How many imps does a keyword get to run before it is "disabled?"

[Heidi9771]

Hello,
I am puzzled as some of my keywords get disabled after just getting a little under a few hundred impressions (or less). As a media buyer for many years, it is well known you have to give many more impressions to the creative than that before the performance becomes statisticaly significant. Concerned that my keywords are not getting adequate chances, how many impressions do keywords get before they are deemed disabled, and what are the other factors (beyond the min CTR)? It also seems random as keywords that seem to have a proven record of low CTR get to run.

In addition, over the weekend, we lost a ton of traffic as some of our good performing keywords were put on hold. :eek: To me, it just seems that Googles "rating" system is not very solid and has a lot of bugs in the algorithem.

[wwi]

I seem to recall reading that when a keyword is disabled although impressions are very low, it is because the overall history of that keyword is being used. For example, if the keyword "glass" has a history of having a very low clickthrough rate across many AdWords accounts, when you create a new keyword "glass" it can immmediately be disabled based on the performance of that keyword in the past in other advertisers' accounts.

The idea is that AdWords can be "smarter" based on the aggregate experience of many advertisers, so you don't waste your budget on irrelevant or underperforming keywords. However, it can seem unfair to the individual advertiser. (What if my ad is more well-written than past ads for the same keyword?)

However, I can't find this specific explanation in the AdWords support page... anyone able to confirm this?

[Heidi9771]

Interesting. If the above is true, the system would not take into account conversion stats, or much else beyond CTR. I will post the response I get from Google, as I have written them about this. They keywords that we have disabled are very targeted, and it just doesn't make any sort of sense at all.

[Mel66]

wwi is correct - at least that is the way our Adwords rep explained it. I agree with you, Heidi - just because other advertisers didn't have good CTR on a particular keyword doesn't mean that I won't. But being Google, they think their algorithm is smarter than the rest of us. :D

I don't like the new keyword rating system at all. It takes away one of the biggest advantages of Adwords, and that is the ability to test different creatives. Kinda hard to do if your keywords are immediately put on hold. They are really leaving money on the table in my opinion.

Melissa

[Heidi9771]

This type of "canned" response fromm Google is not very helpful at all, but here it is. Did they even read my email? :confused:
Hello Heidi,

Thank you for your email. I understand that you are concerned about your keywords being disabled quickly. I also understand that you are concerned that a number of your keywords are currently on hold. I will address each of your concerns below.

As you know, Google strives to direct targeted leads to our advertisers' sites and to serve relevant advertising for users. Your keyword has been disabled because it has gained a high number of impressions but few clicks. This suggests that your ad is not as targeted as it could be and is not relevant to a number of users viewing it.

It is not possible to re-enable a disabled keyword. Keyword disabling is a system generated change and it is not possible to reverse this. AdWords Specialists are unable to make exceptions for the minimum CTR requirement to allow a disabled keyword to run.

Please note that if you re-use a disabled keyword, or re-enter a disabled keyword in another keyword matching format, you may notice that it is disabled again. This is because our system recognizes that this word has not performed well for you in the past. Therefore, our system is more rigorous in its evaluation of that keyword.

For another chance to run your ads on similar keywords, you can try the
following:

In the same or different Ad Group, combine your keyword with 2-3 other words to create a more specific keyword phrase. This will result in better targeting, and potentially, better performance.

[AdWordsRep]

How many imps does a keyword get to run before it is "disabled?" There is not really a fixed answer to this question, Heidi9771. It will actually be different for each keyword.

A very brief answer is that a keyword will be disabled when the AdWords system has gathered enough information to be certain that it will not meet the minimum performance standard over time. This can happen in a very few impressions, or in can happen over the course of many thousands of impressions.

A more complete answer requires that I go and collect the pertinent links from the AdWords Help Center - which include a couple of flow charts, and etc.

I'll do that either later tonight, if I am able to - or (more likely) tomorrow morning.

In the meantime, there are lots of answers to on-hold/in-trial/disabled keyword type questions in the links found on this page:

https://adwords.google.com/support/bin/search.py?query=on+hold+keywords&type=f

As soon as I can, I'll compile the info I have in mind as being especially useful, and post again.

AWR

[AdWordsRep]

A very brief answer is that a keyword will be disabled when the AdWords system has gathered enough information to be certain that it will not meet the minimum performance standard over time. This can happen in a very few impressions, or in can happen over the course of many thousands of impressions.

