Organic SEO for a Flash Site?

[DangerKatt]

could somebody list like the *best* organic seo techniques for me?? or point me to some articles to read that would help me out... and also things i can do to help me with seo for Flash sites????? i wanna go totally with flash on my sites but i wanna be able to have good rankings on search engines... so is this possible or is it just a dream...

[David Wallace]

Two main things to focus on and that is to make sure you optimize the title tags of each page of your site so that they reflect keywords related to the topic of the page and secondly to make sure those keywords are accurately represented in the html copy of each page.

As far as Flash, you can use Flash inserts but if your site is a complete Flash movie for example than your best be is to provide an html version as well.

[Robert_Charlton]

i wanna go totally with flash on my sites but i wanna be able to have good rankings on search engines... so is this possible or is it just a dream...

Going totally with Flash is really shooting yourself in the foot, if even that low on your anatomy. ;)

Search engines index visible html text. Even when there might be words within the Flash content, Flash by its nature tends to be non-verbal, so you're probably starting with a conceptual conundrum for the engines. Even if the engines could "read" Flash, they're simply not smart enough to interpret your intent. The engines also frown on hidden text.

If you're going all Flash, you're also throwing away the basic unit of optimization, which is the page. Breaking your content into pages allows you to focus it around various search terms and to target a variety of phrases.

I won't get into whether the engines currently read and interpret the Flash meta data sufficiently well for you to use that to rank on anything competitive, except to say that none of the engines these days trusts meta data much, because it's so easily manipulated.

Since spiders don't execute code, they might appear to a Flash sniffing script as if they're a browser that doesn't have Flash; and, if you set things up properly, it is possible to have the engines see your default html page instead of your Flash content.

I would resist the temptation to use this page to misrepresent your site to the engines. Again, one page without an entire html site architecture won't allow you to optimize for much in any event.

I'd go with David Wallace's suggestion to build an html version of the site... and, for linking purposes, I'd make the html site the default of what the engines and user sees. My own preference as a user, SEO aside, would also be to have the Flash optional.

[jen]

Robert_Charlton wrote: if you set things up properly, it is possible to have the engines see your default html page instead of your Flash content.

Any chance of explaining how to do this in a bit more detail please?

[David Wallace]

Robert_Charlton wrote:
Any chance of explaining how to do this in a bit more detail please?
Most often a JavaScript "Flash Plug-in Sniffer" can be used. It checks to see if your browser supports Flash and if it does, redirects you to the Flash site or page. Seeing that search engines do not recognize or respond to JavaScript, they will land on that initial page without being redirected to a Flash site.

[Robert_Charlton]

Most often a JavaScript "Flash Plug-in Sniffer" can be used. It checks to see if your browser supports Flash and if it does, redirects you to the Flash site or page. Seeing that search engines do not recognize or respond to JavaScript, they will land on that initial page without being redirected to a Flash site.

It's amazing how often Flash sites are set up so that all an engine sees is a blank page... and that visitors with js or Active-X disabled get the same blank nothing. Always set up your defaults so that if all scripting fails, the visitor and the search engine get something useful.

Again, though, one page is not the same as a fully optimized html site... but you'll at least get the company name out of it.

[DangerKatt]

i am new to this... what would a fully optimized sight entitle? ( like is there a check list of things to do to any given sight?)

[cryptblade]

i am new to this... what would a fully optimized sight entitle? ( like is there a check list of things to do to any given sight?)

Spend some time.. hours, days, weeks, if you have to - on this forum, webproworld.com and even highrankings.com [the forums].

There are lots of articles here and in those sites, lots of experience, opinions, etc. The basic information you want is available in the articles here as well.

But I recommend spending time reading it all because you want to build up discernment over what is right or wrong in what you read.

[demetzell]

Is hard but not impossible.
You may find some information on my site http://artemintiendo.blogspot.com, but sorry it is in spanish.
Lets make a little summary:
1.- don´t make the whole site in one swf, if you make a microsite for each topic you will find easy to work with different url and titles.
2.- Use footer with links to each one of this microsites. ( out of the flash, on the html whre is pasted)
3.- copy the text of each frame and paste it on a pdf. It will work as a trust link for each microsite.
4.- Embed and noscrip are often used for spam but may be used also for a good site.
5.- Close to cloacking is there other way. It works as a javascript for recognice if user/robot has flash instaled (robots wont) and show them an html instead.
6.- As you wont have any content (swf are working as an image) you should take care about not making linkk building for different keywords from those you have on your titles and url

[BuckfastMonk]

Why are you going with flash? What possible reason should you be using flash on your website? yes yes, its soo cool :mad:

[demetzell]

cocacola may use flash
beer company may use flash
not the ones that sell products, but the ones that sell image may

[beu]

5.- Close to cloacking is there other way. It works as a javascript for recognice if user/robot has flash instaled (robots wont) and show them an html instead.
6.- As you wont have any content (swf are working as an image) you should take care about not making linkk building for different keywords from those you have on your titles and url

This is called SWFObject and it is a dangerous practice. You should use sIFR or create an html version disallowing the Flash.

