URL questions for SEO

[lobofenris]

Hello. Longtime lurker, first time poster. Been reading SE Watch stuff for years. Anyway, I'm about to launch a new site, and had a couple of questions connected to the URL and SEO.

1) Does it matter if the site is a .com or .net?

2) Is there a positive weight given to having a keyword in your URL? For instance, if I was targeting 'book store' as one of my top keywords, is there value to being 'www.bookstore.com' versus 'www.bs.com' ?

3) Do I need to hyphenate or dash URL extensions for keyword optimization? For instance, is it better to be 'www.xyz.com/ernesthemingtway' or www.xyz.com/ernest-hemingway' for a page on Ernest Hemingway? Underscore or hyphen?

Thanks so much for your help in advance, I REALLY appreciate it!

Lobofenris

[Michael Martinez]

Hello. Longtime lurker, first time poster. Been reading SE Watch stuff for years. Anyway, I'm about to launch a new site, and had a couple of questions connected to the URL and SEO.

1) Does it matter if the site is a .com or .net?

Not from a search engine stand-point, although there is a theory that .gov or .edu (both unavailable to the general public) might get some sort of credibility boost.

On the other hand, people generally assume .COM. My first (and still primary) domain is a .ORG. I don't know how many times people have used the name with .COM (and I cannot get the .COM version).

2) Is there a positive weight given to having a keyword in your URL? For instance, if I was targeting 'book store' as one of my top keywords, is there value to being 'www.bookstore.com' versus 'www.bs.com' ?

It will help with a directory listing, where queries are run against the directory listings. It may help with search engine listings (opinions are divided). I generally include keywords in the page URLs because they are at least highlighted in search results (on some engines).

3) Do I need to hyphenate or dash URL extensions for keyword optimization? For instance, is it better to be 'www.xyz.com/ernesthemingtway' or www.xyz.com/ernest-hemingway' for a page on Ernest Hemingway? Underscore or hyphen?

GoogleGuy has told people over the years to go with hyphens. I now use hyphens fairly consistently.

No complaints.

[Marcia]

I don't believe I'll ever again, at least not in the forseeable future, take a domain name with the entire keyword phrase in it. The logic is that while it helps with directory listings that have the site name as the title, it can run over the top with too high a percentage of the keyword phrase used in inbound anchor text. One word out of the phrase is fine - or maybe one word each extracted from two distinct phrases that would be independently used.

Example: say you have

mens goodies
womens goodies
childrens goodies

(and the word version without the apostrophe has been seen by some to deliver more traffic than the version with) - then goodiesgalore.com is a great name. People like alliteration - it's catchy and makes the site name easy to remember.

One keyword word out of a phrase (and it can be important to decide which one) in the site's URL is definitely a plus, and can easily be worked with - but keep in mind that what I'm saying is from a very conservative, low-key viewpoint.

A brandable domain name is a very_good thing, and most everyone types in the .com by default so it does pay to go with it. If a site ends up with any visibility, someone would be sure to grab the .com up to exploit type-in traffic, so it might as well be you having it.

[lobofenris]

Thanks so much for the input. I have a couple of specific followup questions if I could bother the fine forum folks (how's that for alliteration!) for more thoughts:

For instance, if my primary keyword phrase target is 'california book store', which URL would you vote for?
1) www.calbooks.com
2) www.californiabooks.net
Unfortunately www.californiabooks.com is not available in this scenario. I understand the value of the .com over the .net (not for SEO, but for user recall), but the www.californiabooks.net has two of the three words of my target keyword phrase, while www.calbooks.com has only one. Would that be much of a difference, or something very minor within the scheme of things? I will have the word 'california' frequently in the HTML text describing things, so that might make up for lacking it in the URL. Also, although by this example you would think that I am targeting 'california books' as much as 'california book store', I am not, so the full phrase is what's important (here is where the 'example' that I'm using of the california book store falls short of what I'm really doing).

Using the URLs above, even though my target keyword phrase uses 'book' singular, is it OK to have it plural 'books' within www.calbooks.com? I assume that will get picked up, but I'm not certain.

Thanks so much for the points on hyphenating the URL extensions like www.calbooks.com/mystery-books.

Look forward to getting more input! You guys are very helpful :D

Lobofenris

[Marcia]

First off, for anything like that you should check for trademark on the name of the domain before taking it.

U.S. Patent Office (http://www.uspto.gov)

Second lesson, around SEO or internet marketing (actually should be first) - if you're thinking of taking a domain name, keep it strictly to yourself. If it's a good one, it's just liable to be grabbed up by someone else before you go off and get it - and you'll find it's not available any more.

That said, it's generally a good idea to do thorough keyword research prior to taking a domain name - unless you're already familiar and/or come up with something that's a real gem for branding.

