Reciprocal Linking [Archive] - Search Engine Watch Forums

Daria_Goetsch

06-02-2004, 03:08 PM

How is reciprocal linking working for you nowadays? Are you finding less acceptance of link requests or difficulties with the view of reciprocal linking by prospective linking partners? Or is reciprocal linking the best way to achieve linking success?

seobook

06-02-2004, 09:23 PM

I think it is usually far easier to register at a few directories and the like, but there still is some use for reciprocal linking requests. It just depends on how much you value your time and what tools you are using to help save time.

Anthony Parsons

06-02-2004, 09:44 PM

I think it still has a lot of purpose. For example, a recent customer of mine in the real estate game in Australia. On that site I also established a link directory for International real estate sites. Same, but not even close to competing. Using that directory against that site has given it so much relevancy it just isn't funny. The link content alone creates rankings, lands and has helped to land International sales for the customer. That's correct, all from a reciprocal links directory.

You could tell me all you want that they have no purpose, but I can tell you they do, and use good examples like that to prove it. I have also done the same thing with gift sites, manufacturers, etc. It is all in the way you set it up I believe.

Paul

06-03-2004, 11:28 AM

I think there's still a purpose as well and haven't really seen either a raise or decline in acceptance. I have noticed that clients, however, have been requesting more inbound or directory links rather than reciprocal. That's just me though. Anyone else?

David Wallace

06-03-2004, 01:25 PM

When I request that a site owner place a link on one of their pages to one of mine (or clients), I never initially offer to reciprocate or tell them that I have already added their link, unless of course there are clear instructions on their site that one must reciprocate to be listed.

Rather I see if they will just add the link because it is a valuable resource that visitors to their site might enjoy. Many times they will add it without requiring a reciprocal link but if they do, they will tell you in their response and then you can comply to their wishes.

St0n3y

06-03-2004, 02:19 PM

I agree with Wallace, though have found that many who don't specify a reciprocal link is required will not respond to you at all if no reciprocal link is placed. Kind of a catch 22.

David Wallace

06-03-2004, 02:35 PM

That is where a follow up email or even a phone call can help secure the link, whether it end up being one way or reciprocal. :)

Daria_Goetsch

06-03-2004, 05:40 PM

I use one-way links and directory links mostly, which tends to be very time-consuming to do. With reciprocal links it really helps to personalize the email message as much as possible. I know I mostly throw out canned email requests from websites, especially those totally off topic to my site. If you are going to ask for a link, hopefully you will take the time to really look at the site you want to link to you. Takes more time this way, but in the end it may be a valuable link to acquire.

Anthony Parsons

06-03-2004, 07:25 PM

Absolutely David. I think all the rubbish about reciprocal linking is way out of proportion. The nets works of links. What more can you say. As long as you're not building a link farm, then one way, two way, all the way round and back again, its all good to everyone involved.

I like your analogy though dave with the follow up. Nice.

St0n3y

06-04-2004, 12:41 PM

I certainly don't mind canned messages. What I do hate is getting e-mails to trade links when I have a link request form available. Those e-mails get trashed, or if I'm feeling nice I'll reply to tell them to fill out the request form. For this very reason, if I'm seeking links, I look for a form first and only send emails when one is not availalbe. You get a much higher response rate that way, for both reciprocals or one-ways.

bhartzer

06-04-2004, 01:14 PM

I try to stay away from reciprocal linking because of the hassles involved. Directory and one-way links are the way to go.

St0n3y

06-04-2004, 02:17 PM

If done right, reciprocal linking is not that big of a hassle. But the real value is in the one way anyway... so putting your time where it is most effecting is the way to go.

bhartzer

06-04-2004, 04:26 PM

reciprocal linking is not that big of a hassle

Are you kidding? Have you tried a reciprocal linking campaign lately? People get so many bogus recip link requests each day in their emails that they're just ignoring them now.

No one responds to reciprocal links anymore like they used to.

seobook

06-05-2004, 02:29 AM

Are you kidding? Have you tried a reciprocal linking campaign lately? People get so many bogus recip link requests each day in their emails that they're just ignoring them now.

No one responds to reciprocal links anymore like they used to.

Totally agree.

I find that generally if I think a site is good enough to link to then they do not need to reciprocate. I often ask for links from sites without linking back.

It is not that I am affraid to link back, it is just that link requests work best if you have something that interests the other person.

If they are interested in your stuff they may want to link to you whether you chose to link back or not.

I ignore when most people ask for link requests when they want to trade with me because I know I can spend a bit more time or money to build link popularity without the hastle of worrying about what is at the other end of my outbound links.

