Google says "Below First Page Bid" even with no competion

[wordcounterwiz]

I'm not understanding this.
I placed an ad using Google's suggested bid (0.35) - my ad ran for couple hours then disappeared. Back at the control panel Google tells me I need to raise my bid to 0.45 to be on first page. So I do that - and my ad runs for another couple hours and then disappears. Back at the control panel Google now tells me I need to raise my bid to $1.00 to be on page one.

The confusing thing is that I'm targeting keywords with zero competition on the SERPs - that is, no other ads show up in Google search when I look for my keywords.

Have any ideas what's going on? There's no way I'll pay $1.00 per click for what I'm marketing - especially with no apparent competiton on the page.

Thanks

[AussieWebmaster]

yeah have run in to that a lot - it is the arbitragers revenge - Google changes value of even non ad running keywords when they know they have a value - they test you and know eventually you will come back and work the CTR and QS to lower the bid but in short term they are making bank

[sitetruth]

That may be illegal. Google is in California. See California Civil Code section 1812.608 (http://law.justia.com/california/codes/civ/1812.600-1812.609.html), which regulates auctions: "It is a violation of this title for any person to do any of the following: ... (1) Stating any increased bid greater than that offered by the last highest bidder when, in fact, no person has made such a bid."

Google is running an auction. Definition in California law: "Auction" means a sale transaction conducted by means of oral or written exchanges, which include exchanges made in person or through electronic media, between an auctioneer and the members of his or her audience, which exchanges consist of a series of invitations for offers for the purchase of goods made by the auctioneer and offers to purchase made by members of the audience and culminate in the acceptance by the auctioneer of the highest or most favorable offer made by a member of the participating audience.

Also, "Any waiver of the provisions of this title is contrary to public policy, and is void and unenforceable."

And, "Except as otherwise provided in this title, any person
who violates any provision of this title is guilty of a misdemeanor, which offense is punishable by a fine not exceeding one thousand dollars ($1,000), or by imprisonment in a county jail for not more than one year, or by both that fine and imprisonment. In addition, upon a conviction of any violation of this chapter, or of any crime related to the conduct of an auctioneer, the court may issue an injunction and prohibit the convicted person from acting as an auctioneer or an auction company in this state, in which case the court shall inform the Secretary of State of that action."

eBay has had problems with this.

[wordcounterwiz]

Hmmm....that's interesting.
I suppose Google could always say that there are in fact competitors for my keywords - but I don't see them because those competitors are using the content network exclusively. However, I doubt this is happening.

[jag]

wordcounterwiz, yes along with that there are chances for targeted location, local search keywords and it will not be seen in your surf IP.

Best,

[AdWordsRep]

I'm not understanding this.
I placed an ad using Google's suggested bid (0.35) - my ad ran for couple hours then disappeared. Back at the control panel Google tells me I need to raise my bid to 0.45 to be on first page. So I do that - and my ad runs for another couple hours and then disappears. Back at the control panel Google now tells me I need to raise my bid to $1.00 to be on page one.

The confusing thing is that I'm targeting keywords with zero competition on the SERPs - that is, no other ads show up in Google search when I look for my keywords.

Have any ideas what's going on? There's no way I'll pay $1.00 per click for what I'm marketing - especially with no apparent competiton on the page.

yeah have run in to that a lot - it is the arbitragers revenge - Google changes value of even non ad running keywords when they know they have a value - they test you and know eventually you will come back and work the CTR and QS to lower the bid but in short term they are making bank

That may be illegal. Google is in California. See California Civil Code section 1812.608 , which regulates auctions: "It is a violation of this title for any person to do any of the following: ... (1) Stating any increased bid greater than that offered by the last highest bidder when, in fact, no person has made such a bid." [...]

I am a little late to the game, having been on vacation for the past week - but I think there is a very basic misunderstanding going on here. Based on what you have written, wordcounterwiz, you are are almost certainly speaking of your first page bid estimate - and this is not connected with the auction for ad position. Instead, it relates to Quality Score.