A more complete answer requires that I go and collect the pertinent links from the AdWords Help Center - which include a couple of flow charts, and etc.

I'll do that either later tonight, if I am able to - or (more likely) tomorrow morning. OK, I'm back with the more specific links.

These first three links below will give you a good overview of the various keywords statuses, and how keywords are placed in each status:

Keyword status labels and definitions
https://adwords.google.com/select/status.html

Keyword Evaluation Flow Chart
https://adwords.google.com/select/keyword_eval_flow.html

Three Keyword Evaluation Examples
https://adwords.google.com/select/keyword_eval_examples.html


More detail:

When does a keyword enter normal status?
https://adwords.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?answer=10217&ctx=en:search&query=on+hold&topic=0&type=f

When does a keyword enter in trial status?
https://adwords.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?answer=10218&ctx=en:search&query=on+hold&topic=0&type=f

When does a keyword enter on hold status?
https://adwords.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?answer=10219&ctx=en:search&query=on+hold&topic=0&type=f

As you read the information at the links above, it's important to recall that it is the CTR of the keyword on Google.com that is evaluated in terms of keyword status - and that partner site stats are not included.

So, it is possible to have keywords which have a 'good' CTR as shown in one's account stats (which include parnter sites stats), but which are put on-hold, or which become disabled. This occurs when the keyword has done well on partner sites, but has performed poorly on Google.

At the bottom line, the reason behind this is that it is extremely important to Google to show ads to your users which they judge to be relevant - so that, over time, they'll trust the AdWords ads, and continue to click on them. This outcome is good for advertisers (and good for Google too, of course), because it will lead to long-term success.

One last note: the minimum standard that keywords must meet to be marked as 'normal' is not particularly high. In fact is well below the average.

AWR

[Discovery]

My experience is that there is NO rhyme or reason to the keyword status.

Real life example:
Client one: a set of keywords and creative delivers tons of traffic and excellent conversions.

Client two: competing industry; set up similar campaign and creative. 5 of the top producing keywords in this campaign are the same as in client one's campaign.

Day 1: receive plenty of traffic and convert at an astounding percentage, we are very pleased and so is the client.

Day two: Top 5 keywords disabled.

Day three: Little traffic, few conversions, client not pleased

Day four: client talking refund.

Excellent click to impression ratio (over 18%) Excellent traffic, excellent conversions. So tell me what was so wrong that these keywords were disabled?

Sure our competitors may have had even better stats, but obviously ours were good enough to be deemed relevant, no?

A mystery.

[Mel66]

Here here Discovery. We have run into the exact same problem. Click to conversion %'s in the 15-20% (or more) range, yet keywords continue to get put on hold or disabled. How is it possible that these keywords are irrelevant when they're converting at that kind of rate???

Yet competitors, with the same product and virtually the same ad, stay running for some reason. I don't understand it.

Melissa

[Heidi9771]

Discovery, and Mel, thanks for sharing your experience. It is somewhat comforting that I am not the only one who is beginning to notice that this IS a mystery.

I am aware of the guidelines that Google advises it's customers on, which with all due respect AdWordsRep, are very basic and not helpful when they contradict any sort of reality of what is happening in my account.

My main frustration is that when contacting customer support they can offer little help as they redirect me to the help section on the site, or read off the info on the site.

[AdWordsRep]

Discovery, Mel66, and Heidi9771 -

I'll make sure that the right folks see your feedback - by linking to this entire thread in today's Advertiser Feedback Report.

AWR

[Heidi9771]

Thanks AWR!

[jogrady]

Here here Discovery. We have run into the exact same problem. Click to conversion %'s in the 15-20% (or more) range, yet keywords continue to get put on hold or disabled. How is it possible that these keywords are irrelevant when they're converting at that kind of rate???

Yet competitors, with the same product and virtually the same ad, stay running for some reason. I don't understand it.

Melissa

What is also "intresting" is that even when you use almost the same adtext copy as the #1 ad you still get placed on hold. I believe getting disabled has a lot more to do with bid amounts than CTR. Several of my ads have low CTRs, but high bids, and they do not get disabled.