I would suggest the later option.

[onlineseo]

swf files also tend to make pages load slowly and thus google robot won't give that page much importance in my view.

[beu]

swf files also tend to make pages load slowly and thus google robot won't give that page much importance in my view.

Good point onlineseo, the problem is that with SWFObject engine never sees the swf file but instead HTML with text in a DIV "hidden" behind the Flash object.

[onlineseo]

Is is best to provide both FLASH version and STATIC html versions of your website.

Users should be able to select flash or html.

It would be good for search engines as well since Yahoo is blind to flash. However google can easily crawl through a flash file

[beu]

Is is best to provide both FLASH version and STATIC html versions of your website.

Users should be able to select flash or html.

It would be good for search engines as well since Yahoo is blind to flash. However google can easily crawl through a flash file

Everyone in this thread is on the right track but it's a few years old. Since this thread was originally posted Google has provided more tips at their blog via "Mr. Flash" himself, aka Googler Mark Berghausen. His post "Best uses of Flash" is pretty much the standard.

Here are the portions I think might interest you:

"1. Try to use Flash only where it is needed. Many rich media sites such as Google's YouTube use Flash for rich media but rely on HTML for content and navigation. You can too, by limiting Flash to on-page accents and rich media, not content and navigation. In addition to making your site Googlebot-friendly, this makes you site accessible to a larger audience, including, for example, blind people using screen readers, users of old or non-standard browsers, and those on limited low-bandwidth connections such as on a cell phone or PDA. As a bonus, your visitors can use bookmarks effectively, and can email links to your pages to their friends...."

"3. Non-Flash Versions: A common way that we see Flash used is as a front page "splash screen" where the root URL of a website has a Flash intro that links to HTML content deeper into the site. In this case, make sure there is a regular HTML link on that front page to a non-Flash page where a user can navigate throughout your site without the need for Flash."

- http://googlewebmastercentral.blogspot.com/2007/07/best-uses-of-flash.html

[ericajoieake]

My recommended Flash SEO method uses a DIV with search-engine-accessible, primary content, and a Javascript function called SWFObject() to detect when browsers are capable of viewing Flash. When an appropriate version of Flash player is present, the Javascript manipulates the page's document object model (DOM) to replace the primary content with the Flash movie. Most search engine spiders can't handle Flash, so they will elect to view the primary content. The primary content may contain links, headings, styled text, images—anything we can add to an ordinary HTML page. With SEO copyediting and coding skills applied to the primary content, Flash becomes a non-issue.

[jasonmun]

My recommended Flash SEO method uses a DIV with search-engine-accessible, primary content, and a Javascript function called SWFObject() to detect when browsers are capable of viewing Flash. When an appropriate version of Flash player is present, the Javascript manipulates the page's document object model (DOM) to replace the primary content with the Flash movie. Most search engine spiders can't handle Flash, so they will elect to view the primary content. The primary content may contain links, headings, styled text, images—anything we can add to an ordinary HTML page. With SEO copyediting and coding skills applied to the primary content, Flash becomes a non-issue.

Do you have any resources that can help explain this further? Some links or guidelines would be really useful. I am in the middle of implementing this and cannot find a workable solution for flash detection.

Cheers..

[irdom]

Is is best to provide both FLASH version and STATIC html versions of your website.

Users should be able to select flash or html.

It would be good for search engines as well since Yahoo is blind to flash. However google can easily crawl through a flash file

good idea thanks:)

[tharmon]

Is it just me, or do any of you remember reading an article saying that Google was going to start using an algorithm that detected flash, and give a better ranking because it sees flash as better content?
I can't seem to find it anywhere, but I remember it mentioning something about coca-cola.com.
This link could be helpful though http://www.seobook.com/archives/001457.shtml

[derick2]

All the answers above are true, and I actually agree with them.

[beu]

My recommended Flash SEO method uses a DIV with search-engine-accessible, primary content, and a Javascript function called SWFObject() to detect when browsers are capable of viewing Flash.
SWFObject has been called dangerous and isn't recommended by Google. At the same time, Google doesn't say not to use SWFObject. In other words use at your own risk. Honestly, I wouldn't recommend using SWFObject with SEO unless you know EXACTLY what you are doing because there is a real risk of being detected as cloaking which is against Google's terms and conditions and can result in your site being banned.

Now that Google can read Flash it seems kind of silly to use SWFObject because Googlebot can't execute the JavaScript used by SWFObject.

The Google update on Flash is here:
http://googlewebmastercentral.blogspot.com/2008/06/improved-flash-indexing.html

That said there are still a number of issues related to Google Universal that are important to consider: Googlebot can't extract images, video and/or audio from Flash. Googlebot can't associate text content pulled from an external xml file with said contents destination URL. Googlebot ignores #anchors used to fast forward the play-head in some Flash architectures. Creating an all Flash site at one URL is no different than creating a one page site in Googlebots eyes and in some ways even worse.

The new Flash algorithm is no end all be all for the SEO/Flash issue but it can help sites acquire visibility in ways not available previously. To take advantage of these, hire a bona-fide and verified expert!