Thoughts & Tips On Local SEO?

[Monty2]

MODERATOR NOTE: A new Thoughts on a Separate Forum for Local Optimization (http://forums.searchenginewatch.com/showthread.php?t=3498) thread was split from this one, along with the poll on voting if such a forum should be added. Information and comments are in that new thread. Feel free to contribute on that subject there, while this thread had been renamed to reflect the emphasis on local search marketing tips.

Friends:

I have already learnt a lot from you veterans of seo just by browsing the different forums. Thank you for sharing your expertise so generously.

I am the owner of a Day Spa in Charleston, SC and am interested in all information and strategies regarding ONLY LOCAL optimization. Our clientele comes from just 15 miles from our location.

Are any members specializing in local seo?

I would really appreciate a critical look at my url: Iyashispa.com and give me some advice as to what I should do next.

I made some changes to my site to optimize it for localization by adding geographic information to my webpages. I have put most of the information where viewers would not instantly see it. One has to scroll down the page to see it. I have also added some relevant articles in that space.

Is that advisable?

What else should I do?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[fathom]

Local PPC e.g. Google Adwords specifically targeting the city and surrounding ISPs is the best 'immediate' return. Your ads will only appear to local searchers.

The best overall organic strategy is get your physical address on every page. If also a link back to your mainpage for >city< and >state< [separate links] this will have a positive effect.

Adding location to your title element <title></title> will improve that potential.

e.g. <title>unique individual page title Day Spa @ Charleston, South Carolina</title>

Don't forget that while 'day spa & location' are your primary targets - searchers search on a gamut of terms that could still want you everything from hot tub, sauna, rehabilitation centers, clinics, mind, body and spirit, nutured, pampered, rejuvenated, refreshed, recharged... so each webpage (title) shouldn't just focus on 'day spa & location'.

[cryptblade]

Hey Monty,

Thanks for starting a neat topic thread. I'm doing this for a friend of mine too - actually two of them. One has a hair salon and another has a cleaning business - both very local businesses. PM if I dont get to you first.

But I checked out your site and one of the first things I see missing is day spa and the geography in your title tags and on each page of your site.

Don't forget to list your sites locally in Google - at last check it was free. Yahoo has a free listing - and paid listing at $10/month. Try doing a search for your keywords and geography. Google will still factor relevancy in their search rankings, so it's definitely a good idea to list your address throughout your pages.

Great idea - hope this thread develops more.

[Monty2]

Thanks for the advice.

I have submitted my url to Google Local and have been in Google's regional adwords program. for 5 months.

I am using Website Complete 5.0 to construct my website since I do not know html coding. I have found this package to be so much more user friendly than Front Page or Dreamweaver.

When I add the html code for the title metatag to add geographic info - the software overrides it. When I rename the page, it messes up my navigation links since the page titles are so long.

Any suggestions?

[cryptblade]

When I add the html code for the title metatag to add geographic info - the software overrides it. When I rename the page, it messes up my navigation links since the page titles are so long.

Any suggestions?

Yes - get rid of the software! But that would be too simple and not useful information.

I suggest you use that to generate the pages - do it all wysiwyg - and then copy the code, put it on notepad. You have your pages in .html not .php or anything, so this transition would not be a problem for you.

Then go into notepad and manually change the <title> and file name. But dont worry too much about the file name. I like doing the filenames by keywords and separated by dashes or underscores because it's logical for me. I look at my files and know what each file is about. That isn't necessary for you.

So go ahead and copy the code into notepad and fix it manually, save it to the filename you want, and you should be all set.

But one thing I noticed is that you have multiple meta tags. You have them near the top of your code and you have them after the <script> code. I'm not sure if SEs will look down on that. You dont really need to worry about that since you aren't trying to span for national listings, but regardless, you will want to clean up that code - if only for your own management sake. I go by the rule of KISS - keep it simple stupid.

[Nacho]

Are any members specializing in local seo?
There is nobody better than Chicago (http://forums.searchenginewatch.com/member.php?u=2188) in our SEM industry for Local SEO & PPC in my book.

I'll drop him a invitation to stop by this thread.

[cryptblade]

There is nobody better than Chicago (http://forums.searchenginewatch.com/member.php?u=2188) in our SEM industry for Local SEO & PPC in my book.

I'll drop him a invitation to stop by this thread.

Hope Chicago will join and share his experiences. Maybe he can shed light on the pay-per-call services too. I've looked into it myself but Findwhat is so new to this that they can offer very little information.

Does anyone else know if Google measures localized search differently since they have a separate local search site submission section? I've noticed that Yahoo, for example, seems to still rely on onsite copy for their results.