[nicncher]

I am soooo glad you are all posting on this topic. The Smart Keyword Evaluation Tool has been a thorn in my side since it's implementation. I have spoken numerous times with my Google rep with basically the same explanation that AdwordsRep has contributed here. Besides the problems you have both spoken about previously, I have two addition points. First, I understand that Google 'decides' what keywords work and what don't based only on searches actually done on Google and not the partner sites....but WHY?! I lost many very good converting keywords from these sites because searches on the Google site weren't coverting. Google does offer partner sites as part of it's adwords program, surely they should take it into account when making these 'judgement' calls on keywords. Secondly, Google may be the largest search engine with the most highly saught after advertising space, but does that mean that they know more than the actual marketer and their adwords accounts?! Nobody knows more about my accounts than I do before and after the Smart Keyword Evalution tool came out. What is important about this is that my accounts were fending better before the keyword evaluations began. Google is telling me that it is better for my results but my weblogs are telling me it is not. How do I win here? Without choice I have been conforming to the Google God.

Sorry for the rant but I just wanted to contribute something in case GoogleRep, you do get the thread past on.

[Mel66]

Several of my ads have low CTRs, but high bids, and they do not get disabled.
I wonder how high one has to bid for this to happen. I'm in a relatively low average-order industry, where bids over $1/click are considered pretty high. I've set some max CPCs on Adwords at over $5/click, and the ads STILL get disabled. Even at a max of $15 (!) I've gotten disabled. Pretty ridiculous when the cost of a click is more than the product itself costs! Obviously I can't afford to pay $15 for a click, but there is no way my competitors can afford that either unless they are making money in some other industry (which is possible, but not the case for some competitors whose ads somehow stay running when mine don't).

I agree - the new keyword evaluation system is the pits. I wish they'd go back to the old one where we at least get 1,000 impressions before going down.

Melissa

[vivekzaveri]

I was told by my rep that google evaluates the keywords CTR on Google.com only. The numbers that you see in the google interface is not only from Google but all their search partners as well..AOL, AskJeeves etc. So even though your overall CTR may be 5.00% but if on Google.com it is 1.00%(for instance) Google will take actions against that keyword.
Furthermore...sometimes even before the keyword gets any impression they get slowed down...this happens when google compares the keyword with competitors and other people bidding on the same word and seeing their historical performance.
This is what I have understood so far. I was in the same boat at several of you.

[B-Double-U]

One thing that I have noticed, that many people tend to overlook is the fact that keywords are relevant to who or what they are relevant to.

Meaning, that on keyword can be relevant across many venues and more or less relevant to you and your industry. Let me give an example to explain:

I have a keyword called "Magic Bullet" , it is the name of a suppository that is used by many people with specific medical conditions. This keyword has always done very well for us in the past because it is the name brand of the product. Recently, a company came out with, and marketed very well I might add, a totally different product with the same name. This new product is called the "magic bullet blender", which is a cooking blender.

Now, my keywords have been disabled from Google, Overture, and many shopping sites because, as a percentage, it was deemed to be no longer relevant to the term "magic bullet". This is an issue that nobody in the industry has dealt with. I think it is because you cannot automate a differentiation between the content based on a user's intention.

90% of the people may now be searching for the blender, but as a whole number, the same people that used to make up 100% of the searches for magic blender (the suppository) now only make up 10% of the searchers.

I have tried to get my contacts at various companies to look at this and manage my issues by exception, but some just don’t have the resources to implement such a request.

It's the same Utilitarianistic principle of basing results on Quantitative data rather than a combination of Qualitative & Quantitative findings. I think it all falls back on resources and how much more resources the latter takes.

What do you think?

[george]

Just to add a piece into the mix you might find interesting.

I recently set up an account with 1000 odd phrases, some would be very low click through, but relevant all the same. There was no money in the account, as I had not put in a credit card, so there were no click throughs at all.

Brand new acc. No history.

So why were some phrases on hold? It can only be from data collected on other accounts. I had 3 adverts set up, all with the phrase matched etc, so I think it very unlikely the on hold was caused by anything in my account.

Anyone else had this experience? Set up a new acc and try it :) .

So the answer is zero.

[vivekzaveri]

Brad I dont see why you should be having this issue with Oveture . At overture all you need to do is get pass their editorial and your keyword should never get disabled. As far as i know Overture doesnt judge the keyword on its performance, all that matters to them is relevancy.
Please correct me if i am wrong.

[Mel66]

Actually Overture does have a "click index" which is basically a minimum CTR, and if your keyword falls below that for a period of time, it will get disabled (deleted, really). This has happened to us for 2-3 keywords in their network. However, only one of them is for a top-selling product - unlike Google, where most of our best keywords on our top sellers have been disabled time and again.

