One Rule for Mods and One Rule for Everyone Else?

[Nick W]

Can we get some clarification from Danny or Elisabeth please on posts to member URLS?

I've noticed that when members post urls to their sites they are being edited, but this does not appear to be the case with moderators doing exactly the same....?

This has nothing to do with my website, hell im scared to death to even mention the fact that i have a website :eek: but it would be nice if there were some clear rule here.

I could cite examples but I dont think finger pointing at individual mods or members is necessary to get some clarity on this is it?

thanks

Nick

[Chris_D]

Hi Nick,

Until Danny or Elisabeth comment, here are the TOS:

We encourage links to outside resources and example sites for the purpose of productive discussion. We will actively remove links that we determine are used solely for the purpose of self-promotion or spam. Should you believe a link is dropped solely for self-promotion or spam purposes, please private message (PM) the forum moderator or use the report a post feature (see below). Please do NOT post such concerns in the thread itself.

http://forums.searchenginewatch.com/faq.php?faq=vb_read_and_post#faq_links

Best

Chris

[Nick W]

Must have changed in the last few days, thanks Chris.

My question still stands though as what im seeing, even with the new guidelines, is a marked preference for mod link drops over members urls.

Dont ya just love a litte contraversy on a friday :) Hope all the US guys and girls had a nice Turkey Day!

Nick

[rustybrick]

I have never removed one of your links Nick, but I can say that mods look to make sure there is added value on the other side of the link.

If it links to something that does not add to the post (of course that is subjective) the mod might remove it.

I do not know if you have been delinked ever.


Subjective rule: added value

[Nick W]

No, not talking about me at all Rusty - see my post above...

[seomike]

Raise hell nick :D

[David Wallace]

I think this is one of the most liberal forums when it comes to allowing links. However I know I have removed a few because they simply were not necessary to the thread, they were possibly seen as self promotional, they were linked to a site with "questionable" practices, etc.

Possibly you can PM me or another mod on a specific example and then we can have a better look at it?

[Lex]

My question still stands though as what im seeing, even with the new guidelines, is a marked preference for mod link drops over members urls.

The answer is absolutely not. Links are edited if they are determined not to add value to the discussion. If you believe you see something to the contrary, please PM Elisabeth with specifics.

[Anthony Parsons]

I know exactly what Nick is saying, as I quite often have seen this myself at this forum. I begin reading something of use, next thing, <snip> the url is gone and I can't have a look at what is being discussed.

Self promotional or not, the rule is if its not relevant. So to me, if someone is saying or discussing an issue with their site, then a URL is necessary and should not be removed. If some snapper is trying to anchor text the link with some spammy anchor, then yes, fair enough, remove the anchor, though leave the raw URL would be nice.

Honestly, delink the URL or bracket it in code so that people can atleast copy and paste it to have a look if the forum is worried about it that much.

Go hard Nick, I know what your getting at mate.

[rustybrick]

Anthony,

Of course this might get a bit touchy. So your best bet is to PM Elisabeth (http://forums.searchenginewatch.com/private.php?do=newpm&u=4) with your direct concerns. This way you can talk freely and you are heard.

[Marcia]

Well, this is about mod vs. member link drops as it relates to application of the rules, but to be perfectly honest I haven't seen many links posted by mods altogether, and though I could have missed it, haven't seen one by a mod yet that linked to a page that had no value.

But like the others said, it's very simple to just PM Elisabeth with the URL and she'll surely check into it and get it resolved.

On that note, there's an interesting discussion going on about what links have value. It's about Google, and of course they're not the only search engine and it's far easier to look up all the links to any particular site at Yahoo, but it's interesting nevertheless

What Links Does Google Count (http://forums.searchenginewatch.com/showthread.php?t=2922)

[Mikkel deMib Svendsen]

I haven't noticed this to an issue at all. Personally I actually don't think I ever put one single link to any of my own sites. Thats not why I post and moderate here. Like other mods, I have removed links or asked members to do so but only when there has been good reasons to do so. In general, I very much appreciate the liberal linking policy that this forum has compared to most others.

Postings will never be all perfect and the same goes for moderators or moderating. When and if you see things you don't find acceptable or fair I do think you should send a note about it to Elisabeth or Danny.

