SEO Professionals?

[Golgotha]

we all get those emails stating that you could use the services of an SEO professional, or perhaps you call yourself one.

We know that there is currently no credential that indicates professional status, like that of an MSCE or CCNA, so the question I pose to you is what would such a credential resemble if you had your druthers?

[rustybrick]

There is actually one organization trying to drive SEO certification

http://www.seopros.org/org/certification.htm

[Golgotha]

well that is a class that 'they' provide and upon passing their exam you are certified, ok, it's a start. But, what makes the MCSE, CCNA and like certifications of value is the industry recognition.

I'm just thinking out loud here, but perhaps for there to be a recognized and valued certification for the web marketing professional companies like Google, Yahoo, MSN, Teoma ect. could come together to have a say it what they would like to see in an exam and then put their stamp of approval upon the cert.

[rustybrick]

I personally do not think this will happen any time soon.

With doctors, accounting and legal industries there is a lot of formal schooling. There are standardized rules to follow. There is law.

With SEO, SEM, Web design and the like, you can not apply a real certification (barrier to entry). It is like giving a certification in art (do they do that?).

In my opinion, the industry is too premature to offer such a certification.

[David Wallace]

Really an SEO or SEM professional is anyone or company who makes their living at it IMO. It doesn't have anything to do if they are good at it or horrible - they make their living at it so it is their profession.

I am a musician and a pretty good one. I am also a very good vocalist. However, I do not consider myself a "professional musician" or a "professional vocalist". That is not based on talent but rather due to the fact that I do not make a living as a musician (wish I did). On the other hand I have seen “professional musicians” who were horrible and we all know there are many “professional vocalists” that couldn’t sing their way out of a paper bag (u-mm <coughs> can you say ‘Britney’).

We may see one day where they have search engine marketing course in colleges in the same way they have general advertising and marketing courses (I think instructors are already incorporating it to some degree). When that happens, we may then see credentials next to peoples name but right now, the industry is just to infant.

[Incubator]

IMO, we still face the "cottage industry" factor until the person who signs the cheques goes to thier fav. portal and types in thier product or service the added value is not seen. Most of the time we spend on education or de-education of the current stats across online marketing, that being said, forums are a great way of updating info across the board. I believe that if you are an SEO/SEM and you make a living of it you will have to treat it as a full time job,automated packages just dont work, if they did many of us would be out of work along time ago. To find out about professionalism check client lists and call for references, chances are if you are good at what you do, companies wont let you go and sometimes that goes beyond SEO and SEM


Cheers

Wc

[Anthony Parsons]

I think the closest your going to get at present is a marketing degree and further education recognised web design courses.

Can you imagine certifying SEO though....When you start the course, the information is most likely useless by the time you finish the course 4 weeks or 4 months later. There is no book to keep you updated like law or other professions, trades or degrees. Unless the SE's are going to open up sometime soon to release 100% factual info to a person / company to do exactly that.

[Chris_D]

But, what makes the MCSE, CCNA and like certifications of value is the industry recognition.

Like the Pay Per Click Courses at Search Engine College being recognised and supported by Overture?

http://www.infoage.idg.com.au/index.php/id;680580160

SYDNEY, June 17, 2004: Overture Services, a provider of essential online marketing services is supporting the launch of the Australian arm of the world’s leading online training institution for search engine optimisation and marketing – Search Engine College (SEC).

Disclaimer - two moderators of SEW forums are tutors at SEC - Myself and Kal Jordan.

[Kal]

Can you imagine certifying SEO though....When you start the course, the information is most likely useless by the time you finish the course 4 weeks or 4 months later. I always chuckle when I read comments like this (no offence Anthony). I don't subscribe to this view at all. I can't speak for other course providers, but in our courses (which Chris has referred to above), we take a holistic approach to SEO, rather than an "algorithm chasing" approach. We think certification shouldn't be based on knowledge of a particular algorithm at any given moment, but more on the student's ability to make a site compatible with robots and findable by their target markets. We teach more generic methodologies such as making a site search engine compatible, making it indexable, ensuring visitor usability has been accounted for, SE friendly design techniques, how to submit to directories, what engines to submit to etc etc.

None of our courses focus on a particular algorithm or how to optimize your site to rank well on a particular engine. Algorithms are discussed and likely determining ranking factors are looked at but the focus is on the making the site as user friendly and SE compatible as possible. So the information is likely to remain relevant for a long time. Sure there are some areas that will need updating (like who supplies results to whom, who owns whom etc), but students of online courses can be encouraged to research this information for themselves after the course OR the course material can include an organic component that is constantly updated by the tutor. From memory, I think Robin Nobles does something like this with her courses at AWS.

Also, what about all those ebooks and SEO books published offline? They are all out of date by the time of publishing but they still sell well. Shari's book Search Engine Visibility has a companion website for readers to get updated information. Why can't online courses do the same? :confused:

Now I must run - a Thai red curry awaits :p

[Anthony Parsons]

I know Kal....the basics don't change and like anything....well, the basics build the foundation for further knowledge gained from experience and constant focal learning.