Melissa

[summercamp]

What I find odd is that I have keywords that are "on hold" for searches that display no ads. They say I can't have too many "new keywords" at the same time and so the words might come online with time, but that doesn't seem to happen.

The oddest part is that since nobody else (or in some cases only one other person) is bidding on these keywords, they're depriving themselves of revenue. I'd be happy to pay for clicks on these keywords that I think are good and nobody else is! :confused:

[AdWordsRep]

The oddest part is that since nobody else (or in some cases only one other person) is bidding on these keywords, they're depriving themselves of revenue...[quote] Welcome to the Forum, summercamp! I just stopped by for a bit, and saw your question.

You are quite correct, and there is a pretty straightforward explanation, which I've posted below. (Full disclosure: I've excerpted this response from my answer to a similar question on another AdWords Forum recently.)

So, here is that post:

[quote]This is a very important question, with what I hope is a very clear-cut answer. To sum it up really briefly:

* It is extremely important to Google to show relevant ads to our users, as judged by those users. So ads must meet a minimal standard of relevance to users, as measured by CTR, in order to continue to run.

* Keywords below the minimum standard are disabled, because Google users have not found the ads that appeared for them to be very relevant to their search. Continuing to show the ads would provide a bad user experience - and so they are not shown - in spite of the fact that both the advertiser and Google could make money by showing them.

* Google loses money on every disabled keyword. However, we'd rather turn down the money in the short term, in order to build a program that users trust in the long term.

* Google users who trust AdWords will continue to click on AdWords ads. This is good for the advertiser, no? And it's good for Google too, of course.
I do know that you were referring to on-hold keywords, and this response refers to disabled keywords. Still the principle behind why we'd prefer to lose money by not showing ads is the same: we want to show relevant ads so that users trust AdWords ads over time - and click on them. And were willing to lose money in the short term, in pursuit of that long term goal.

Hope that makes some sense. :)

AWR

[szonika]

I really do not understand something regarding Google Adwords.
I have made a new (my very first) Google campaign, also transferred 10.000 HUF (it was the min. amount for Hungary) more that 2 weeks ago, but nothing happened. :confused:
Google does not display the advertisement, non of the keywords are work... :mad:
Am I wrong something ???

Many thank for any help.

[dannysullivan]

We want to show relevant ads so that users trust AdWords ads over time - and click on them. And were willing to lose money in the short term, in pursuit of that long term goal.

Definitely understand and appreciate the reason, but I was wondering. Does Google monitor the clickthroughs on the unpaid results and drop listings out there, if no one clicks or clicks in much less proportion than you would expect?

I know it's outside your area, but perhaps you could get someone to give us an answer. I'm assuming this isn't the case -- which make it ironic that the paid ads are held up to higher standards than the unpaid listings.

[szonika]

Hi dannysullivan,

OK, but the strangest thing is that we have transferred the money on 07. apr,
but my adwords profile does not let me to start campaign, saying I have not paid the money... :(

(sorry my bad english)

Laszlo

[Sapphire]

I just recently ran my first AdWords campaign, and assumed I was completely ignorant, because it did horribly.

The main keywords I had hoped to test were slowed down as soon as I entered them. Literally. I would add them, log out, log back in and they were disabled or slowed down.

Far less targeted keywords for my niche were allowed - and performed dismally, as they brought in searchers looking for something adjacent to what my site offered.

Given my inexperience and lack of knowledge, I'm not about to say my campaign would have performed better had I been allowed to test the keywords I designed the site for. I'm sure I did things wrong, and it's also possible the market just isn't online yet for what I was offering. But I don't have any data on the keywords I designed the site for, so I have no idea how to retool my site for better results.

Question: how does Google calculate that a keyword is definitely, without a doubt, worthless for everyone, including new sites which may be using the term in a whole new context? For example, someone above said that "glass" has a bad history. Okay, does Google monitor pop culture to make sure "glass" hasn't recently been redefined by credit-card wielding college kids who use it as an adjective referring to something that sells very, very well online?

If they disallow the keyword, how can they gather NEW data over time, if that keyword changes context, or search trends change? Edited to add: I assume they will track its performance on OTHER networks, but I personally have not found much correlation between search results on Google and on any other service.

And how do they determine that the poor performance isn't to do with spamsters abusing the keyword?

[Mel66]

Excellent points Sapphire. These are the very questions I posed to our Adwords rep, with no satisfactory answer in my opinion. The name of the game in marketing is testing, to find something new that works better or is more in keeping with current trends. Under the current system, this can't happen in Adwords due to their keyword evaluation system. It's beyond frustrating.

