Google Buys Urchin

[rustybrick]

I am shocked, I had no idea, not that I would know, but I do speak with the folks at Urchin every now and then. I have been using Urchin since they were in beta. Today I found out via SearchBlog (http://battellemedia.com/archives/001360.php) that Google Acquires Urchin (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&ncid=1212&e=1&u=/ap/20050329/ap_on_hi_te/google_urchin&sid=95573501).

One of the Urchin folks have confirmed it to be true to me. In addition, John Battelle heard it might have gone for $30 million.

The best news, is that the players at Urchin will stick around.

[Elisabeth]

Whoa. Crazy news:)

way to go Urchin crew!

[Nacho]

This is one of the best news I've heard so far this year. I'm so happy for the folks at Urchin. No doubt, they have the best analytics software.... IMO, of course.

Here is Urchin's offical release: http://www.urchin.com/company/news/03282005.html

Here is Google's official release: http://www.google.com/intl/en/press/pressrel/urchin.html

Cheers!!

[Scoreboard]

Awesome! Congratulations to the Urchin crew. I wonder if this will be an up-charge to Adwords users.

[Andy AtkinsKruger]

Congratulations, of course, to the Urchin team - they have done well - and it is a good product.

However, I think Urchin users have to ask themselves the question "Do we want our most important advertising supplier to know how well we do, on what and what money we make?"

I'd compare this to buying a TV ad - it would be like the TV company preparing the accounts for a customer who's ad slots they were just about to negotiate a follow-on price for!

How much control of the market does Google want - and how much is the industry prepared to give?

[Adam C]

I think Urchin users have to ask themselves the question "Do we want our most important advertising supplier to know how well we do, on what and what money we make?"

I'd compare this to buying a TV ad - it would be like the TV company preparing the accounts for a customer who's ad slots they were just about to negotiate a follow-on price for!

How much control of the market does Google want - and how much is the industry prepared to give?

Good point. We use Urchin to tell us how much traffic Google, Overture, etc. send us and certainly trust it a lot more than the stats in the SE's own interfaces. Will be interesting to compare 2 different Google measures of the same traffic.

[AussieWebmaster]

Good point. We used Urchin to tell us how much traffic Google, Overture, etc. send us and certainly trust it a lot more than the stats in the SE's own interfaces. Will be interesting to compare 2 different Google measures of the same traffic.
And there in lies the rub.... a third-party solid company is grabbed by the search conglomerate.... they lose their independence and now the numbers have to be doubted a little... someone who uses Urchin should start keeping tracking of the descrepancies... if what used to be a 10-15% difference starts getting closer and closer to a match - we should all say 'yippee' Google is using Urchin to fix the problems...

LOL... if you believe that just go and buy that ticket to Stepford.

[andrewgoodman]

I tend to agree the threats outweigh the benefits...

But one major benefit to those who buy analytics services may be disrupting the pricing models in the analytics biz. Higher-end analytics are still overpriced by like 400%. Not for long, now that Google and their monster computing power is entering the space. If I were a betting man, I'd bet against Hitbox and Webtrends et al.

[AussieWebmaster]

I tend to agree the threats outweigh the benefits...

But one major benefit to those who buy analytics services may be disrupting the pricing models in the analytics biz. Higher-end analytics are still overpriced by like 400%. Not for long, now that Google and their monster computing power is entering the space. If I were a betting man, I'd bet against Hitbox and Webtrends et al.
I use WebSideStory (aka HitBox) and KeywordMax... I think Google is going to be hard pressed to provide that ongoing customer support that the others do.... unless the Urchin people become the teach and support ROI optimization at the next level... start inputting info about page content etc.

[FeldBum]

Does it seem like Google is ramping up to squeeze out SEMs and agencies for small to mid-size companies.

You can already use the conversion tracking pixel with other campaigns--and now they might offer real web analytics.

What next? Will they acquire a SEM or an agency, or revamp Adwords to offer automated bidding?

[rustybrick]

Well Ask and Lycos both have SEM divisions of some kind.

[rustybrick]

Just got off the phone with one of the great people at Urchin. They are so guddy about this. Of course this is not done yet, but should be by the end of April.

Please express all your concerns here and I will get them to address it directly, or through me.

[FeldBum]

Well Ask and Lycos both have SEM divisions of some kind.
That's true, but even Lycos' tool, which works with other engines, only lets you set max bids and payment options. Overture's tool is nice too, but also has limitations.

This looks like Google is going after the big boys. Trying to become a one-stop advertising solution, even for non-search markets

[rustybrick]

This looks like Google is going after the big boys. Trying to become a one-stop advertising solution, even for non-search markets
I agree. Urchin has some nice relationships with ISPs. Click a button and presto, AdWords account hooked into Urchin and into your Web site. Real time ROI without complicated APIs or flat files.