I did tests by using both Yahoo and Google and typing in pizza +19107 . Google will list stuff not entirely close, but what they think is most relevant. Yahoo's listing seems like it bases a lot on onsite copy - based on the results I saw.

I like Google's setup better and than Yahoo's local search though.

[Paul]

Others have made great points. I’ll just give my quick 2 cents.

I’m not familiar with the software you use, but it sounds like if you’re able to do it without the software, I would ditch it and optimize for each page.

Just a couple quick ideas… If you beef up your CitySearch profile page to a couple good, descriptive paragraphs and include (and hopefully not stuff) main and secondary keywords as well as different cities such as Charleston (SC), Mt. Pleasant, etc… your profile page might see some good G rankings. It might be worth it to give it a test. You would most likely see if it worked within a week or so.

If there’s a way for them to write an editorial review, it might even be better. You shouldn’t be charged for the click. I do not know what constitutes a review. Maybe a cap minimum, a request from you, I’m not certain. Hopefully Chicago or others have better input.

If you don’t already, maybe a test on a national AdWords campaign that includes the words Charleston, SC, Mt. Pleasant, etc… The only reason I say that is because you have a gift certificate link very visible from your home page. Maybe people in Seattle or Houston would want to buy a GC for relatives or friends in your area. Maybe in the short ad, you could mention “gift certificates available” or something similar? Just an idea.

Don't forget that while 'day spa & location' are your primary targets - searchers search on a gamut of terms that could still want you everything from hot tub, sauna, rehabilitation centers, clinics, mind, body and spirit, nutured, pampered, rejuvenated, refreshed, recharged... so each webpage (title) shouldn't just focus on 'day spa & location'.

Definitely!

Nice thread. I hope this develops more.

Paul

[dannysullivan]

Nacho mentioned Chicago, that is, Justin Sanger of LocalLaunch. Justin spoke recently at our SES Chicago conference panel, and I'm sure you'll probably see SearchDay coverage of that to come. It wasn't one of the sessions that rustybrick covered during the recent live coverage (http://forums.searchenginewatch.com/showthread.php?threadid=3261) here on the forums, unfortunately.

While Justin's site is primarily about getting people who want local search marketing to work with his company, he does offer a good local resources (http://www.locallaunch.com/resources.aspx) section. with article archives on the topic from his company and from across the web. Local Search Guide (http://www.localsearchguide.org/) is a new resource backed by the Yellow Pages Association that might be useful.

Our paid Search Engine Watch members (http://searchenginewatch.com/benefits/article.php) have access to our Local Search category (http://searchenginewatch.com/_subscribers/topics/article.phpr?id=null&topic=search_types_local). This is an annotated guide to all types of stories relating to local search and local search marketing stretching back to June 2003. It includes a big series (http://searchenginewatch.com/searchday/article.php/3111631) I did at the end of last year, along with articles and information from across the web since then.

FYI: Just had to add a note of thanks to the Google Desktop app. Lost this post as part of the thread split, and the caching feature got it back for me.

[rustybrick]

It wasn't one of the sessions that rustybrick covered during the recent live coverage (http://forums.searchenginewatch.com/showthread.php?threadid=3261) here on the forums, unfortunately.

I deeply regret that, I heard the session was the best one of the whole conference. Anyone have any notes on that session, that they can share?

[cryptblade]

I'm curious as to what Local Search marketing has been like. In particular, I'm curious about the dynamics of SEO vs. PPC management in local search marketing.

Monty's dayspa is similar to my friend's hair salon site. But the main source of business is still word-of-mouth for her.

How does one reconcile the dynamics of a localized business and the traditional marketing used, with localized web marketing?

What kind of costs are we looking at with PPC? How does PPC interfere with traditional localized ads? What about advertising QC and branding? Does the traditional branding image help or hurt a local business?

Ultimately, while having a website for any business is better than not, what are some realized benefits from having a website for a local business?

I'm really curious about the overall picture, and certainly about the fine details.

[Monty2]

In the case of the Day Spa a localized search leading to action can be important because we offer confirmed Online Appointments. Also, we are located in a tourist town so we have out-of-town visitors that are searching for a massage while on vacation.

If your hair salon friend would like to add Online Appointments, I can refer you to an asp that has a pretty simple interface and reasonable monthly rates.

[Chicago]

Hey Nacho, Danny, Fathom and others.

Thanks for the kind words and links (now my team is working feverishly to update months worth of news:/ will have it up to date tonight:/)

There are a dozen good questions and points raised in this thread and one may wonder where to start giving feedback. I will address the overarching question of a local search forum.