Melissa

[Sapphire]

Well, I suppose Google is under no obligation to help us test our marketing theories via AdWords.

What frustrated me was that the main keyword(s) I had hoped to use gets only a hundred+ fewer searches per day than another keyword they did allow me to use. And it also looked good in Nichebot, having a fairly low ratio of competition. So what is Google's criteria for poor performance? More importantly, how can we predict what terms will be disallowed, and what ones accepted? I actually designed my site around that keyword set - for the SERPs as well as AdWords. Now I guess I'll have to wait for it to gain steam in the SERPs to see whether this site is any good, or just a waste of time.

[Mel66]

Well, I suppose Google is under no obligation to help us test our marketing theories via AdWords.
You're right, Sapphire. However, if they'd let me test my theories, I'd find out which keywords and ads get the best CTR and conversion, and thereby which keywords and ads I'd be willing to spend the most money on. Since I know I get conversions from the keywords they've put on hold or disabled, they're leaving money on the table. If I were a stockholder I'd be pretty disturbed if I knew that. Makes no sense.

I don't know of any way to find out in advance what terms will be allowed and what terms won't. I think you have to find out by trial and error. Many of the main key phrases for our site are on hold, too. Yet I know from keyword research and other PPC programd that these are the the most relevant and highly-searched terms. Go figure. Luckily we do get decent rankings on them in the SERPS.

Melissa

[danielanaidu]

Brand new acc. No history.

So why were some phrases on hold? It can only be from data collected on other accounts. I had 3 adverts set up, all with the phrase matched etc, so I think it very unlikely the on hold was caused by anything in my account.


You are absolutely right. I had the exact same experience a couple of days ago.

[Sapphire]

Does anyone feel like they understand Google's rationale on this? I admit I still don't understand the answers we've been given.

[Chris Boggs]

Where the heck is the "restore Full Delivery" button I am supposed to find on the campaign summary page once I have "made improvements" to keywords "In Trial" or "On Hold?" please someone tell me? Do I maybe need to login into the actual account instead of our client center?

[Chris Boggs]

Where the heck is the "restore Full Delivery" button I am supposed to find on the campaign summary page once I have "made improvements" to keywords "In Trial" or "On Hold?" please someone tell me? Do I maybe need to login into the actual account instead of our client center?

I asked this question in the feedback from our client center...and got a canned response saying they couldn't even find my account under the email listed...jeeez

also, they mentioned that the "restore full delivery button" "sometimes" doesn't appear??? what the heck is it mentioned in the FAQ for then????? aaaarg :mad:

[AdWordsRep]

also, they mentioned that the "restore full delivery button" "sometimes" doesn't appear??? A few quick words on how/why the 'Restore Full Delivery' button can disappear, Chris Boggs:

When an account is 'slowed', delivery slows considerably, but is not stopped. Bottom line, the most successful keywords will be getting all the impressions, while the 'in-trial' keywords will not be getting any.

And, under these circumstances (i.e. with the best keywords still running), its entirely possible that overall CTR of the account will improve to the point where it's no longer slowed.

And when this occurs, the 'Restore Full Delivery' button will automatically go away.

Hope that makes sense. :)

AWR

[Chris Boggs]

thanks AWR for the reply...so maybe some day I'll actually see that 'Restore Full Delivery' button :p

It would be great if you could comment on the idea that a keyword like "Ford Truck," for example, could be immediately in trial or disabled, based on prior performance. In our specific case, the market was local--so does that mean that in the past, in our market, that keyword did not perform well? Is it possible that "someone" has the rights to that keyword and you simply won't let anyone else use it? I understand if you cannot comment on that, but figured I might as well ask ;)

[AdWordsRep]

thanks AWR for the reply...so maybe some day I'll actually see that 'Restore Full Delivery' button Well, yes, you might. But let's hope not. ;)

It would be great if you could comment on the idea that a keyword like "Ford Truck," for example, could be immediately in trial or disabled, based on prior performance. This is short question that has a really long answer. For a thorough grounding in how it works, please follow the several links posted way back in post #7 of this same thread.

A few thoughts, in the few minutes I have:

Even though the keyword Ford Truck may seem pretty specific on the face of it, it's actually extremely general.

And very general keywords are difficult to maintain at 'normal' status - and have historically proved to be so for those who have tried to use them in the past, across billions of impressions, over many years.