Also some people who request links will want to put your link deep deep deep within the bowels of their site.

Anthony Parsons

06-05-2004, 07:48 AM

That's why you visit reciprocal link directories. That way your in the right place to begin with because the sites in their are looking for the same thing. Once you have checked out their site for an approximation on your link placement, an email or submission form gets results. Emails out of the blue generally get rejected.

Black_Knight

06-05-2004, 06:32 PM

Reciprocal links certainly still work, and are the regular shortcut for anyone without the resources to perform a proper link-building exercise.

But Marketleap's tools to check link popularity or saturation in the search engines is always going to attract more links than any twenty SEOs managed through begging for reciprocal links, did so in shorter time, with less effort, and so is the far smarter approach.

Of course, not everyone can come up with something new, and above all, remarkable, that will attract links. It takes a rare creativity. For those without, reciprocal links will always be the fallback option.

steve sardell

06-06-2004, 10:53 AM

That is where a follow up email or even a phone call can help secure the link, whether it end up being one way or reciprocal.

Good to see you mention the phone, David, it works. I have only recently been using it as a contact method, and surprisingly have found site owners to be quite receptive. There is something to be said about taking the time to learn and understand another site when wanting to enter into a business relationship with them.

Black_Knight

06-06-2004, 11:40 AM

There is something to be said about taking the time to learn and understand another site when wanting to enter into a business relationship with them.
Well said.

That is exactly the key - to realise that reciprocal links are a business relationship. If your initial contact shows you haven't done 'due dilligence' in researching and thinking through the business relationship you hope to foster, then that contact is destined to fail.

St0n3y

06-07-2004, 04:40 PM

Are you kidding? Have you tried a reciprocal linking campaign lately? People get so many bogus recip link requests each day in their emails that they're just ignoring them now.

No one responds to reciprocal links anymore like they used to.

Actually, yes. I'm not saying its a snap, but if you research properly, contact properly and follow up properly, its really NOT that difficult (although very tedius). I have two guys that generated 400+ reciprocal and one-way links last month working a total of 50 hours combined.

Black_Knight

06-07-2004, 06:20 PM

I have two guys that generated 400+ reciprocal and one-way links last month working a total of 50 hours combined.
That's a pretty impressive result for such a campaign.

My issue with the technique itself comes from the inescapable fact that I can put ten man-hours into programming and garner over a thousand one-way inbound links from the results. That's one-fifth of the time to gain more than double the results - or in other words, ten times greater ROI.

seobook

06-07-2004, 06:24 PM

seomike

06-07-2004, 06:26 PM

A thousand links in 10 hours. I still have some stuff to learn!

You can do better how about 1,000 links in 2 seconds.

Just become a sponsored link in SEW or Ozzu.com :D

seobook

06-07-2004, 06:30 PM

Guessing that costs many a dollar...I do have friends who are doing it though!

seomike

06-07-2004, 06:31 PM

Hey if I had 4-5 links coming in from Google I sure as hell would sell links on those pages too ;)

theBPC

06-08-2004, 02:42 AM

My issue with the technique itself comes from the inescapable fact that I can put ten man-hours into programming and garner over a thousand one-way inbound links from the results. That's one-fifth of the time to gain more than double the results - or in other words, ten times greater ROI.

I'm new to the linking aspect of SEO - Black Knight, what technique are you alluding to? We are a small business, but we just hired a full time web programmer, so I might be able to use this if it isn't considered spam.

St0n3y

06-08-2004, 02:49 PM

sorry, I was wrong on my man hours. It was actually more around 300 hours. Not so impressive, but still very good. The problem with programming is you lose quality. One-way links or not a computer will not be able to generate the same quality we get. (Of course I could be wrong.)

Black_Knight

06-09-2004, 06:21 PM

A thousand links in 10 hours. I still have some stuff to learn!
Well, the links didn't appear within ten hours of course. They built up virally over a couple of months, although many of the really important ones sprang up within the first two days. It is the fact that the only investment to gain those links was just ten hours. No scores of email requests or negotiations of reciprocation - just links driven by the quality of content provided by ten hours of programming some remarkable tools.

I'm new to the linking aspect of SEO - Black Knight, what technique are you alluding to? We are a small business, but we just hired a full time web programmer, so I might be able to use this if it isn't considered spam.
Nope, no spam. Quite the opposite in fact. Content driven viral marketing. Just take a look at demand-lead ideas for new content that no-one has though to invest the time in supplying. The exact case will depend on your area of expertise, the programmer's chosen language, and the current state of supply and demand for information, tools or handy applications in your market.

