' attitude.

And it's a sad thing to see.

(FWIW I never broke any rules as far as I'm aware, I take forums t+c very seriously since I implement them stringently on my own).

[kctipton]

Editors very rarely have the sort of editorial control at forums you think they have.

[aquestionoftime]

I'd be very glad if that was the case,

but to echo what you said yourself , who else would you as Admin put in charge of moderating a forum covering the ODP, "a clueless newbie" ?

Or an editor with some experience as to how the place works.

You tell me ?

[aquestionoftime]

well, who does have editorial control ?

It would be nice if you answered my question, I am asking politely and would be genuinely grateful of an answer since my original post was of the assumption that perhaps there is a bias of editors in charge in these type of forums, in control ?

or don't you have an answer for me ?

Anything would be good ?

[Marcia]

who else would you as Admin put in charge of moderating a forum covering the ODP, "a clueless newbie" ?Forums are moderated by volunteer moderators. And from what I've seen around ODP-centric forums, it's generally a good idea if moderators with experience in performing hazardous duty assignments in war zones are asked to oversee those.

ODP - or rather ODP editors to be specific - have no control over or say over editorial policies at what are called the "ODP" or "Directory" forums at SEO forum sites. Nor do they have any editing capability.

Each and every SEO or webmaster forum site has their own ownership, admins and moderators, and their policies - and personality.

[Gurtie]

At a lot of forums I think the ODP mod(s) will also be editors but that doesn't mean that they have carte-blanche to do what they want in the ODP forum (at least I assume not - I can't answer for all forums obviously).

ODP threads tend to degenerate because both sides have a tendency to overreact. I presume that a lot of editors are on the defensive because so many of the threads are unnecessarily condemning of editors in general (if someon starts a thread called 'all dmoz editors are corrupt' then that's just asking to upset the editors hanging around, lets face it :) ), and a lot end up with personal attacks, plus a lot of posters are really annoyed by what they see as ODP bias, corruption or ineptness before they start to post.

The thing that bugs me is that they always go around in circles because anything specific about a site not being listed is always on the system but is confidential - so if an editor knows what the problem is they can't say and the rest of us just get really frustrated by the whole thing.

But in my experience every ODP thread I've seen locked would have been locked whatever it was about - they're locked because they end up as name calling rather than because of their subject matter. In other words the fact that the mod is an editor really makes no difference.

[aquestionoftime]

Really ??????

[Mikkel deMib Svendsen]

But in my experience every ODP thread I've seen locked would have been locked whatever it was about - they're locked because they end up as name calling rather than because of their subject matter. In other words the fact that the mod is an editor really makes no difference.

Yes, I very much agree to that!

I have been involved in many good ODP discussions over the years and I have personally often critisized ODP in general or specific ODP editor behaviours and that have never coursed a thread to be closed. It all depends on how you discuss things.

Off course there are ODP editors that will defend anything "ODP" and any editor - no matter what. I just tend to ignore such people as I don't think discussions with them is very valuable. But there are many others around that seems to have no problems discussing real issues with ODP.

Again, if you feel your postings are being removed from various forums again and again I think you should look closer at how you actualy post. It may, off course, be that the entire world is after you (allthough I don't find it very likely ...) but just think about about, could it be you posting style that does it? ;)

[aquestionoftime]

Hmmmmm, yes that did cross my mind.

But I've been online for the last 7 years or so, am a member of numberous fora and run a few successful ones of my own.

I do find it rather strange that the only two threads ever to have been 'locked' on me are those concerning ODP discussions.

Hence my question ?

[PhilC]

The fact that DMOZ exists, is perceived as being an important place to be listed (wrongly perceived that way, imo), and is so unnecessarily secretive, is bound to frequently cause friction on both sides, simply because people are people. If we think we have been wronged, we become irate. If we feel we are being wrongly accused, we become defensive to the point of being offensive. It's human nature.

People are so used to the 'us and them' attitudes in forums concerning DMOZ, and they sometimes start out with an attitude that fits the side they are on. It's what often happens in these circumstances.