Why do I say 'ford truck' is general? Well if you had the broad or phrase matched keyword 'Ford Truck' your ad may could very possibly show for any or all of the below searches, which I've just typed at random here, off the top of my head:

* used ford truck
* new ford truck
* used ford truck NYC
* new ford truck NYC (or any other city in the world)
* new ford truck brasil (or any other country in the world)
* vintage ford truck
* ford truck club
* ford truck show
* ford truck fleet sales
* ford truck lease
* ford truck insurance
* ford truck colors
* ford truck repair
* ford truck body parts
* ford truck f150 transmission (or any part on any ford truck of any model or vintage)
* ford truck model
* ford truck diecast
* ford truck die cast
* ford truck 1/64 scale
* ford truck 1/43 scale
* ford truck 1/24 scale
* ford truck 1/18 scale
* ford truck repair manual
* ford truck owners manual
* ford truck book
* ford truck recalls
* ford truck repair history
* ford truck consumer reports
* cheap ford truck
* free ford truck
* donate ford truck

And on and on and on. And on.

In fact, my guess is that if you carefully looked through the 9,390,000 Google search results for 'ford truck' you'd find literally hundreds of other things that have to do with 'ford truck', but which have nothing at all to do with the aspect of 'ford truck' you advertise in your AdWords ad.

For example, if you sold new Ford truck in NYC, then your ad would show for all of the above searches, plus hundreds more. But only one type of searcher would be likely find your ad to be relevant to their search. And if they didn't find the ad relevant to their search, but clicked on it anyway just out of curiosity, then you've just spent money to bring an unqualifed customer to your site.

Is it possible that "someone" has the rights to that keyword and you simply won't let anyone else use it?Nope. I can assure you that this is not a factor.

I hope that makes sense. ;)

AWR

[Chris Boggs]

thanks AWR...you should be commended for your willingness to help out. I hope you are doing this on Google time and not your's :p

I have read the links in post 7 (I had to when studying to pass the AdWords Professional certification). Isn't it the point of the geographical account settings to be able to advertise for "Ford Truck" within the dealership we work with's region? Even though they may be looking for one of the subcategories you mentioned, I can write the ad in a method to prequalify the click. We just want to be seen when people type in Ford Truck in our area, why is that wrong? What about if we used [ford truck]?

You have spent plenty of time responding to my previous questions, so I understand if you feel this is going in a circle and choose not to further reply. I just want you to know the exact feelings I and probably some other SEM's have in regards to this policy.

[AdWordsRep]

thanks AWR...you should be commended for your willingness to help out. I hope you are doing this on Google time and not your's.Thanks! I'm very lucky that I am in fact posting here on Google's time! My role here at AdWords is as a Customer Advocate - and posting on Forums such as this one is a great way to stay (deeply) aware of what our advertisers need and want.

Isn't it the point of the geographical account settings to be able to advertise for "Ford Truck" within the dealership we work with's region?Yes, that is certainly true. But even still, very general keywords are a problem because they get a lot of impressions and very few clicks. What this means in real-world terms is that a lot of users see ads which are not targeted to what they are looking for. And don't click. This amounts to a bad user experience in our view. And it is to no one's advantage for our users to have a bad experience.

From the advertiser's perspective, repeated bad user experiences mean that users won't trust the ads, and won't click on them. This means less business for you over time.

Even though they may be looking for one of the subcategories you mentioned, I can write the ad in a method to prequalify the click.Also true. This gives you what you want, but it still creates a bad experience for our users. This actually matters to us. :)

For example, if someone searchs for 'diecast ford truck' and sees your nicely written ad looking to pre-qualify clicks from new truck buyers, they've just seen an ad that was totally irrelevant to their search. This is not good. ;)

We just want to be seen when people type in Ford Truck in our area, why is that wrong?Fully understood, believe me. It's "bad", though, because is creates a poor experience for a lot of our users, which makes them not trust AdWords, which makes them not click, which makes both you and Google less successful. :)

What about if we used [ford truck]? You'd get a better CTR, and maybe the keyword would stay running. This is because only people who searched on the exact phrase 'Ford truck' would see your ad.

Still, you wouldn't get the pre-qualified user that you'd likely get if you used a keyword which was more specific to what you actually offered.

With all that said, though, you're entirely welcome to use any keyword that meets the minimum CTR standard. (And it is not a high mark, BTW, being about 25% of the average CTR.)

I hope this makes sense. If not, I'll keep at it, since its a key topic.