I don't think I am breaking any secrets by saying that there are no special written, or unwritten, rules that gives mods any extended rights to link in posts. We all post by the same forum rules and so it should be, in my mind. My preveliges, as a moderator, should and do only apply to my moderating tasks.

[NFFC]

I haven't seen it as an issue either to be honest.

>added value on the other side of the link

That seems to be a good guideline, maybe up the bar to compelling?

Its very difficult as an individual to keep track of things, you can view things differently than a thrird party. For example, "Personally I actually don't think I ever put one single link to any of my own sites." from Mikkel, I remember one at least, mainly because its so very rare. It sticks in my mind more than the postee's if that makes sense.

IMHPO its an issue that goes at the very heart of a forum. Many of us here spend most waking hours promoting our sites, last thing I want is to come to a forum whose members are using it to promote theirs. Think gynecologist :)

<added> I personally don't mind a blind eye being turned to the occasional mod drop, not saying that it happens, just that I don't mind.

[Chris_D]

NFFC - ROTFL.

Chris.

What else can I say?

[I, Brian]

I have to admit I've had a couple of links delinked. It's just a little invasive as an experience, and personally I thought the links were very justified on each occasion.

However, as a general pointer that perhaps I should err on the side of caution when suggesting links to various sites I admin, I'm fine with being reminded of that. I try to be more mindful of any links I make now.

Knowing when links are entirely promotional or a good reference can be a difficult call to make. On one forum I admin, I've recently brought in a new wave of moderators, some of whom view any self-linkage as something to edit.

I've had to set up guidelines, indicating that I see nothing wrong in people dropping a link to their sites here and there, if it's within the discussion topic, and so long as it's not happening every second post.

The main pointer for them was to weigh up a user's contribution to the overall community.

Some people run business sites for selling services, but also reference sites, as general help and interest across various topic areas. Perhaps if someone is seen to be rather eagerly suggesting links to their own reference sites, a polite word via PM on general posting ethic regarding linkage might go a bit further than a few edits. :)

In a forum with such commercial emphasis, and involving so many staff, obviously finding that point of best equilibrium might take a little time.

[dannysullivan]

Can we get some clarification from Danny or Elisabeth please on posts to member URLS?
The FAQ that was posted pretty much covers this -- and nope, it was not changed recently to my knowledge. I think it's been that was for well over a month, if not longer. Elisabeth can confirm.

I've noticed that when members post urls to their sites they are being edited, but this does not appear to be the case with moderators doing exactly the same....?
Fair to say, the VAST majority of URLs posted to the forums are NOT edited. Some are.

One reason is because, as many will recall, there was a huge uproar not to long ago about some members being concerned that link drops were just being done as a form of public spam reporting. If a technique can be discussed without having to point at a particular site, then we'll edit out the site.

Another reason is for those occasional self-promotional drops that do happen. I've done some of these. In any case where I've done it, I've emailed the person why and have removed it.

We've probably been a little more aggressive on removing links where what's pointed at isn't substantially more than what's already been in the post. In other words, if you put everything in the post -- adding in a link reference in addition to that didn't add value.

If that's happening to anyone a lot, I'd suggest trying to strike a happy balance. Provide some key details that helps add to a forum discussion, and link out if you have even more information that might be helpful but which doesn't really need to go right into a forum thread.

On the flipside, there's also occasional edits where someone has put very little into the post and simply pointed over to a reference saying check this out.

Our mechanism for this has been Beta Test. The idea was that if you just wanted to say, "Hey, check this thing out," you could do it over there in an appropriate place. That Beta Test area is due to be split into two sections, one for real Beta Testing of products and services and another to be called something like "Read This" or "Check It Out," where you can post that type of material. That should help route people in the right place.

In the end, the mods are making their best judgements about what seems to be an appropriate link, and I do think we fall on the side of being very liberal.

If anyone feels they had a mod remove a link for an inappropriate reason, feel free to PM Elisabeth, who can give it a second review.

Similarly, if anyone feels a mod needs to have a link edited from one of their posts, PM Elisabeth as well.

Finally, this is a good time to raise the issue that we're considering disabling live links. We'd really like to know what people think, so please discuss over here: Should We Disable Live Links? (http://forums.searchenginewatch.com/showthread.php?t=3008)