I think SEO just may change more than law????

[Kal]

I think SEO just may change more than law????Yeah, but that's what makes it fun! ;)

[Golgotha]

I agree, the foundational basics remain and would just add, that one also has to keep up with their MCSE certifications aswell - almost getting to be a yearly update.

The other side is that the certification would get the search engines and people that optimize for them on the same page, working together - something that you currently don't really see. Now a days, it's almost an us vs them type of thing and until that changes their will be set backs.

[Terry Plank]

...what makes the MCSE, CCNA and like certifications of value is the industry recognition.
I agree that if certification would be helpful it needs to be something that is an industry recognition. There are certifications available out there from training like Robin Nobles/John Alexander and I think Kal's training group has one. Then there are Certificate programs like University of British Columbia's Internet Marketing Certificate Program.

But, these are not recognized as "industry" certifications. I agree with rustybrick that it's not likely to happen soon.

Also, some certification may not be the best answer to the question of who is a "qualified professional" anyway.

[Golgotha]

I agree with rustybrick that it's not likely to happen soon.


that's what the SEW team is for - to push things along - this is the "Ocean's 11" of website promotion right? ...or should that be "Sullivan's 11"


Also, some certification may not be the best answer to the question of who is a "qualified professional" anyway.

agreed, but it at least is some sort of aptitude test.

[cjtripnewton]

I'm not convinced that a certification is necessary, but we certainly need an industry organization, like the AMA. That's one of our goals at SEOPros.org - create an organization that will enable all of us to work together to reach out to the world at large and speak with one voice, keep the press and the markets up-to-date about SEO. Of course, we're working on a certification program as well, but I hope eventually that membership in the organization will act as a form of certification. Everyone is invited to come on over and pitch in.

[Terry Plank]

cjtripnewton, welcome to SEW Forums! I see you have your first two posts today.

SEMPO is also trying to raise the bar in professionalism for the industry. I don't know if anyone at SEMPO has reached out to seopros.org and the other groups committed to this goal. Seems like a good idea. :)

[cjtripnewton]

There's been some discussion, but I think the organizations' goals are very different. There are a lot of commonalities though, especially in our mutual goals to promote the industry as a whole. Thanks for the welcome.

[Golgotha]

Part of my point is when it comes to promoting the industry as a whole, I believe we will be fighting an uphill battle until you get the search engines on board. They (the search engines) need to embrace and walk along side the people that optimize for their engines. Having THEM devise a certification is a step towards this, IMO.

[cjtripnewton]

In my opinion, you can learn almost everything you need to know about optimization here: http://www.w3.org/, especially if you pay close attention to the accessibility and usability sections.

If I could make the certification test, it would involve a blank sheet of paper, a pencil, and would start like this, "Write the code for the following web page..." Of course, almost no one agrees with me on that one.

I think there will be several groups promoting very different certification programs. I don't think the search engines need to be involved, but I think they should join the various industry organizations that some of us are working to build. Several have participated in SEMPO, but that's a business decision based on their desire to sell more PPC accounts. Eventually, I think we'll have an AMA-like organization, and they'll all join.

[Incubator]

IMHO, I don't see any of the major SE's jumping on board for endoursements
of this nature.

Google , Yahoo make there money from PPC, such as adwords,sitematch..etc... having a natural free index is just a bonus to get your listing in.Lets face it,we all start off doing projects for next to nothing or free to build up our own reputations in the marketing world and if we didnt have clients to start with,we built our own sites,got them ranked as used that as a selling tool.

Creditability will only come in time, after you have had successful campaigns for your clients.... testimonials, references and case studies will out win in that area.

I can see it now Google stating "memorize our guidelines and you will pass".

I have been driving a car 19 years now and if i was asked to take the test over again there is a chance i would fail unless i have practiced and done my research to pass the test, but i dont think that test should be placed upon me that says Im a good driver ...I have qualified so further testing would only benefit through another revenue stream for these major engines and lets face it the only ones making money in PPC are the engines themselves and I am sure they would endourse a PPC marketing company alot quicker and probally base that on the amount of revenue generated

my 2 cents

Cheers

WC
:)

[Kal]

In my opinion, you can learn almost everything you need to know about optimization here: http://www.w3.org/, especially if you pay close attention to the accessibility and usability sections. I think you're spot on here. It seems to me that these days professional SEO and SEM is more about getting back to basics than chasing the algorithm of the day. Everything rests on site quality. I am surprised how often I refer students and clients to pages at W3!

[Jeff Nienaber]

Certification is to SEO what Barbizon is to modeling.

The question is, who do we trust with the power to stamp an approval certification on us?

Surely not the engines, because they could just as easily remove certification like they do ranking, for their own reasons.
Surely not one more independent agency that I have to join and attend all their tradeshows.
Surely not the clients because that's ridiculous.
Surely not the SEOs because that's even more ridiculous.

So what are we left with? Results. That makes sense to me.