Are the Corporate Types Scared?

[GuyFromChicago]

I've been watching this section fo the forum for awhile and wonder why the activity in this particular section is so low. Do you think it's because not a lot of companies are not using in house seo/sem, or, is it because seo's/sem's that work for a company are "scared" to reveal that online?

Maybe it's just that no one with a corporate style seo/sem job wants to give away their secrets ;) ?

[Mel66]

I think it's a little bit of everything you mentioned. I often don't post on topics because our competitors might be reading the forum and I don't want to give away our secrets. :)

Also, a lot of us who are doing in-house SEO/SEM wear many hats at our companies besides SEO/SEM, and don't have a lot of time to spend reading or posting in forums. Not that those who do (in house or not) are doing anything wrong - it's just that my job entails more than just SEM so my time is pretty limited. And, many of us are fairly new to this game compared to some of the more frequent posters who do solely SEO/SEM, so we're still learning.

I do lurk on this and a couple other forums and find them to be invaluable sources of information. They certainly are the best source of breaking news in the SEO/SEM world.

Melissa

[bhartzer]

Business-to-Business (B2Bs) and 'corporate types' like you mention have been extremely slow to adopt SEO and Search Engine Marketing in general. They just don't think it's a viable advertising medium yet. They're definitely not scared to reveal that they do it--they cannot reveal something they don't participate in.

Those companies that actually take advantage of SEO and Search Engine Marketing benefit greatly from it. Those who don't, don't.

In my opinion, the 'corporate types', especially upper corporate management, don't understand how they can benefit from SEO and Search Engine Marketing, so they don't put it in their business plan. And even the marketing executives still are paying thousands and thousands of dollars through traditional print media/industry trade magazines, sometimes thousands of dollars for every lead. It just doesn't make sense when they can optimize their site and pay virtually nothing for every lead they get.

The 'corporate types', CEOs, and marketing executives could benefit from an education in SEO and Search Engine Marketing and what they can for their company. They're about 10 years behind when it comes to the latest marketing techniques that work.

[grnidone]

Corporate types don't get the web. At least very few of them do. The ones that do make good money with it.

I was surprised to see how many b2b web sites were happy to pay $20,000 per trade show to get business cards of people who *might* be interested in their wares, but would balk at putting money into their web site where people could fill out a form and be a very good lead for them.

They just don't get it.

[massa]

In battle, never under-estimate your adversary.

What they didn't know yesterday matters not. Today, they know.

They have always had the education, the stats, the resources, and the money. Now they have the knowledge as well. Just attend any TV/Print/Radio ad convention. You'll see the same thing I saw. Trust me, they "get the web".

They may still lean more towards tradition but that is because it works. That is why it's a tradition. It's true many still spend a lot at trade shows, but that is not an indication of their lack of net savvy.

[massa]

sorry. double posted

[shor]

I've been watching this section fo the forum for awhile and wonder why the activity in this particular section is so low. Do you think it's because not a lot of companies are not using in house seo/sem, or, is it because seo's/sem's that work for a company are "scared" to reveal that online?

The reason I don't post in here is because there aren't any purely corporate SEM topics to discuss. Most of the other forums on this board comprehensively cover the SEO/SEM issues i'm interested in.

However, you are correct in that there aren't many SEM/SEO focused corporate roles. Most of the time, corporates tend to outsource and contract large SEM/SEO firms or have web devs, product/marketing folk wearing an additional hat. Usually there's two major reasons - besides the usual cost committment incurred by a full-time internal SEM/SEO department, there just aren't that many entry/low level SEM/SEO personnel available for hire (at least here in Australia). Fortunately, our tertiary education system is quickly covering the gap, with Commerce/Information System degrees springing up at universities all over Australia. Academic staff and students within these degrees have told me that they are definitely focusing on online media - web analytics, search marketing, information retrieval et al

I've even had the pleasure of 1) not explaining what my job role actually entails and 2) had undergrads tell me that they're gunning for my job! :p

[Discovery]

Yes Mel, in-house SEM's play many roles and this is the very reason they can be an effective player within a company.

1. Marketing is most effective when it is consistent across all touch points with the prospects and customers. Interenet, print, radio, TV, conferences.
2. An in-house SEM/Marketing director can control all aspects of how the company is represented in these mediums.
3. Out side SEM's may have some experience with a particular industry, but it is highly unlikely they will have a deep understanding of each companies products/services/brand strategy and so on. This can result in less targeted leads. All marketing outlets must interact with each other to achieve the best results.
4. I believe that executives who only believe in print/radio/tv conferences are the best options believe so because they have never seen a true CPA on these ad spends. This is because these mediums can only offer loose correlations between spend and results. When an SEM gives them an accurate and near real time CPA they are shocked. They have an imaginary number in their head and it is not in synch with what the SEO is telling them. Their knee jerk reaction is to think, well we are certainly doing better in these other (print, radio, tv) advertising mediums and they go in that direction.