[lobofenris]

Thanks Marcia, great advice. I've actually already done that and am comfortable with the Intellectual Property aspect of the brand and URLs I'm considering. The real business brand and URLs I've kept private...they are not the ones in the example above, although the example is similar enough that it works for discussion purposes.

So any thoughts on my questions above? Which URL (californiabooks.net or calbooks.com) you'd prefer?

Thanks.

[Kal]

What about california-books.com? Some search engines will still give you a slight boost for keywords in your domain (very slight!) but they can only distinguish individual keywords if you use hyphens. californiabooks.net will do nothing for relevancy and .net is not as well recognized as .com. If you use california-books.com, you have a keyword relevancy advantage over californiabooks.com, although the branding loss and keyword density could be an issue as Marcia said.

If you're worried about domain branding, try cal-books.com which will at least get you "books" as an associated keyword. Also if you're going to use keywords in your page names, remember to use hyphens (-) to separate keywords and not underscores (_) as hyphens are treated as a space (so allowing separate keywords to be recognized) but underscores are ignored. Also don't go overboard with keywords in a single domain or page name as ultra-hyphenated domains are thought to be penalized. One or two hyphens is plenty.

In an ideal world, you should really decide on a domain name based on what is easiest for your customer to remember, easiest to market and logical for your business, NOT on how it will be treated by search algorithms. But sometimes publicity overides logic. No doubt all those companies in the YellowPages called AAAAABiz will agree with me :)

[Scribbller]

I know a site that was placed on the first page of its primary key word just because of its URL, the owners never used any SEO techniques, I dont think they even knew SEO ( I know the owners personally) The site was a great hit just because of having all the keywords in its URL. Having keywords in the domain makes the domain very generic thus there is not much branding you can do where as a domain with no particlar keywords can be branded much better.

[phpmaven]

Unfortunately www.californiabooks.com is not available in this scenario. I understand the value of the .com over the .net (not for SEO, but for user recall), but the www.californiabooks.net has two of the three words of my target keyword phrase, while www.calbooks.com has only one.
Lobofenris

If somebody already has www.californiabooks.com then I STRONGLY recommend against getting www.californiabooks.net, you will lose a lot of traffic with people going to the .com domain. I think the same is true of www.california-books.com. As you get more and more branded, many people will type in the url without the dash and you will lose people to your competition.

Better to use something like www.calbooks.com that will be unique to your business. IMHO

[Robert_Charlton]

I don't believe I'll ever again, at least not in the forseeable future, take a domain name with the entire keyword phrase in it. The logic is that while it helps with directory listings that have the site name as the title, it can run over the top with too high a percentage of the keyword phrase used in inbound anchor text. One word out of the phrase is fine - or maybe one word each extracted from two distinct phrases that would be independently used.

Excellent point. If the system would allow me to give Marcia some more reputation points, I would for this one.

What about california-books.com? Some search engines will still give you a slight boost for keywords in your domain (very slight!) but they can only distinguish individual keywords if you use hyphens.

Conventional wisdom says this is true, but ever since Florida I've felt that, with regard to a too-high percentage of exact inbound anchor text, that the hyphenated version (california-books.tld) is even worse than the unhyphenated (whatever the tld might be), because you'll be getting the entire keyword phrase on your domain name links too.

With regard to tld, it's always best to have .com, if you can get it, not only because most users generally assume it as the default, but Internet Explorer does as well. In IE, you can type domainname in the address bar and then hit Ctrl-Enter, and IE will fill in the full url... http://www.domainname.com... and take you to that site. You're out of luck if you have .net. The search engines, though, don't care.

Which URL (californiabooks.net or calbooks.com) you'd prefer?

My feeling is that what's most important is your company name, not your domain name. That's generally the anchor text most directories and routine links will give you. So, if your domain was calbooks.com, but your company name, as consistently and prominently shown on your site, was, say, California Books Company, you would get the benefit of the anchor text you want in most inbounds, but still have the occasional anchor text variants of calbooks.com, or Cal Books.com, or whatever, enough that you won't get nailed for identical keywords.

[lobofenris]

Excellent posts. I appreciate the thoughts, they've been very useful. I think in the end I'll go with www.calbooks.com as the URL (not the real URL, but a good comparable for our discussion), and heavily brand around California Books as the company name. The points made here and the back-and-forth discussion has been invaluable. What a great forum! :D

I'll post the real company URL and brand in a couple weeks when we go live. Thanks again.

[lobofenris]

Thanks again. I've launched the site and thought to post the real URL and site here to close up this conversation. The various postings here were very helpful.

The real site focuses on small lodging properties in California (bed and breakfasts, inns, resorts, and unique hotels...basically non-chain properties). The name of the site is California Beds, and with the input of the fine folks here, I chose www.calbeds.com as the URL. Maybe with this information the examples I used above about California Books will make more sense. Thanks again for the help.

Matt
California Beds
www.calbeds.com

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