It is the equivalent of giving away a free gift, but in the virtual world, you only have to make the gift once, and it can be given again and again with no further manufacturing cost - only negligable delivery/bandwidth costs.

Incubator

06-09-2004, 06:38 PM

Dodger

06-09-2004, 09:03 PM

Hello, Im running anywhere from 20 to 30 portals at a time, I only have the one software (no plug :) ) to run it and would like to hear any input from ppl one what would be a very reliable automated proccess (app wise). Any input would be much appreciated

Can you be a little more specific about the portals? Are they similar, different?

One thing I can think of right off the bat is using a central database to feed from, of which you can control what gets fed to which site.

What type of software are you using now?

Incubator

06-09-2004, 09:13 PM

seobook

06-09-2004, 09:46 PM

All the portals are withing the same industry in some industries we manage say "15" portal and in another industry we would have "40" portals, so i really need something that will allow multiple projects run. The current software one of our people is using, is like a link managent tool that checks in all reciporical links are in place. What i would like to know if there is any other types out there so i can make the task more manageable and automated but i need a tool that is very reliable. Not worried about the cost, just looking for the best ( or close to it ) out there

Cheers

Wayne

I think link proctor works well. also if you know where your link partner links should exist you can write a script that checks for you (here is a free one http://www.seobook.com/archives/000277.shtml) also some programs can easily be wrote to spider the link partners sites.

Incubator

06-09-2004, 10:02 PM

Great, thanks you very much, will take alook across the whole site....muched appreciated

Cheers

Wayne

Dodger

06-09-2004, 10:30 PM

I dug this one up at SourceForge called WebSight Directory System (http://websight.sourceforge.net/site/node.php?id=3).

I did not see a link validator included in this, but there are others at SF.net that you can look for in their trove that do have them.

Go to http://sourceforge.net/softwaremap/trove_list.php?form_cat=93 and do searches in this category for portals, links, etc. and see what you can dig up that may fit in with your current system. For instance, this one looked pretty interesting Codename Rainbow (http://sourceforge.net/projects/rainbowportal/) which has support for multiple portals.

I am assuming the you are just doing link verifications, as opposed to reciprical checks ... correct? If so, the best link validator I know of is Xenu Link Sleuth which is available at http://home.snafu.de/tilman/xenulink.html

steve sardell

06-17-2004, 06:54 PM

So, you do not have the skill set to produce a tool or article to gain those sought after non reciprocated links (one way), and you are forced to go the reciprocating route.

You have done your due diligence and found some likely partners,. You have visited the sites, know the contact name, have composed and sent your message.

You get a positive response stating the other site is willing to enter into the business relationship with you. You add their link and check and see yours is posted.

Then what?

IMO, you should be sending a thank you. You may be surprised what this little bit of common business courtesy can do for you.

theBPC

06-19-2004, 07:05 AM

IMO, you should be sending a thank you. You may be surprised what this little bit of common business courtesy can do for you.

Great point! Everybody likes to be thanked, and I bet a site would think twice about dumping your link six months later when they remember that you took the effort to show your appreciation.

jampers

06-19-2004, 02:36 PM

Hi What about link exchange programs?
Did I read somewhere that they don't work any more?

Does anyone know anything about this one?
http://www.linkateer.com

Another thing I did a link popularity check on a site
http://www.daft.ie
and found they have over 300 links but they all appear to be internal hyperlinks.
This site comes up number 1 in google for 'property for sale Ireland'.

And another thing I noticed about it is it has the title tag in twice. Does that have any bearing on it. Is it trickery?
Jampers

steve sardell

06-19-2004, 06:57 PM

Hi Lampers,

I do not use link exchange programs, but I did look at the site. Two things jumped out at me. First they require you to post their code onto your site, and secondly, they give out some erroneous information. I only spent twenty seconds on their site, but it was enough for me.

seobook

06-20-2004, 10:27 AM

often times sites that promote a reciprocal link exchange type idea try to brand themselves as the center of the process.

if you link in to them and they eventually get greedy with what they do with that link popularity then it can hurt you.

in addition link exchange networks can only grow so big before they become useless. as they grow and build value more vulchers will join the network to promote their drug and casino type sites.

i also think joining a link exchange network is way too constrictive when there are billions of pages to get potential links from.

Incubator

06-20-2004, 10:34 AM

I agree seobook. There are billions of pages out there. As long as you stay in the same themed/relative area of business the conversions will come in . These link building or exchange networks are in place for immediate positioning but IMO they will not carry the weight long enough for higher conversion needed from the research put into building the ideal community for your/client website

Cheers

Wc

jampers

06-20-2004, 10:58 AM

Thank you lads that's been helpful. There's no substitute for hard work.
Does anyone know a site for measuring web rankings identical to amazon.com?