Executives have big ego's and sometimes the truth hurts.

If they have the foresight to use a savvy in-house SEM/marketing professional to control all of their marketing activities they will get a complete marketing solution. A solution that allows all marketing activities to interplay with each other, cause and effect can be understood, reporting will cover the whole, and a real CPA can be determined.

I don't want to give out many of my secrets to success either, but a couple cliches holds true.

Do what you do best.
Be the biggest fish in the smallest pond and you will be successful.

Discovery

[shor]

They have an imaginary number in their head and it is not in synch with what the SEO is telling them. Their knee jerk reaction is to think, well we are certainly doing better in these other (print, radio, tv) advertising mediums and they go in that direction.

Executives have big ego's and sometimes the truth hurts.

The amount of 'above-the-line' marketing that goes on without basic ROI reporting is astounding. At a marketing WIP they'll say, "Our latest TV spot was really well received and reached 1 million viewers". Online marketing will then step up and report exact leads, CPA, ROAS, aggressive/passive spend forecasts, competitive analysis etc. - cue the sound of a pin being dropped.

It's obvious that online marketing needs to be an integral piece of the overall pie but surprisingly, it just doesn't seem to happen as often as you'd think, as departmental politics, knowledge gaps, bureaucratic procedures and lack of resources could all prevent deeper integration between outdoor/tv/print and online marketing (This is where a 'champion' to back the SEM cause is useful :))

Of course, a marketing director savvy in both traditional and online marketing certainly makes things easier.

[L]

I think as more SEM's adapt the ROI aspect of search marketing (rather than just ranking), more CEO-types will adapt search marketing.

Out side SEM's may have some experience with a particular industry, but it is highly unlikely they will have a deep understanding of each companies products/services/brand strategy and so on. This can result in less targeted leads. All marketing outlets must interact with each other to achieve the best results.

I've found this to be very true. I am an in-house SEO and I saw the recommendations that the former outsourced SEM company had given prior to my arrival - good suggestions, but as I spent more time in-house day-by-day, round the clock, nose in SEO 8 hours a day for this company and this company only, I was able to uproot much deeper items to tackle than the outsourced company was. Plus constant contact & face to face meetings all day long is very helpful & gives much more insight than what an outsourced company would get.

[Mary Anne]

Curious if anyone has a handle on the number of large corporations that have recognized and have an investment in in-house SEO/SEM?

[nealg2g]

I have been recruiting for SEO/SEM people for some time now and have a few observations I wish to make. Firstly the fact that we all know is that this is the fastest growing media in the world. It has been my experience that for some time it was either 'back-bedroom' or big agencies that dealt with Search work. What I have found with my clients is that big firms are now looking to build in house teams at an alarming rate.

The job market for the last 6 months has been very candidate driven. ie: Lots of firms were looking for staff, but not manyt people were applying. However,
with the introduction of the Adwords qualification (now very recognised) you can come out of the woodwork and get a job in any major company. People in this country are finally starting to realise that the skills you guys have are essential in this day and age.

Make the most of it - there is big money to be made. And for your information I am accepting CV's/Resumes.

Good luck.

[MrMackin]

In my roll as a Contract Affiliate Channel Manager I work closely with the SEM community, both inhouse individuals / teams and contractor firms of all HAT persuasions

I find the corporate types to be more restrained. Less likely to express themselves.

The cowboys [attribution to rc] / privateers attribution to BK] tend to be much more out going - read posting online.

I watched a client try to recruit an SEO/SEM over the past 5 months and the independent candidates just could not negotiate the deal they wanted. In almost all cases it was their "outside" affiliate income they were trying to protect.

In the end they did find Mr. Right

[Joseph Morin]

I found several years ago that the only way to negotiate a decent position as an in-house was to get the corporation to allow me to coninue consulting as well. I accepted a position as Director of Search for a major ecommerce site (publicly held) and accepted a very comfortable salary plus benefits and in addition they modified my employment contract allowing me to keep my consulting company and represent it when I spoke at conferences etc. - it was the only way that they could afford to get someone in-house since I was already making more than they were initially offering. I left that role this past January and they have been attempting to fill my role since then with no luck (9 months).

In addition, lately I have noticed recruiters jumping into this space very heavily and a few companies who 'get it' have been upping the offers to very qualified candidates for amounts most people would consider ridiculous - I mean in some cases this person would be making more than the CEO or the second highest paid person in the company, sheerly because the company recognizes the benefit that the right SEM strategist can bring - and they still have a hard time filling posts because the SEMs who really know what they are doing are making so much or have the ability to command a lot.

Since the time of this original post, I continue to see a shift - I think the corporations who have embraced SEM want to build in-house teams and are willing to spend a lot to carve out their future niche from a competitive sense.