Example Of A Sandboxed Site?

[fathom]

Moderator Note: This thread split from Sandboxing? (http://forums.searchenginewatch.com/showthread.php?t=2243)

Test Case:

http://www.allseasongift.com will be launched next week.

Brand new eComm site, never before owned domain, new host, and IP in Gift Basket industry.

So based on 'sandbox' how long to rank?

[dazzlindonna]

Test Case:

http://www.allseasongift.com will be launched next week.

Brand new eComm site, never before owned domain, new host, and IP in Gift Basket industry.

So based on 'sandbox' how long to rank?



Any news to report on this test case, Fathom?

[randfish]

The site is #1 allinanchor @ Google, #3 @ Yahoo!, #1 @ MSN Beta but not in the top 1000 search results at Google...

This is for allseasongift.com for the keyword phrase in the title - All Season Gifts

I note that the site is #17 for the phrase in quotes at Google...

[dannysullivan]

Interesting. Worth noting that even though the site is listed in Ask Jeeves, Ask Jeeves isn't ranking it in the top five pages results either, from what I can see. So yes, seems odd with Google not getting into the first few pages of results, especially when Yahoo and MSN are doing so. But with that the case at Ask as well, it suggest that perhaps Google is being more Ask Jeeves like -- gathering up all the pages that match a particular topic, then calculating the link values to be passed around.

[Dave Hawley]

So based on 'sandbox' how long to rank?What search term should we be trying? What do you consider a "rank"?

[dannysullivan]

Dave, randfish indicated this -- coming up in the top results for:

all season gifts

The site shows in the top results for those words, no quotes, at Yahoo and MSN. It doesn't at Google or Ask Jeeves. It comes up in the second page of results at Google as a quoted search. Unless I missed it, it doesn't come up at all at Ask Jeeves as a quoted search.

Just ranking at one search engine is no guarantee that a site will rank well at all the others, of course. What it does show is that at least two other search engines seem to find the site relevant -- so we have at least some reason to think it should have a chance at Google. But a sandbox factor could be at work. Or, given that Ask Jeeves isn't listing it, it could be other things.

FYI, Jux2 is a great way to see how results at one search engine aren't necessarily the same for the others. For the all season gifts query, it reports (http://jux2.com/search.php?e=0&e2=1&e3=2&q=all+season+gifts) that after looking at Google, Yahoo and Ask Jeeves, only two results overlapping for all three, in the top ten. Oddly, it reports this site at Yahoo as number 13, when I see it as number 2, myself.

[Dave Hawley]

It's in the Google SERPS for all season gifts But does'nt seem to be when the URL is excluded.

http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&lr=&c2coff=1&as_qdr=all&q=all+season+gifts+www.allseasongift.com&btnG=Search

[fathom]

We got a little side tracked on this site so no optimization has occur as yet.

History

1. Site went live on domain: December 6.

2. Recip Links being developed by owner since December 6 and independent of website [orphaned] at this time http://www.allseasongift.com/resources/ [so submit your links to help ;)]

3. PPI started last week

4. elements and attributes will likely be done at months end.

Also 'holiday gift baskets' rankings would be seen a successful with 'gift baskets' being the ultimate.

[dstew]

Either I'm missing it, or the rank has changed at Yhaoo. I can't find it in the first few pages for the phrase - all season gifts. Any thoughts? Did Yahoo see something they don't like? Being fickle?

[fathom]

Either I'm missing it, or the rank has changed at Yhaoo. I can't find it in the first few pages for the phrase - all season gifts. Any thoughts? Did Yahoo see something they don't like? Being fickle?

Couldn't tell ya - not attempting to rank for that 'no queries'.

[arius]

Moderator Note: This thread split from Sandboxing? (http://forums.searchenginewatch.com/showthread.php?t=2243)


Brand new eComm site, never before owned domain, new host, and IP in Gift Basket industry.

So based on 'sandbox' how long to rank?Based on my own general observations if a site begins life with 1000's of pages it can be sandboxed for as long as 3 months. A few hundred pages are indexed at first and then the remainder are indexed by the end of the 3 months.
Has anyone else noticed this?

[Dave Hawley]

Fathom, tell me why Google wont see this as a link farm? I realise you don't require a link back, but I don't think the bots are that clever yet.