Do we need Did-it for its tools anymore? Of course there are other programs; overture and soon to come msn.

Did-it is more about the services side anyway. But what about your competitors?

[FeldBum]

Did-it is more about the services side anyway. But what about your competitors?

A lot of tool-heavy SEM firms are either spending their time now worrying about this announcement or rethinking strategy. If Google does get serious about agency-style tools, SEMs targeting small players are going to get hurt. Already I meet a lot of people at the conferences who are using Overture's tool over any SEM's.

[Nacho]

Does anyone know if Urchin is holding any patents that Google needed to get their hands on?

[bragadocchio]

Hi Nacho,

I don't know if there was a "need," But there is a patent:

System and method for monitoring and analyzing internet traffic (http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=/netahtml/search-adv.htm&r=1&p=1&f=G&l=50&d=ptxt&S1=urchin.ASNM.&OS=an/urchin&RS=AN/urchin) (earlier version here (http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=/netahtml/search-adv.htm&r=2&p=1&f=G&l=50&d=ptxt&S1=urchin.ASNM.&OS=an/urchin&RS=AN/urchin))

And here's one that has been assigned to them, but is still in the application stage:

System and method for tracking unique visitors to a website (http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-adv.html&r=1&p=1&f=G&l=50&d=PG01&S1=urchin.AS.&OS=an/urchin&RS=AN/urchin)

[5starAffiliatePrograms]

Yes, very interesting news indeed. I have been reading all the mixed reviews on some of the forums and blogging about some of the forum threads on my blog this morning. So interesting to read the different view points and conspiracy theories.

[Nacho]

I don't know if there was a "need," But there is a patent:

System and method for monitoring and analyzing internet traffic (http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=/netahtml/search-adv.htm&r=1&p=1&f=G&l=50&d=ptxt&S1=urchin.ASNM.&OS=an/urchin&RS=AN/urchin) (earlier version here (http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=/netahtml/search-adv.htm&r=2&p=1&f=G&l=50&d=ptxt&S1=urchin.ASNM.&OS=an/urchin&RS=AN/urchin))

And here's one that has been assigned to them, but is still in the application stage:

System and method for tracking unique visitors to a website (http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-adv.html&r=1&p=1&f=G&l=50&d=PG01&S1=urchin.AS.&OS=an/urchin&RS=AN/urchin)
Very interesting! I'm sure Google has a big list of reasons to want to buy Urchin, but I wonder how much these patent's weigh in the sale?

Anyone who understands patent law want to attempt to identify Urchin's patent uniqueness that Google may be going after?

[bragadocchio]

That's a tall order, Nacho.

Patent law by itself is complex enough.

The difficulty in explaining the "uniqueness" of the subject matter of the patent that Urchin holds comes in having an idea of all of the potentially similar business methods and algorithms that exist, and being able to explain how Urchin's patent is different. ;)

Patent law and admiralty law are historically and traditionally the only two fields of legal practice where an lawyer can claim a specialization under most State's Rules of Professional Conduct. And for a good reason. To practice those types of laws, and to do it well, you need to be a specialist.

I can give you a few points of patent law in a nutshell, but I don't think that I can provide a detailed analysis of the uniqueness of Urchin's patent.

First of all, the granting of a patent is an exclusionary right. It doesn't grant a right to manufacture a product, or use a particular method. Rather, the granting of a patent allows the patent holder “the right to exclude others from making, using, offering for sale, or selling” the subject matter of the patent within the US, or importing that invention into the US, for a limited period of time.

There are typically three things that will be looked at in the decision to grant a patent -- an invention must be new, useful, and non-obvious.

The United States Patent and Trademark Office gives an excellent general overview of patent law: General Information Concerning Patents (http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/pac/doc/general/index.html)

The section on that page that is titled What Can Be Patented (http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/pac/doc/general/index.html#whatpat) describes what is meant by "new" and "useful."

The following section, Novelty And Non-Obviousness, Conditions For Obtaining A Patent (http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/pac/doc/general/index.html#novelty) goes into a little detail on what is meant by "non-obvious."

Here's a small, and not complete, snippet from that section:

The subject matter sought to be patented must be sufficiently different from what has been used or described before that it may be said to be nonobvious to a person having ordinary skill in the area of technology related to the invention. For example, the substitution of one color for another, or changes in size, are ordinarily not patentable.

By the use of your word "unique," we're possibly looking at whether the subject matter of the patent was nonobvious at the time the patent was applied for.

To tell that, it's probably necessary to survey similar patents, and descriptions of processes in printed materials or public uses of a technology that could be related.

That's just a simplified view of patent law and how it might apply, and I am definitely not a patent law specialist, or even a practicing attorney.