But I don't see what the problem is. What does it matter if an editor has control of a particular forum and locks any threads that question DMOZ? There are plenty of forums that don't lock the threads as long as the discussions remain civil. People can run their forums any way that suits them. If we don't like the way a particular forum is run, we are perfectly free to go elsewhere.

I'm sorry if sound a bit harsh, but if you had threads locked against you in 2 different forums, and if you hadn't posted anything that shouldn't have posted, and nobody else posted things that shouldn't have been posted, then go elsewhere. Most forums are perfectly happy with sensible, civil discussions about DMOZ.

[Gurtie]

I do think dmoz threads get locked more than others, but like I said feelings run high in them (just like BH/WH which is probably the only worse subject for thread locking)

The other problem is that (again like BH/WH) they rarely seem to stick to the origional subject, someone can ask a perfectly legit question and someone else will wade in with an accusation or defence which takes the thread off into lala land :rolleyes:

[aquestionoftime]

"But I don't see what the problem is. What does it matter if an editor has control of a particular forum and locks any threads that question DMOZ? "

I guess that's your opinion ? But I think it does ? Matter that is.

Open discussion ? Right ?

Or do you think the above quote is an acceptable modis opernadi ? (sp ?) as a member of the public asking questions on any forum ? Yes that's ok we'll just lock it because...

BTW I should just point out my site IS listed. I do however still have some questions that keep getting strangely 'locked'. I was told my questions were 'straw man' because I 'obviously' had a bone to pick because my site wasn't 'in'. It is.

[PhilC]

But all forums are privately owned, and it's up to the owners how they run them. If some of them want to block certain things, it's their right. We can move elsewhere if we don't like it. As a matter of fact I choose not to visit some very well-known forums simply because flaming and being purely argumentative is acceptable in them. They run them as they see fit, and I choose to visit them or not as I see fit. It's not a problem.

[aquestionoftime]

"But all forums are privately owned, and it's up to the owners how they run them. If some of them want to block certain things, it's their right."

Why thank you Phil, I think you just answered my question.

Especially this part "If some of them want to block certain things".

I did suspect so based on my experiences with ODP posts.

I'm sorry you feel it's not a problem though. :confused:

Never mind (sigh).

[Gurtie]

>>BTW I should just point out my site IS listed. I do however still have some questions that keep getting strangely 'locked'. I was told my questions were 'straw man' because I 'obviously' had a bone to pick because my site wasn't 'in'. It is.

Well we can't have it both ways, if we don't have editors at various forums questions which can only be answered by editors can't be answered. The ODP forum itself is probably the best place to get answers on specific issues I would guess. Or conside PM'ing an editor who seems a nice guy (or girl) and asking for some advice, there are a lot of them around.

[Marcia]

>>Especially this part "If some of them want to block certain things".
>>I did suspect so based on my experiences with ODP posts.Please don't make any unfounded or erroneous assumptions on what those "certain things" might be.

Editors and/or forum mods and/or volunteers don't spend their entire lives editing or moderating or volunteering - or responding to forum posts for that matter. People generally WORK for a living and volunteer a limited amount of their personal time as a "service to the internet community."

If a moderator gets $100-$200-$300+ per hour for consulting services, or even works a job for $10 an hour, they are not necessarily in a position to take a day off from work or postpone client work to babysit forum threads that are serving no further productive purpose than to watch people passing wind. There's a productivity curve for everything in life, with few exceptions.

I think it sometimes begins to appear quite evident that the volunteer time that forum moderators put in for the benefit of community members is given about the same amount of disregard and is treated with the same disdain, and yes, sometimes even contempt, as the time that ODP editors put in toward creating, building and maintaining the Directory.

[projectphp]

...they are not necessarily in a position to take a day off from work or postpone client work to babysit forum threads that are serving no further productive purpose than to watch people passing wind.
Well said Marcia (if a somewhat icky metaphor)!

"If some of them want to block certain things".
I'm sorry you feel it's not a problem though
Mate, not to be obvious, you an always start our own forum!