Another thing I did a link popularity check on a site
http://www.daft.ie
and found they have over 300 links but they all appear to be internal hyperlinks.
This site comes up number 1 in google for 'property for sale Ireland'.

And another thing I noticed about it is it has the title tag in twice. Does that have any bearing on it. Is it trickery?
Jampers

seobook

06-20-2004, 03:02 PM

Thank you lads that's been helpful. There's no substitute for hard work.
Does anyone know a site for measuring web rankings identical to amazon.com?

I think someone just asked this question and Lex said alexa, which is the best answer I could come up with.

Another thing I did a link popularity check on a site
http://www.daft.ie
and found they have over 300 links but they all appear to be internal hyperlinks.
This site comes up number 1 in google for 'property for sale Ireland'.
They probably have a few external backlinks pointing in if they have tons of internal links showing up too.

And another thing I noticed about it is it has the title tag in twice. Does that have any bearing on it. Is it trickery?
Jampers

I think the title tag twice thing was working in google not all that long ago, (http://www.seroundtable.com/archives/000423.html) but I am not certain that it does now and it is not something I would recommend doing.

Daria_Goetsch

06-21-2004, 02:05 PM

I wouldn't recommend using a title tag twice.

steve sardell

06-23-2004, 01:13 AM

I wouldn't recommend using a title tag twice.

Nor would I. It is something that was often done a few years ago. Some thought it helped with their key phrases, not sure if it did or not as I never tried it. To me it simply looks like sloppy work, a poor attempt at manipulation, and uncreative thinking.

St0n3y

06-23-2004, 03:13 PM

I agree, it was a very short lived practice and reeked of spam.

jampers

06-23-2004, 03:52 PM

If it is double title tags alone, it seems to be working for that site. Unless they haven't been caught yet.
Jampers

David Wallace

06-23-2004, 04:00 PM

If there are two title tags on a page then the search engine is only going to index the first one. The second one will be ignored. I have seen this happen before on sites where the title tag was in some kind of include file and then they added one to the page as well. Therefore in this case it is probably an oversight because having two, three or a kazillion title tags is not going to make any difference SEO wise.

jampers

06-27-2004, 03:59 PM

Hi
Wnat about an add link section like
http://www.nuasoft.com/links/addlink.htm
Is that any good or is it the lazy man's cop out which only attracts useless irrelevant ne'er-de-well sites?

Daria_Goetsch

06-27-2004, 04:38 PM

Jampers, I think you would need to use the same judgement of the link as you use for any reciprocal link. If you are comfortable with the source of the reciprocal link, go ahead. If you have questions about the site, do more research on it. Even though this is a directory set up, it is still a reciprocal link. Take time to evaluate any type of link you acquire.

Some general reciprocal thoughts:

Where will the actual link be placed?

For those interested in Google PageRank, is there PageRank on the link page?

For those interested in reputation, how will the reciprocal link reflect on your website?

Can the link page be indexed and included in the databases?

Is there a problem with JavaScript, dynamically generated pages, etc., and indexing?

Is the link page listed in Google, or any of the other engines?

Will you take the time to keep track of the reciprocal link remaining in place?

Dodger

06-28-2004, 12:08 AM

steve sardell

06-28-2004, 11:22 AM

To add to what Daria said, negotiate the link. Get to know your partners...that is what they are when it comes down to it. I have developed some relationships out of link exchanges that can be very advantageous in the long run. Better placement, more links, etc. Networking.
Well said Dodger. It is a business realtionship and should be cultivated.Too many times I have witnessed folks asking for links and then once approved never to be heard from again. IMHO one thing we need to remember is, when asking for a link we are not only asking for a vote of confidence, but also asking for a piece of real estate. If we treat it like a business relationship, many times the one quality link can and will lead to other quality links.

Terry Plank

06-28-2004, 01:07 PM

Another part of knowing your partners is evaluating their strategies. Silly of me, but I forgot to do it a couple of times! :( In one case a partner was using hidden links, keyword stuffing, and doorway pages. In another case they were cross linking to sites with different URL's and IP addresses, but the content was the same and it was an attempt to create uniqueness when there wasn't any.

Another part of communicating with partners is that sometimes they are doing things they don't know are risky or challenging SE Guidelines. In both of the cases above, when I communicated with the owners in a respectful way, they actually choose to clean up their approaches and I was able to keep a good link relationship.