Where to begin?/SEOSP

[soulspin]

Greetings,

I'm new at search engine optimization and I'm in charge of a new site for a new company. Whether I do it or whether I find a service to do it, I need help on optimizing our site.

So far as I've done basic research and it was recommended we buy the service that SEOSP offers. I'm not sure how much this service will help. They've been very slow with responses and though I'm not perfect, they make a lot of grammatical errors in their correspondence and within their web site and that concerns me. I received our first report and it was VERY vague and didn't tell me anything I hadn't already found out for free.

I'm interested in finding a service that not only optimizes, but also works with web design. We do have a site that I created, but the only software I had to work with here was Microsoft Publisher and it's a horrible program for serious web design (I'm the graphic designer here, but the web-site is just a side job for me). I'm not really sure where to begin...I've searched for "web developers" and "web design" of course...My bosses are not ready for a top of the line site that costs thousands of dollars to create and optimize, but they will spend money for the right product and results.

The goal is for us to be on the first page of search engines...of course. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[seobook]

My bosses are not ready for a top of the line site that costs thousands of dollars to create and optimize, but they will spend money for the right product and results.

The goal is for us to be on the first page of search engines...of course. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
from that seosp site:
# Submission to 5,00,000+ search engines, directories, classifieds and FFA sites.
# Doorway Pages.

I would probably stick away from that.

first page of results may or may not be worth it. same thing with buying services from an all in one design and seo firm, etc. odds are that you need to define solid goals before you start, and if your boss wants a great looking site that converts and ranks well it will probably cost a good bit (time, money, or both...either way you will be paying for it)

[soulspin]

from that seosp site:
# Submission to 5,00,000+ search engines, directories, classifieds and FFA sites.
# Doorway Pages.

I would probably stick away from that.

first page of results may or may not be worth it. same thing with buying services from an all in one design and seo firm, etc. odds are that you need to define solid goals before you start, and if your boss wants a great looking site that converts and ranks well it will probably cost a good bit (time, money, or both...either way you will be paying for it)

I know, goals are good things...but the problem is, my bosses are not familar with the web and search engines and my job is to figure out how to be on the first page of search engines when people type in certain keywords. That's just what they want.

I've also heard about Overture....any experience with bidding on keywords?

[seobook]

I know, goals are good things...but the problem is, my bosses are not familar with the web and search engines and my job is to figure out how to be on the first page of search engines when people type in certain keywords. That's just what they want.

I've also heard about Overture....any experience with bidding on keywords?
in my opinion it is part of your job to define what they really want when they say page one results. if it is just your company name that may not be hard. if they just mean overture or adwords ads that may not be hard. IMHO you need more info on what exactly they are looking for.

keep in mind that if you want to rank well for generic terms in competitive fields the competitive forces of the market will require how much education and spend is required to compete.

don't forget to leverage what good business partnerships you have. until you have specific goals then you really do not know where you want to start. you also can use Overture and Google AdWords off the start to check search volumes and help get a rough glance of how competitive your markets may be.

[soulspin]

in my opinion it is part of your job to define what they really want when they say page one results. if it is just your company name that may not be hard. if they just mean overture or adwords ads that may not be hard. IMHO you need more info on what exactly they are looking for.

keep in mind that if you want to rank well for generic terms in competitive fields the competitive forces of the market will require how much education and spend is required to compete.

don't forget to leverage what good business partnerships you have. until you have specific goals then you really do not know where you want to start. you also can use Overture and Google AdWords off the start to check search volumes and help get a rough glance of how competitive your markets may be.

They want to be #1 when people type in ****. I already know that. And actually, I have an entirely different job that takes up most of my time, but I'm supposed to either get us to show up on page #1 when people type in ****** or find a company that can do it for us. I don't have the time, hence why I need suggestions on companies that can help.

thanks

[seobook]

if you are too busy to do it yourself you probably should have posted this thread into request services. hopefully a moderator will help you move it there :)

also it may not be a good idea to display your desired keyword(s) openly in forums unless you are not worried about competitors.

[soulspin]

I'm new here and I didn't know. I apologize.

[powerofeyes]

In my opinion I would recommend you to do some research before selecting any SEO company, Make sure they dont recommend or do any tactics which are frown upon by search engines,

See how well their client sites rank, How well their site ranks, their testimonials from clients, Client reference etc,

In my opinion SEO is a long term strategy and a tedious job for any SEO company, It is also a costly process so research before you decide a company,

[DaveN]

any seo company saying "We offer you an affordable plan of $24.95 per month"

Man thats so cheap, NO in fact it's too cheap if you work out a hourly rate thats like 15 mins a month if that ... lol ... me thinks you don't get much apart from a quick blast through WPG which leaves a footprint and will get a quick pen from Google .... pay me $24.95 a MONTH and i will be honest... did nothing but went to pub and had a drink on your kind donation, what do you expect for $24.95 a month ...oh hum

DaveN

[soulspin]

The suggestion to go with that service was from a friend of theirs who has used it for awhile and seems to like it. He has a lot of success with his website(s) and he uses that service and Overture. Maybe all of his success is from Overture and keywords etc? Shrug...who knows...I know what you mean though. It has scam written all over it...30 day money back guarantee. We'll see :eek:

[DaveN]

soulspin if you get your money back find me at a conference ses , wmw or seoroadshow and i will buy you that $25 in beer....

