EPilot Recommendation

[pumpdoug]

We have recently started doing ppc's with EPilot, and have had a good repsonse on CTR, but have not seen any sales, or bites from it. I was wondering how legit they are, and if anybody has had any experience good or bad with them. If you could either email me, or post a thread i would greatly appreciate it!

[wwi]

pumpdoug,

I have been considering ePilot but was turned off by some poor reviews. At http://www.payperclickuniverse.com/top-pay-per-click-search-engines.php you can access user feedback for ePilot. All 3 report the same thing you have, which is very high traffic and very low conversions, which could mean problems with fraudulent clicks.

I'd be interested to hear any other experiences people have had with ePilot. It seems like a great way to access a lot of less competitive searches, but I'm a little leery of signing up.

[andrewgoodman]

The first question I would ask myself would be: "where does ePilot's traffic come from?" Answer isn't clear? Then it would be no surprise that the so-called traffic doesn't convert to anything.

[Discovery]

I would highly recommend that you make sure you have squeezed every bit of traffic out of Google and Yahoo before you even spend one minute working up ads on 2nd tier networks such as EPilot.

IF and that is a big IF, you reach your limit at the top two, then look into Find What, and Lycos. Both have delivered decent, but certainly not exciting results for us.

DOGS: Do not even bother with Epilot, Looksmart or enhance. Ton of traffic, ton of clicks, NO conversions. Absolutely terrible.

[sebastian]

I agree with discovery above...

E-pilot has some pretty aggressive sales folks who cold call like crazy. Seems the moe biz you do with OV and GOOGLE, the more they call.

Having tested some smaller tier PPC campaigns, i'd have to agree that findwhat can provide some decent results, but nothing like what you will get with the top dogs ...and yea, Looksmart has been a real dog for us as well but i run small campaigns there at position 1-3.

I am glad this thread started. I was contemplating E-pilot as a test, but i think i will sit on the fence for awhile and concentrate on maximizing with the 2 top programs.

[krisval]

Stay Away! I received reimbursement from them after I proved they sent fraudulent clicks.

Check your IP logs & amount of time spent on your site from their traffic. I have had so many bad experiences with these small PPC companies like ePilot, that I only use Google, Overture, and sometimes Findwhat. That's it.

Just look at the sites out there. Do you ever see a feed from ePilot?? No. You see adsense everywhere and at the top Meta Search companies like Infospace, you see Overture.

[ElizabethReynolds]

pumpdoug, I'm having some good intitial results from a small engine geared towards engineers. Try and find something specific to your industry rather than a broad based engine, chances are that would send higher quality clicks your way.

[fillossofer]

Just to put some numbers in the mix, from 10/1/04-12/31/04 we ran:
E-pilot campaign and here are the results:
5854 clicks 12 conversions =0.20%

During the same time, we ran Overture:
4610 clicks 428 conversions =9.28%

And Findwhat:
16141 clicks 333 conversions =2.06%

How about Kanoodle?
2860 0 0%

Mamma?
657 0 0%

LookSmart? (Ouch)
21411 10 0.05%

So we booted all of those for Google, and guess what:
17833 2441 13.69%

Second tiers are terrible.

[Chris Boggs]

I wish someone from e-Pilot would come in here and defend their product. The numbers posted by fillosofer seem quite damning...

[seobook]

>During the same time, we ran Overture:
4610 clicks 428 conversions =9.28%

>So we booted all of those for Google, and guess what:
17833 2441 13.69%

seems like both of those are fairly solid.

[skigirl333]

I agree, don't get involved with Epilot. We dropped them about six months ago because we would recieve a lot of clicks but no conversions.

Has anyone tried or had any luck with Espotting? I am wondering what other people's experiences are with this PPC. We currently do PPC advertising with them, but are not seeing favorable results.

[AussieWebmaster]

>During the same time, we ran Overture:
4610 clicks 428 conversions =9.28%

>So we booted all of those for Google, and guess what:
17833 2441 13.69%

seems like both of those are fairly solid.
I agree the top two provide solid results.... but what type of work went in to getting the right terms that convert that well?

We have numerous terms that do 20% or better.... and others that are crap.

We have found some of the small guys... SearchFeed and 7Search are giving us similiar numbers but have so little traffic.

[fillossofer]

We didn't have to do much to get those results. In fact, another buyer here manages the campaigns who is young and could probably write much better copy. But as the adage goes "if it ain't broke...".

With the second tier engines I was managing the campaigns and started with what we had in Goog & O. That didn't work so every few days I'd change stuff. Copy and keyword changes didn't have measurable effects on CTR or conversions. It was inexplicable really. We burned through a couple thousand dollars and couldn't get any keywords to perform. We actually created tracking for each keyword and none worked.

My summation is that those engines just don't get real traffic. I know many of the second tiers have distribution networks, as I have seen our PPC listed on search sites I know we do not have accounts with. Since those distribution partners make a percentage of the revenue for those clicks, they are incented to generate clicks. Well, if the top tier engines get 97% of the searches, how could an obscure engine produce so many clicks? I believe the answer is click-bots and humans paid to click on them.

If you consider that in many third-world nations the average worker is paid about $50/week, you can see how attractive it could be for someone there to participate in this activity. :(

There are several engines I'm hearing about such as those you mention that while they don't get much traffic, the conversion rates are in line. That's where I'm putting my money. Trouble is, I think there are enough people who don't analyse the results to keep the others in business. I mean, if I just had to tell the boss we got nine thousand "hits" last month, I'd be lovin' it!

[Qal]

I've been an ePilot affiliate in the past and Advertiser too sometime back. Its has been a terrible experience. Avoid them!

So far, Overture, FindWhat and eSpotting have been great for me.

[AussieWebmaster]

I had problems with EPilot also.