To understand forums a bit better, try to think of this place as a house. You may get invited to dinner and get to say your piece, but if no one likes it, they won't invite you back. On a forum, the "won't invite you back" part is either a banning or editting / deleting posts. By and large on most forums, one gets to say quite a bit before either of those happens (as you can see here by your own posts).

Also, rather than trying to get us to do your research for you, by asking questions that, in all honesty, you could work out answers for yourself with a minute of reading (have you tried reading anything about DMOZ they wrote themselves?), why don't you do a bit of research about the ODP, and write an article? That way, you get to say whatever you want, however you want with no threat of censorship or anthing else, and can put forward your position without fear or risk.

Heck, if you do that, I even promise to read it (ok ok, I admit, I will probably just skim, but that is the best anyone gets ion the web).

Otherwise, quite frankly, you risk turning into the Dinner Guest Bore From Hell (DGBFH) that everyone simply avoids (and dreads sitting next to).

[MrMackin]

Jim Wilson, rest his soul, closed his ODP forum at SEF of a year and life went on as usual.

[aquestionoftime]

"The ODP forum itself is probably the best place to get answers on specific issues I would guess "

No, they wouldn't touch this sort of question with a bargepole. It's not really in their remit on RZ due to the fact they are volunteers and will only answer questions specifically pertaining to the 'forum topics' listed. The status checks fell by the wayside precisely because of the fact there were too many questions raised by 'disgruntled webmasters', to quote a phrase. I doubt this would last 5 minutes there. But thanks for responding !

"Or consider PM'ing an editor who seems a nice guy (or girl) and asking for some advice, there are a lot of them around."

Most are discouraged from entering into personal contact with those who would have a question or two to ask. It may get too inflammatory in nature and as volunteers it's not really advisable to enter into debate on decisions made.

"Please don't make any unfounded or erroneous assumptions on what those "certain things" might be."

I didn't actually. Read back. All debate here, within this thread for me has been based and questioned on personal experiences. I'd never assume to talk for anyone else. And as we're being told by Dmoz unless you have 100% proof of abuse with DMOZ then don't argue about how things work..., I'd have to apply the similar as in, until you have 100% proof that my personal
experiences are based on complete fiction without any basis of fact involved, then please don't make erroneous or unfounded assumptions about me either. Thank You.

"If a moderator gets $100-$200-$300+ per hour for consulting services, or even works a job for $10 an hour, they are not necessarily in a position to take a day off from work or postpone client work to babysit forum threads that are serving no further productive purpose than to watch people passing wind. There's a productivity curve for everything in life, with few exceptions."

Yes I agree. Yet there are plenty of babysitters around aren't there ? No shortage of contributors from well meaning editors. The same names are apparent on every seo forum I have ever visited. I have no problem with that. But they're here, active and passing wind, just like me.

"begins to appear quite evident that the volunteer time that forum moderators put in for the benefit of community members is given about the same amount of disregard and is treated with the same disdain, and yes, sometimes even contempt, as the time that ODP editors put in toward creating, building and maintaining the Directory."

Don't put too many people on a pedestal and discount others who also offer the same in other ways. As webmasters we all do the same for our websites, we all want to benefit our communities be it online or offline (I do lots of volunteer work offline I don't expect any praise)...and for what it's worth, thats a bit off topic from what I asking.

I have never said I don't appreciate any work the volunteers do (have I ?), or indeed that I personally think of anyone with 'contempt'. I have, however, been on the receiving end of lots of contempt as a webmaster wanting to ask a few simple questions. Nothing more, nothing less.

In not just one but in TWO public platforms in a short space of time. I repeat, I have never had a thread locked on me in all my online life. On my own forums if someone steps out of line I delete their post or posts, not the whole thread as long as it is valid. Warn them gently (as sometimes newbies don't know how things work on a particular forum) and then get on with it.

I asked some uncomfortable questions and I, not anyone else, felt I was treated with distain and contempt.

Again, hence my orginal question.

"Mate, not to be obvious, you an always start our own forum"

I already own three.

"why don't you do a bit of research about the ODP, and write an article? That way, you get to say whatever you want, however you want with no threat of censorship or anthing else, and can put forward your position without fear or risk."