Believe me a good seo you pay for...

#1 get then too explain what and why they are doing
#2 be open minded ... if they say we need to remove this page and add these... listen to their reasons
#3 ask their clients... NDA's sometimes make is hard
#4 build up trust .. don't just trust
#5 reward them when things work out

DaveN

[soulspin]

Here's the report I got - only after asking 3 times for it...
They got the money on the 11th. I got this today. There's nothing here that even includes the site. They are "writing down some suggestions"....when will we get those...in another 2 weeks? So, you think the guarantee is BS eh. I hope it's not because I could go for some beer about now...


Your web site has been submitted to search engines and we are writing down some suggestions for better search engine ranking of your site :

--- Try to add more of your main keywords in the title tag of home page.

--- Try to add more keywords in meta description & keywords tags of home page.

--- Try to put keyword rich paragraphs on home page .... to increase the keyword density & frequency, as search engines give more priority to home page & love the text matter.

--- Try to add keywords in image alt tag & comments tag.

--- Sub pages are also missing the keywords in title tag.

--- Try to add more keywords in meta description & keywords tags of sub pages also.

--- MOST IMPORTANT !!!!!!!! .... link popularity (incoming & outgoing link with other site) is nill, so try to exchange link with other sites.


Link Popularity :

Alltheweb: 0
AltaVista: 0
Google/ AOL: 0
HotBot/ Inktomi: 0
MSN: 0

==============================================
Broken links, ordered by link:
0 broken link(s) reported
================================================

Some general suggestions:

- Keywords in title tag.
- Keywords in meta keywords and description tags.
- Keywords in alt tag of images.
- Keywords should be present in page text.
- Keywords in link name.
- Have no broken links.
- Keywords in heading tags <h>.
- Try to use phrases.
- Try to use misspell keywords too.
- Have a good link popularity of site.
- Link Popularity means how many incoming & outgoing links are there with other sites.
- Use of comment tag for keywords.
- Image Map stops some search engines to crawl the links, so also put link text on page.

[ihelpyou]

LOL Sorry, but that's something any joesmoe out there could have written to you without even looking at your website. See what you get for 25 bucks?

Optimizing a website would mean the SEO would be doing the edits to your site. Actual edits, and not simply giving you a laundry list of things you might do. Too funny.

[soulspin]

LOL Sorry, but that's something any joesmoe out there could have written to you without even looking at your website. See what you get for 25 bucks?

Optimizing a website would mean the SEO would be doing the edits to your site. Actual edits, and not simply giving you a laundry list of things you might do. Too funny.
You have no idea how frustrated I am. I obviously know what's up. Glad to give you a laugh though.

[David Wallace]

Sounds more like you are paying for a report generating service. A truly professional SEO does many of those things they are suggesting. They don't just tell you that you should do it. Heck, if you knew how to do it, then why would you hire them in the first place?

Also a couple of comments of some of the things they wrote:

--- Try to add keywords in image alt tag & comments tag.

First of alt attributes as they are properly called are not for keyword stuffing. Even if you can incorporate keywords into them while also maintaining their intended use, search engines only give weight to alt attributes in liked images. Therefore if your images are not linked to another page, the alt attribute should really just describe the image. If they are linked, they should describe the page they are linking to. Also, comment tags do nothing for SEO. They are to comment on certain things in the html. SEs ignore them.

--- Try to add more of your main keywords in the title tag of home page.

--- Try to add more keywords in meta description & keywords tags of home page.

--- Try to put keyword rich paragraphs on home page .... to increase the keyword density & frequency, as search engines give more priority to home page & love the text matter.

The idea of SEO is to take certain pages of your site and make sure that they keywords that are related to them are represented in things like the title tag, the meta description tag and the copy, not just to throw in keywords everywhere. There is more art to it than that.

Bottom line, is that if you don't know SEO, then you should either learn it by frequenting forums, reading articles, asking questions, etc., or if you don't have time to learn it (or don't want to) hire someone who is actually going to do it for you and not just charge you money to tell you "general" things you should do yourself. It is kind of like going to the doctor and having him tell you to operate on your own heart!

Sorry you are frustrated but at least you have come here and asked some of these questions. Now you can have a better understanding of what you need to do. Just feel fortunate that you did not invest great sums because I have seen scenarios where others paid a hefty price and essentially get nothing in return. Good luck in your efforts.