But, if you want to find out what is unique about that patent, you'll probably want to take a close look at what else was out there to see if the right to enforce the patent was what attracted Google to make this purchase.

Of course, the purchase may have simply been made as a way of quickly employing a number of people with an understanding and skills in working with the technology that Urchin employees possess. Or because someone at Google felt that the acquisition made sense because the technology is a good fit with present or future plans of the Search Engine.

[Nacho]

Makes perfect sense, thank you!

[bragadocchio]

You're quite welcome.

I may be looking at some of those other patents when I can find a little free time. It would be interesting to see what other similar technology was commonly known about when this patent was applied for.

I'll try to add anything here that I can dig up, but it might be a few days until I can get some downtime.

[Chris Boggs]

Andy Beal raises an interesting question in his search engine news blog (http://www.searchenginelowdown.com/).

I'll stick my neck out and say that we'll see some type of performance model by the end of the year.

I disagree, feeling that this could not work for all industries. Any other thoughts?

[rustybrick]

He is sticking out his neck. :)

[projectphp]

I'll stick my neck out and say that we'll see some type of performance model by the end of the year.
That makes zero sense for AdWords (IMHO), but it would be killer for AdSense. Google could almost instantly be the worlds largest Affiliate programme in the world. They could even replace the NPO adverts with Affiliate stuff.

Content targetted Affiliate programme sounds like an extremely good idea to me...

[seobook]

Content targetted Affiliate programme sounds like an extremely good idea to me...
but product returns and earnings reporting makes it a bit complicated

[FeldBum]

I'll stick my neck out and say that we'll see some type of performance model by the end of the year.

SNAP is already doing that.

I think Google would stay far away from a model like that. Google is so concentrated on relevancy, and a CPA model promotes bidding on non-relevant terms, as you only have to pay for conversions, not clicks.
And how would it work Google's current Ad Rank (CTR*CPC) model? Right now SNAP drops you from the CPA model if your conversion rate is too low, but nothing happens if your CTR is too low.
CPA also promotes pre-qualification in adwords, which don't work so well now. I.E. you could bid on the term "windows" and sell storm-proofing how-to guides to the .0001% that was actually looking for that.

[Nacho]

Gary just bloged (http://blog.searchenginewatch.com/blog/050503-190354):
This afternoon the Googleplex announced that a monthly subscription to Urchin on Demand, a web analytics service, has been reduced by 60% to $199 per month.

[KevinSource]

Thats what I was waiting for :)

Can anyone say whether Urchin on Demand is that much better, or detailed than the basic Urchin 5.0 license.

[Chris Boggs]

We primarily use Urchin 4 and 5 for our clients. I have had a great experience with this product, since it helps in the reporting of both SEO and PPC efforts. For the majority of our clients, in the 1 to 5 million annual sales category, urchin 5 is sufficient. We can use the statistics to streamline our marketing efforts for the clients, primarily by analyzing the performance of landing pages and the behavior of visitors landing on different landing pages. This data helps us to create better landing pages and generate more leads/sales for our clients, without a doubt.

Having tried the V6 On Demand product only in demo, I can not comment too much about it. Our clients have been unwilling to pay the $500/month associated with the product, but I jumped for joy when I found out it dropped to $199. Hopefully I can give a better review within a couple of months. However, I must say that from the demo, anyone that spends over 10k/month in PPC can definitely benefit from the added features, especially when it comes to the ability to detect click-fraud. Since effective marketing requires as much research as possible, On Demand competes at a discount price with the big boys such as Omniture, from what I have seen.

If there was a question about Urchin On Demand, it was the price tag; but now it's just a matter of budget, in my opinion. Both products are outstanding.

[AussieWebmaster]

I agree that it is a solid product... though I have only played with it, I see that it does all the nitty gritty things you really need an analytic tool to do.

The problem I have is who is hosting the solution? Now that Google owns it the data you generate is hosted by them and though they may say they will not use your specific data for anything.... thta does allow them to use everyone's data on an aggregate level and that includes info from other search engines and organic search results.

[cryptblade]

I have a question about this. Now that Google owns Urchin - with access to all the site stats, will they be using site stats as a factor for ranking?

We know that Google uses WhoIs data... now what about site stats data?

[Chris Boggs]

I have a question about this. Now that Google owns Urchin - with access to all the site stats, will they be using site stats as a factor for ranking?

We know that Google uses WhoIs data... now what about site stats data?

only if they manage to sell Urchin to every site in existence...

[seobook]

only if they manage to sell Urchin to every site in existence...
I think they could gather useful marketing and relevancy information from a limited subset of the web. some algorithms (like their TrustRank algorithm) are based on placing additional weighting on known trusted sites.