Recently I was named the moderator of local search at WMW. The forum is only a few weeks old, but it is off to a pretty good start. I believe strongly in the importance of local search discussions amongst the SEM community, yet it is apparent to me that the traditional SEM community has not yet imbraced the changing landscape and importance of local search.

It is very difficult to generate productive dialogue with this community as a whole, and I instead find that there is a small and stable group of thread participants that drive the forum. I could write a book on why there has been a lack of general acceptance of local search amongst the traditional SEM community, but instead I will simply suggest that much of the lack of particpation associated with local search by traditional SEMs is being generated by the concept of small business adoption. Put another way ~ there is a high opportunity cost associated with servicing small businesses in an ever changing local search marketplace.

Depending on the parameters that you use there are either 10MM or 22MM SMEs (small and medium sized enterprises) in the US. Yet less than 3% of this group is currently taking part in Internet search marketing. 46% of the budgets are being directed towards traditional yellow pages. This is changing rapidly however, as small businesses (due to many factors) are beginning to migrate there budgets to the Internet. Some sources see the migration to top 28% of total SME budgets by 2008. So, clearly, this market is worthy of ones attention.

At the same time, however, the average small business spends less than 6K annually on marketing. That is less than $500 total dollars per month on marketing. IMO it is due to the difficulties in managing these small budgets in the face of greater SEM opportunities that has prevented the SEM community to turning their attention towards local search. Often when you talk about managing SME accounts, you are talking about scale, automation, thin margins, and support. These are not the factors that are traditionally embraced by experienced, independant SEMs, regardless of the fact that as an aggregate SMEs spend over $22B annually in local marketing.

Notwithstanding this lack of SEM community participation, the tide is turning. An entirely new breed of search marketing professionals are entering the fray. This group is an important group to cultivate. They include the IYP professionals, the city guides, the social networking community, the new algorythmic local search providers, the user ratings and review community, the newspaper community, and most of all, the small business community.

Given the entrance of this new breed of local Internet marketing constituents, the apparent growth of the local search industry that will reach $3B in 3 years, the obvious confusion amongst the small biz community, and the tremendous amount of innovation taking place in the local search arena, there is a compelling reason to start now and grow a local search forum.

The lack of attention being paid by SEM professionals to this space has created a tremendous opportunity for businesses currently mobilizing in this area. Today, local search optimization and tactics are like traditional SEM in 1998 ~ those that master it will find a landscape void of competition and full of opportunity.

[cryptblade]

Chicago,

As you neared the end of your post, are you saying that local search dynamics go beyond the local businesses and catering to small local businesses, but actually encompass those city guides, publications, directories, etc.?

I mean, what I sense is that the SEM professional should not just look at doing SEO or SEM for local businesses, but actually develop a local search resource for the community. I think I've actually seen some SEOs do that - often a labor of love.

I think that is pretty exciting. Instead of just Google local search - some could take the road of branding their own local search, focus entirely on the community and be a greater resource than any of the large SEs.

Anyway - interesting and remains to be developed at least, mature at best - but the potential is exciting.

[rcjordan]

>I'm curious as to what Local Search marketing has been like. In particular, I'm curious about the dynamics of SEO vs. PPC management in local search marketing.

I can't speak for PPC, but SEO-based "geo-destination" search marketing has been doing good-to-great-to-fantastic, at least it has since '96 when I became involved. As I see it, "geo-destination" search is much the same as Local search except the audience is typically located outside the target area they are researching. Only lately have I seen evidence that rural and semi-rural users are starting to think of search as an alternative to the YPs and/or local newspaper ads and classifieds. It would seem that the larger metro areas are more likely to see the effects first, something which current articles about Craigslist appears to confirm.
http://feedster.com/search.php?q=craigslist+classified&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&sort=date

But whether geo- or local, Chicago hit the mark squarely with SMEs, it's all about the price point and most can not, will not, do not spend the money it takes for a search engine marketing campaign.

[Marcia]

rcjordan
But whether geo- or local, Chicago hit the mark squarely with SMEs, it's all about the price point and most can not, will not, do not spend the money it takes for a search engine marketing campaign.
Exactly, which is a complex issue.

[cryptblade]

But whether geo- or local, Chicago hit the mark squarely with SMEs, it's all about the price point and most can not, will not, do not spend the money it takes for a search engine marketing campaign.

I think this gives SEO/M professionals an opportunity to do specialized work. For those interested - perhaps more interested in helping businesses than in other in online marketing, etc.