Bottom line, my 7000 hours with AdWords tells me the key to success when you are selling something on AdWords is to be as targeted as you can possibly be, every step of the way. Advertising in a general way usually delivers moderate results at best, IMO.

AWR

[AdWordsRep]

PS to previous post - I'm a little slow sometimes, and just noticed this:

It's a Boy! Born 4/26/05 Congratulations! :D

AWR

[Chris Boggs]

thnaks again AWR...I'll keep at it. Thanks also for the congrats on the boy :)

[Sapphire]

AWR, thank you for taking the time to respond in such detail.

I'm still not clear on something in my own campaign:

Why am I allowed the keyphrase "corporate gift baskets" but not the phrase "corporate gift basket"? Every time I attempt to add the latter, it's put on hold (and if I leave it there for a day, it's disabled and my account slowed).

I use the "phrase match" format for my keyphrases.

[AdWordsRep]

AWR, thank you for taking the time to respond in such detail. My pleasure.

I'm still not clear on something in my own campaign:

Why am I allowed the keyphrase "corporate gift baskets" but not the phrase "corporate gift basket"? Every time I attempt to add the latter, it's put on hold (and if I leave it there for a day, it's disabled and my account slowed).

I use the "phrase match" format for my keyphrases.It really boils down to statistics, in that one has historically worked better than the other - for who knows what reasons. In this case, I think it may be a matter of how the keywords 'sound' to the user - and I think that users just naturally search for gift baskets.

A classic example of this is that very few people search for 'tire'. Just about everyone searches for 'tires' instead, because it just sounds 'right'. Even if they really need just one.

Hope that helps.

AWR

[Randolph]

one method to work around this problem:

instead of using "ford truck"...try using "truck ford"

the system sees that (I believe) as a "different" keyword (this was suggested by my rep)...and it will at least get a fair shake.

hope this helps out some. We've done it for a few of our terms that were disabled, and it's worked pretty well (thanks to some new ad copy that actually drove decent CTR)

[Randolph]

one thing to make sure of if you use the above method (which does work).

if you use the {keyword} tool for the term you add, make sure you replace it with a normal sounding headline.

no need for your ad to say "Truck Ford", which will probably get you poor CTR and land you back in the same boat.

[Sapphire]

AWR, thank you again. I think you've explained it as well as you possibly can, short of showing us all the reams of data Google has collected and teaching us how to read them. :p I get what Google is trying to do, and I appreciate it, even if the results seem to defy common sense in some cases. {shrug}

Randolph, that's a good idea - very good. I can make a separate ad that does not use the {keyword} tag just for that keyphrase, and see how it goes.

It's odd, though... given that it doesn't matter what order you put your keyphrase words in when you search, you'd think any keyphrase involving the same words would be blocked, because it brings up the same search. Right? Or am I missing something? :)

[Randolph]

that was my initial impression too....but, I guess the system that evaluates keyword CTR is different from the algo that matches up search terms with keyword bids.

I'll keep you posted on how mine is working out. As of right now, things look good.

Hopefully, our good buddy AWR won't mention this to anyone who would want to close up this little loophole :D

[AussieWebmaster]

Actually Overture does have a "click index" which is basically a minimum CTR, and if your keyword falls below that for a period of time, it will get disabled (deleted, really). This has happened to us for 2-3 keywords in their network. However, only one of them is for a top-selling product - unlike Google, where most of our best keywords on our top sellers have been disabled time and again.

Melissa
They only disable terms with a lot of advertisers... there was a time when we were the only person and they let them stay in... then when a bunch of people came into the space... we got dropped and had to resubmit with new creatives.

[AdWordsRep]

Hopefully, our good buddy AWR won't mention this to anyone who would want to close up this little loopholeMention what, Randolph? :)

AWR

[tonywright]

Inspired partly by this thread, one of our PPC specialists posted this entry in our Zunch Blog. I think she's right on. I'd love to hear feedback.

http://zen-sem.blogspot.com/2005/05/not-so-smart.html

[Mel66]

Hear Hear! Thanks for the link, Tony (and thanks to Laura, the blog post's author). I agree with every single word. A great example of why the keyword evaluation system is flawed, flawed, flawed.

Melissa

[seobook]

leave feedback, they have a new site.
http://www.adwords.blogspot.com

[AdWordsRep]

Hi all,

I'll make sure that the right folks hear the feedback from the last few posts (and the rest has already been passed on).