Where would I post that article ?

I know all there is to know from start to finish about the ODP and how it works, where it started, why it started, what it's goal and social contract is, who owns it, who used to own it, what it went for to Aol, threads, pro, threads against in all seo forums, etc etc. I also know that you on the Cre*teasite forum (No Sleep thread) were one of the biggest 'questioner's of ODP practice' on the thread. Research, yes, not obsessive, but have soaked up a lot. I read a lot, yet I personally have only posted twice on 2 forums. Take that how you like.

"Otherwise, quite frankly, you risk turning into the Dinner Guest Bore From Hell (DGBFH) that everyone simply avoids (and dreads sitting next to)."

Like I said, 2 threads for me.... your numerous posts on that particular thread were along a similar vein to this one, questioning lots of editors and asking politely for answers. You weren't happy with most of them either.
Read back. Articulate and well thought out. But don't tar me with that when you are just as guilty as to getting involved with a thread as I am. Not here on this forum, but, there all the same on a public forum.

Am I counting down again ?

[Marcia]

"why don't you do a bit of research about the ODP, and write an article? That way, you get to say whatever you want, however you want with no threat of censorship or anthing else, and can put forward your position without fear or risk."

Where ?That's what blogs are for. There are no editors to disagree or moderators to edit posts or close threads down; they're completely autonomous. Great invention, blogs are! :)

[aquestionoftime]

I don't have the time for writing a blog and the 'Corrupt Dmoz editor' one sort of puts me off somewhat.

This is an ODP subforum within a well respected forum called 'Discussions about the ODP ? Best place for this discussion I thought, unless it's not specifically for that purpose ????

[projectphp]

I know all there is to know from start to finish about the ODP

"Please don't make any unfounded or erroneous assumptions on what those "certain things" might be.
I didn't actually. Read back

Editors very rarely have the sort of editorial control at forums you think they have.

well, who does have editorial control ?
Somewhat incongruous sequence of quotes. You know "all there is to know" yet don't know waht influence DMOZ editors have?

Fair enough. Will you excuse me for sec? Marica, will you swap seats with me? ;)

[aquestionoftime]

I only asked ?

All my posts here have been responses to the post above. Don't take them out of context, it's not productive.

You insinuated I may be viewed as the Dinner Guest From Hell who no-one wants to sit beside.
I stayed on topic, and pointed out I had enjoyed your numerous posts on another forum discussing DMOZ practices.

Try not to get personal. You sound like you're getting so.

And why would you need to swap seats with Marcia ? Or was that distain, contempt or sarcasm ?

I hope not. :(

Ps I just got what your quotes were about, I obviously didn't mean I know all there is to know as an ODP editor ??? (Well that was so blindingly obvious I didn't think I had to point it out to you).

And as to editorial control in forum discussions, well, yes, I'd like an idea ? That was the point ?

[Marcia]

And as to editorial control in forum discussions, well, yes, I'd like an idea ? That was the point.That was answered about a dozen posts back:

Forums are moderated by volunteer moderators. And from what I've seen around ODP-centric forums, it's generally a good idea if moderators with experience in performing hazardous duty assignments in war zones are asked to oversee those.

ODP - or rather ODP editors to be specific - have no control over or say over editorial policies at what are called the "ODP" or "Directory" forums at SEO forum sites. Nor do they have any editing capability.

Each and every SEO or webmaster forum site has their own ownership, admins and moderators, and their policies - and personality.So if that was the point, now that it's finally been cleared up, it looks like it's about time to just call this one a wrap and move on.

[Marcia]

Just as a very relevant PS, since this thread is about Forum Discussions about ODP, when reviewing what goes on on ODP forums over time, as well as some others, it could be a big time-saver and save a lot of stress and grief for all if some of the things brought up in these articles are kept in mind

Internet article at Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll)

No doubt we've all seen a lot of it and will continue to, so we all have to keep in mind that it's sometimes a factor when threads are closed in various forums - and is also some wisdom for deciding if and when to continue to participate in any given discussion.