This could be an opportunity - in this current stage - for a lot of individual SEOs to offer a value-based service. Value in greater terms than just marketing ROI. I would imagine that, as a local business, to allocate any amount of budget for search marketing, the value would need to be much, much greater than just increased sales.

It's like they must be resold on marketing all together. If professionals can develop the right mix - maybe site design, site hosting, and online marketing, the multiple source of revenue can make it worthwhile. The problem then becomes how much work is necessary and is it worth it - cost/revenue vs. time?

I still see potential, though and I think, as user/searcher, it would be a lot better for a local business to have a basic website with information - like location, history, "about us", hours of operation, contact - phone, etc. I dont need them to have a database or other stuff - just enough information to make me feel a little better about them and be confident in doing business with them. Does that make sense?

[earlpearl]

I've worked hard on improving search results for my local based business for the past few years. Had no programming or design background.

Currently (certainly not 2 years ago) we are ranked on 1st page for 3 major engines for my industry on many critical phrases and the number 1 phrase. We have some #1's.

Far more importantly we are ranked 1st for all (or virtually all) local phrases to find the business/service.

Recently looked at some data(exclusively google so far) over a 5 month period.

Local search phrases (service business keyword(s) with a local word or the abbreviation) accounted for almost 30 times more traffic than use of google local. BTW local yellow pages and local google were about the same volume.

All of our bls (over the last 8 months) include our local terms. Its actually 3 terms so it dilutes the allinanchor impact for the generic term (non-local).

Regardless, we maintain the highest local terms. Recently a firm with slightly higher generic rankings came into our market. For all local searches we rank higher. I have seen the same phenomena in 2 other major metro markets, where firms that focused on local SEO rank higher for the local search term than do firms that rank higher for the generic terms. The competitors in the other 2 markets are somewhat lower for the generic terms than my site.

I also looked at total traffic for generic terms and local terms. So far I've only looked at google traffic which accounts for over 1/2 of my search traffic.

Again while we have 1st page results for a number of terms (#5 for the main term over the time I studied - a #1 for a good term and a number of other 1st pages) search traffic hit our site roughly at the same volume for local searches vs. generic searches. (BTW, our title in google always includes our local terms.)

Conversions, which are contacts - not sales are far higher for searches coming in from local searches versus generic searches.

We do some limited PPC. I'll check google volume of traffic from PPC versus organic results but I already know organic results are far higher.

I suspect there is a lucrative business there for SEO, but as mentioned in posts above it will require limited and quick effective optimizing as local businesses don't have the budgets of national companies.

As of 2/2/05 I've noticed, as have a few webmasters in various forums, that google changed algo's so that local businesses show far better on local searches than previously. Sites with relatively few bls vauted to high rankings whereas they were buried before for even the local terms.

Dave

[earlpearl]

Little Update for May, 2005. For our site through May 18, we had about 22 times the traffic in google via searchers using local phrases versus use of google local. Yellow pages volume was 1/2 of use of google local.

Currently, my experience is that optimizing for local traffic is far more valuable than advertising locally and or relying on google, MSN, or Y local.

Dave

[danielanaidu]

maybe you discussed this somewhere else earlier, but have you tried Adwords with a geographically defined ad distribution? if so, what has your experience been? thanks.

[earlpearl]

maybe you discussed this somewhere else earlier, but have you tried Adwords with a geographically defined ad distribution? if so, what has your experience been? thanks.

We use geographically defined adwords. We use it w/both geo defined terms and our generic (non-local) terms within a radius that makes sense for our business.

Frankly, we are not expert in this area. To date we have been using a limited budget. We get tons more genric hits than through PPC. We are honestly not studying it hard...but it does add to traffic and conversions. The contacts we get are 95% of the time within our geo area so it seems to capture people accurately.

Dave

[conciseusa]

I have been working hard on this subject of online local marketing the last few years. The solution I have been working on is to create a system where a small local business fills out a form and a web site is created and hosted for them by a fully automated system. After 3 years of programming, the system is up and running and a number of small business are using it with good results.

You can see the system at http://www.5minutesite.com

Then to help local business setup local PPC campaigns, I created a tool that automates the time consuming job of localizing keyword lists. You can use the tool if you like:
http://5minutesite.com/local_keywords.php

I still have a lot of work to add features to the site creation and hosting system, but I have gotten it to the point of proof of concept. The sites it creates will not win any awards, but they look OK and have proven effective at bringing in new customers. Since it is totally automated and the client can log in and update their site at any time, I am able to offer services with in the budget of a local business and still make money. Well at least that is the goal. We will see how well it works out long term.

Any comments on what I have been grinding away on would be welcome.