And yes, Googlers have already read the blog post. Like me, for instance. ;)

leave feedback, they have a new site.
http://www.adwords.blogspot.com I'm delighted that you've noticed the new Inside AdWords blog, seobook - but I'd like to make one note. The "send us an email" link is really intended for feedback about the Inside AdWords blog in particular, and not the AdWords program itself.

Feedback about AdWords in general would much more appropriately be sent to the adwords-support email address, which is the same one you send to when you use the 'Contact Us' link from within an account.

When you send feedback (as opposed to a question), to that address it's sent to the support team to a read-only 'queue' that I monitor multiple times daily. This is one of many places that I monitor in order to compile feedback for a weekly 'Advertiser Feedback Report' that gets sent to a ton of subscribed Googlers.

Bottom line, your feedback is heard by the right people, weekly, if not sooner.

AWR

[seobook]

The "send us an email" link is really intended for feedback about the Inside AdWords blog in particular, and not the AdWords program itself.
while your feedback says ? about the blog near it, so long as people are unhappy with the feedback they have been getting and are making posts like this
http://zen-sem.blogspot.com/2005/05/not-so-smart.html
it would probably be a good idea to leave a
https://adwords.google.com/support/bin/request.py
right next to the general leave us feedback part with something like:

Got a question or comment about AdWords? Search for help or ask questions.

you have one near the top, but people may not know that. also it is kinda confusing to have an official channel that does not easily allow feedback about the product it represents.

[AussieWebmaster]

I hope the blog boys over at Google get there act together as the first three posts were pretty lame.
Come on... a tip about using keywords in your ads so they are bolded....

Guess my 12 year-old would find that handy... no wait she knew that too....

[AdWordsRep]

I hope the blog boys over at Google get there act together as the first three posts were pretty lame.
Come on... a tip about using keywords in your ads so they are bolded....

Guess my 12 year-old would find that handy... no wait she knew that too.... Thanks for the feedback on the blog seobook and AussieWebmaster. I'll certainly pass it on to the Inside AdWords team.

I think we all have the tendency to think that everyone is just like us. My version of this is that I tend to think of everyone as being my own age, even if they're 15 years younger or older. In reality, though, that turns out to not be the case.

AussieWebmaster, I think we'd agree that most folks on this Forum are quite sophisticated, and some, like you, are especially expert.

However not all advertisers are at this level, and the Inside AdWords blog is intended for advertisers at all levels, including those who have been with AdWords for a matter of hours, and who may not even know what a URL is. (And as a support person, I've defined what a URL is, and advised advertisers on how to bold their ad copy literally hundreds of times over the past three years, along with countless other similar - and extremely basic - questions.)

So, I guess I'd advise skimming over the stuff you already know, while recognizing that there is absolutely an audience for whom very basic information will be both news, and quite useful. ;)

And yes, of course the intent is to have posts that will be of value to those who are already power users.

All in good time.

Honestly, I think the first three days may not be enough time to judge the value of a blog that is intended to be of value to all advertisers over the long term.


AWR

[AdWordsRep]

Uh oh.

I just realized that I hadn't mentioned something; I'll be away from my desk (and Internet connections!) from now till Tuesday.

So I'll be missing things for a few days, but back to posting on Tuesday.

Till then...

AWR

[AussieWebmaster]

Thanks for the feedback on the blog seobook and AussieWebmaster. I'll certainly pass it on to the Inside AdWords team.

I think we all have the tendency to think that everyone is just like us. My version of this is that I tend to think of everyone as being my own age, even if they're 15 years younger or older. In reality, though, that turns out to not be the case.

AussieWebmaster, I think we'd agree that most folks on this Forum are quite sophisticated, and some, like you, are especially expert.

However not all advertisers are at this level, and the Inside AdWords blog is intended for advertisers at all levels, including those who have been with AdWords for a matter of hours, and who may not even know what a URL is. (And as a support person, I've defined what a URL is, and advised advertisers on how to bold their ad copy literally hundreds of times over the past three years, along with countless other similar - and extremely basic - questions.)

So, I guess I'd advise skimming over the stuff you already know, while recognizing that there is absolutely an audience for whom very basic information will be both news, and quite useful. ;)

And yes, of course the intent is to have posts that will be of value to those who are already power users.

All in good time.

Honestly, I think the first three days may not be enough time to judge the value of a blog that is intended to be of value to all advertisers over the long term.


AWR
I agree there is a need for introductory level assistance for novice users of AdWords, etc. Though the blog should have levels at least.