[soulspin]

Sounds more like you are paying for a report generating service. A truly professional SEO does many of those things they are suggesting. They don't just tell you that you should do it. Heck, if you knew how to do it, then why would you hire them in the first place?

Also a couple of comments of some of the things they wrote:



First of alt attributes as they are properly called are not for keyword stuffing. Even if you can incorporate keywords into them while also maintaining their intended use, search engines only give weight to alt attributes in liked images. Therefore if your images are not linked to another page, the alt attribute should really just describe the image. If they are linked, they should describe the page they are linking to. Also, comment tags do nothing for SEO. They are to comment on certain things in the html. SEs ignore them.



The idea of SEO is to take certain pages of your site and make sure that they keywords that are related to them are represented in things like the title tag, the meta description tag and the copy, not just to throw in keywords everywhere. There is more art to it than that.

Bottom line, is that if you don't know SEO, then you should either learn it by frequenting forums, reading articles, asking questions, etc., or if you don't have time to learn it (or don't want to) hire someone who is actually going to do it for you and not just charge you money to tell you "general" things you should do yourself. It is kind of like going to the doctor and having him tell you to operate on your own heart!

Sorry you are frustrated but at least you have come here and asked some of these questions. Now you can have a better understanding of what you need to do. Just feel fortunate that you did not invest great sums because I have seen scenarios where others paid a hefty price and essentially get nothing in return. Good luck in your efforts.
David, thank you (and everyone) you have been very helpful. Luckily I have invested nothing financially - but then again these people do pay me so that's not quite true. I wrote the seo service and assertively told them what's up...maybe it won't do any good, maybe it will. Maybe I'm being impatient??? But 2 weeks is a long time to wait for ANY word - especially when it's a list of BS they display on their site for free. But if you read their "Features" page they talk a lot about all they will do...and I haven't seen any of that except the initial submission process...Of course I used things like addme to submit my personal site and paid nothing...

Thanks again...

-Victoria

[soulspin]

More importantly than talking about them...how do I find a reputable service?? ;) or is that a silly question?

[seobook]

More importantly than talking about them...how do I find a reputable service?? ;) or is that a silly question?
find people who seem like they would be compatible. shop around. ask questions. see if the people who provide then answers you like are for hire...also there are a couple sites where you can look for SEOs:
http://www.seopros.org/
http://www.seoconsultants.com/

look for people who want to seriously talk with you at least a bit to find out exactly what you need before taking large sums of money or quoting you some arbitrary package price that may or may not fit your needs.

[Marcia]

I don't know if the latest versions of Publisher are any better, but I've seen a few home-made sites done up in MS Publisher and if those are any indication, the code was so bad that they needed a redesign before any SEO could possibly be done.

Where you begin depends on how much money the company is willing to spend to get the results they want. If they're willing to spend nothing, they'll get exactly what they pay for - nothing.

Basically, the natural place to begin is with a search engine friendly site. Not necessarily a fancy one, just adequate to accomplish the purpose any company has, which is to get traffic that increases their business. Just like that can't be done for free with yellow pages or magazine advertising, it can't be done for free online unless it's being done in-house; so then, the cost is factored in to someone's salary.

If a simple site is "made ready" then if the keywords aren't overly competitive you may be able to do it yourself with a learn_as_you_go approach, if you study and apply yourself, with nothing more than a personalized needs assessment - or analysis and recommendations of what it is you need to do, preferably prior to a redesign if the site needs one, including suggesting which keyword phrases to go after and explaining why; and then, maybe an occasional bit of consulting as it moves along. It isn't rocket science, just about anyone capable of learning can learn to do it themselves given a bit of time, if they're serious about it and apply themselves.

Some companies or individuals simply don't have any money to spend on a site or on promoting it, but in other cases the individual or company actually can afford it but is unwilling to make the investment. It can make a big difference which one of the two it is.

[Nacho]

No wonder why its important for Improving The Reputation Of The SEM Industry (http://forums.searchenginewatch.com/showthread.php?t=566). Its a good thing that Members come to the forum and ask before going down the wrong path.

Soulspin, please listen carefully to these Members. They are trying to help you for the same reasons they want to see our industry with a better reputaiton oriented in good results and $25 can NOT get you very far at all.

[soulspin]

find people who seem like they would be compatible. shop around. ask questions. see if the people who provide then answers you like are for hire...also there are a couple sites where you can look for SEOs:
http://www.seopros.org/
http://www.seoconsultants.com/

look for people who want to seriously talk with you at least a bit to find out exactly what you need before taking large sums of money or quoting you some arbitrary package price that may or may not fit your needs.


Thanks for the links.
Thanks for everyone's input.
I am listening.