[fathom]

Fathom, tell me why Google wont see this as a link farm? I realise you don't require a link back, but I don't think the bots are that clever yet.

not sure what you mean but a link farm is...

Dave link to all:

al links to Dave, bob, chuck, dan, ed, fred, gary, harry, ian, jack, etc.

bob links to al, Dave, chuck, dan, ed, fred, gary, harry, ian, jack, etc.

chuck links to al, bob, Dave, dan, ed, fred, gary, harry, ian, jack, etc.

dan links to al, bob, chuck, Dave, ed, fred, gary, harry, ian, jack, etc.

ed links to al, bob, chuck, dan, Dave, fred, gary, harry, ian, jack, etc.

fred links to al, bob, chuck, dan, ed, Dave, gary, harry, ian, jack, etc.

harry links to al, bob, chuck, dan, ed, fred, Dave, harry, ian, jack, etc.

ian links to al, bob, chuck, dan, ed, fred, gary, harry, Dave, jack, etc.

jack links to al, bob, chuck, dan, ed, fred, gary, harry, ian, Dave, etc.

and so on.

This is a link farm 'all' link to 'all'.

I assume you are referring to the directory where '1' links to all & all link to '1'.

[Dave Hawley]

Yes, on the resource page of the All Seasons Gifts site you have a free-for-all link directory. Is the site a generic directory or not? In others words, you are linking to off-topic sites and they are likely linking back to you. On this page all links lead back to home, regardless of their text.

Also, the Home link doesn't go home on most pages.

[fathom]

Yes, on the resource page of the All Seasons Gifts site you have a free-for-all link directory.

it's a directory of websites [link exchange]

Is the site a generic directory or not?

The actual site is a eComm for Gift Basket sales.

In others words, you are linking to off-topic sites and they are likely linking back to you. On this page all links lead back to home, regardless of their text.

Actually recips are linking to the home page and not the main directory page. A number of 'my' sites are linking to here at the moment.

NOTE: this 'is' hidden from public viewing [with exception to this SEW thread, and a select few other sites that have links in it.]

Also, the Home link doesn't go home on most pages.

I previously stated that the directory itself is not connected to the main site.

...wanted to have a few links in each category before connected.

[sem4u]

Dave - many sites have a resources section which link to non-related sites. Just look at some of the top ranking ones in competitive areas.

This is not an FFA directory. I am sure that fathom will be checking submissions and only uploading links that are deemed appropriate.

[siteseo]

You've got some dupe content issues which are possibly impacting your Google rank. Check Copyscape...

[fathom]

You've got some dupe content issues which are possibly impacting your Google rank. Check Copyscape...

In the worse case 33% of the content appears elsewhere but with an average 83% uniqueness on total page content... I highly doubt an issue.

[Marcia]

The resources section is irrelevant to the original topic of this thread, although the sites linked to are something some of us generally look at with a rather discriminating eye.

It's been two full months since the inception of this thread. How do the recent developments since inception shed light on the "sandbox" or "deep freeze" issue? Or do they at all - and if so, in what way?

[fathom]

The resources section is irrelevant to the original topic of this thread, although the sites linked to are something some of us generally look at with a rather discriminating eye.

It's been two full months since the inception of this thread. How do the recent developments since inception shed light on the "sandbox" or "deep freeze" issue? Or do they at all - and if so, in what way?

Actually I don't think it can truly give anything one way or the other. While the site was originally to be promoted immediately more pressing matters have delayed that development.

[Dave Hawley]

Thanks for the answers Fathom. IMO, this is more of an example of a site set up with Google in mind rather than human users and is likely one that would be 'sandboxed' due to the link scheme.

I know this will cause controversy so I will bow out of this one thanks :)

[dazzlindonna]

It has been noted today that using the old Florida-style -asdf -asdf type of search shows us where sandboxed sites would rank without the sandbox filter.

Running this search in Google: all season gifts -asdf -asdf -asdf -asdf -asdf -asdf -asdf -asdf -asdf -asdf -asdf -asdf -asdf

(must be at least 13 instances of nonsense word)

results in fathom's site being #1 for the term all season gifts

(and yes, i know he said he isn't optimizing for that phrase, but anyway...)

Same kind of results that I am seeing for my site and others who have sandboxed sites. So, there IS a filter of some kind. the question remains...what kind?