[worldnomad]

We have gone hard on SE marketing and have seen the following results

SE's with conv.rate >10%

Google
Overture

SE's with conv.rate 1-10%

7Search
SearchFeed

Absolute Dogs

Business.com
Rolist
Oodles
Adsonar
Lycos.Insite
Kelkoo
Netster
Enhance
Find What
Kanoodle
Mamma
ePilot
eSpotting
Mirago
GoClick
Turbo10
Search123


You think we might have learnt after 4-5 .... :)

[AussieWebmaster]

We have gone hard on SE marketing and have seen the following results

SE's with conv.rate >10%

Google
Overture

SE's with conv.rate 1-10%

7Search
SearchFeed

Absolute Dogs

Business.com
Rolist
Oodles
Adsonar
Lycos.Insite
Kelkoo
Netster
Enhance
Find What
Kanoodle
Mamma
ePilot
eSpotting
Mirago
GoClick
Turbo10
Search123


You think we might have learnt after 4-5 .... :)
You always have to keep trying. We revisit many of these at least twice a year. We just use the same info we have at Overture/Yahoo and spreadsheet wide change the tracking code from Overture to the new engine name.

Also the percentages can be deceiving - they are manipulatable by creative change.....

[Chris Boggs]

We have gone hard on SE marketing and have seen the following results...etc...

Worldnomad thanks for the input. This is a good start to further this debate IMO.

I am curious as to how many clients you tried with the "absolute dogs." At least 3 or 4 per? More?

I also wonder about the business.com portal being on that list. We have avoided many of the other "dogs," but seem to fall within the 1-10% range for B2B clients using business.com.

Further data about your sample would be greatly appreciated. Numbers would be nice, but even some industries would be great. Also, are you including contextual advertising results or can you separate your expereiences based on match/content?

thanks again! cb

[sem4u]

Interesting post worldnomad.

It would be useful to see how bad the 'dogs' are. I am interested in looking at Business.com and Kelkoo in particular.

[AussieWebmaster]

Business.com has worked well for us, but we are a niched financial.
The one annoying thing about them is they bid on the small engines to increase their traffic.
I love seeing them at the other dogs you have listed above buying traffic for 1-5 cents and then charging the advertisers $1+ on their end!!!

[mcanerin]

One thing that has only been brought up indirectly here is that although most of the time it's the PPC company in question that is the dog, sometimes it's because different people use different sites.

I have a pharmacy client that gets the best results from Google and only so-so results from Overture. But a real estate client that swears by Overture and swears AT Google.

Google tends to be the most expensive, but attracts the widest audience - it's the safest bet, though not always the most profitable one.

Overture tends to be more for the less technical crowd (ie the Yahoo portal junkies and the people who don't know how to change their homepage from MSN because that's how it came installed.) The second tier guys tend to convert better in hobby and country/city specific niches, in my experience.

So it's not just the engine, it's what you are offering and to who. If you are after trout, don't go deep sea fishing. Lots of fish there, just not the right ones for your bait.

Ian

[AussieWebmaster]

One thing that has only been brought up indirectly here is that although most of the time it's the PPC company in question that is the dog, sometimes it's because different people use different sites.

I have a pharmacy client that gets the best results from Google and only so-so results from Overture. But a real estate client that swears by Overture and swears AT Google.

Google tends to be the most expensive, but attracts the widest audience - it's the safest bet, though not always the most profitable one.

Overture tends to be more for the less technical crowd (ie the Yahoo portal junkies and the people who don't know how to change their homepage from MSN because that's how it came installed.) The second tier guys tend to convert better in hobby and country/city specific niches, in my experience.

So it's not just the engine, it's what you are offering and to who. If you are after trout, don't go deep sea fishing. Lots of fish there, just not the right ones for your bait.

Ian
Very true Ian, and even keywords are different and the creatives that work for the different engines.

[BrianLong]

I should have read this thread before trying Enhance, ePilot, and Search123.

I tried them today and stopped within hours of starting.

I have click-level reporting on my site and was able to see that none of the clicks stayed on my site after the first click. This is extremely unusual, almost all legitimate traffic to my site views at least 2 pages. Also, the partner sites that generated the clicks all appeared to be fraud farms.

All these companies need to get a handle on click fraud or they will find them selves out of business. Stay away!

[AussieWebmaster]

Try searchfeed, 7search and findology

[CallawayGuy]

Because of a glitch in our reporting my company did not detect some unusual click activity with ePilot. We received over 22,000 clicks from ePilot last month costing a little over $2,500 and received only 2 conversions. Obviously this traffic is completely worthless. We have however had a little luck with several engines including Findwhat, eSpotting and Kanoodle. Although we get a ton of useless traffic and our conversion rates are low, the campaigns cost very little on a CPC basis and our ROI is usually pretty good. Keep a close eye on the third tier engines or you can sucker punched like we did with ePilot, but like has been stated before stick with Google and Yahoo if you want the most bang for your buck.

[AussieWebmaster]

Because of a glitch in our reporting my company did not detect some unusual click activity with ePilot. We received over 22,000 clicks from ePilot last month costing a little over $2,500 and received only 2 conversions. Obviously this traffic is completely worthless. We have however had a little luck with several engines including Findwhat, eSpotting and Kanoodle. Although we get a ton of useless traffic and our conversion rates are low, the campaigns cost very little on a CPC basis and our ROI is usually pretty good. Keep a close eye on the third tier engines or you can sucker punched like we did with ePilot, but like has been stated before stick with Google and Yahoo if you want the most bang for your buck.
Try the ones I suggested above and in the meantime contact EPilot about the numbers and they should be willing to give you deep refunds. They want feedback and info about the partnerships they have out there. So if you can help them with referal info on the clicks etc. they will give you a decent refund. Or at least I had that result.