The first page bid estimate for a keyword is not highly related to how many (or how few) competitors an advertiser has for the keyword. As mentioned above, minimum bid is more heavily related to the Quality Score of the keyword as it is used in an individual advertiser's account.

By the way when you encounter keywords for which there are no (or very few) competitors, it does not necessarily mean that no one has thought of using that keyword and it is thus a great opportunity to advertise cheaply.

In fact it often means exactly the opposite: that the advertisers who have used it in the past have found it difficult to keep it running affordably (due perhaps to a lack of 'commercial intent' on the part of those searching on the keyword) and have decided to stop using it.

A bit more information on this may be found on this page from the AdWords Help Center:

Why is my first page bid high if there are no ads showing?
http://adwords.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=104242

AWR

[wordcounterwiz]

Thanks, AdwordRep, for commenting on my thread.

I'm trying to understand your logic in all this - in regard to quality score factors and such.

However, I think you have to appreciate my confusion here - I'm ready and willing to pay Google 0.50 per click to run my ad - for a couple of keywords that generate NO other competitors on the main result search pages - not on page one, not on page two, not on page ten. Nowhere, zilch.

We can talk about quality score theory all we want - but in simple terms of marketplace economics - why would Google prefer to earn $0 on my keywords rather than let me pay $0.50 per click? Google wants me to raise my bid to $1.00 - but I'll tell you right now, that ain't going to happen.

Still confused.

[wordcounterwiz]

...advertisers who have used it in the past have found it difficult to keep it running affordably...and have decided to stop using it.


In business economics, this is called a a drop in demand - which in any other marketplace would send a signal to the producer that he/she should lower the price of that product (not raise it).

[AdWordsRep]

In business economics, this is called a a drop in demand - which in any other marketplace would send a signal to the producer that he/she should lower the price of that product (not raise it).

I suppose that if ad quality were of no concern to the producer (in this case Google), this might be the case. But ad quality is a concern - and Google would rather show no ads than to show ads likely to provide a poor user experience (where user means those who search on Google, and rely on Google to provide highly relevant search results.)

For anyone interested in more information on this general subject, a good place to start is here:

Quality Score and First Page Bid Estimates
http://adwords.google.com/support/aw/bin/topic.py?hl=en-au&topic=22042

Bottom line, to lower ones estimated first page bid, one would want to improve quality. Towards that end, I think the page linked-to below offers a useful overview of how to think about AdWords - and how to set up an AdWords account using very targeted keywords which bring up very targeted ads, using ad groups and campaigns to one's advantage:

Tips for success
http://adwords.google.com/support/aw/bin/static.py?hl=en-au&page=tips.html

The topics covered on this page - which are essential to using AdWords effectively, in my opinion:

1. Identify your advertising goals.
2. Organize your account for maximum effectiveness.
3. Choose relevant keywords and placements.
4. Create straightforward, targeted ads.
5. Optimize your website for conversions.
6. Track your account performance.
7. Test and modify your campaigns to get the results you want.

AWR

[AussieWebmaster]

Thanks AWR - I understand where wordcounterwhiz is coming from - I had the same affront when first getting involved with ppc - it is not a conspiracy just coming from a different viewpoint

[wordcounterwiz]

Okay...not to beat this thing into the ground - but...

I suppose I can accept the logic behind Google saying that they would rather SHOW NO ADS to showing ads that are not relevant to a users search query. And I understand that Google uses Quality Scores to determine that relevancy.

What doesn't make sense is this - According to the guidelines that Google offers for improving Quality Scores - my ad should get the gold medal. Here's an example to show my point:

Google says: Each ad group should centre on a single product or service.
(A) I have one ad group - one ad - one product. That's as centered as I can get.

Google says: Include specific keywords that directly relate to the specific theme of your ad group and landing page.
(B) I'm only using two keyword phrases. And those keywords are in my ad title, my ad copy, my ad URL, my landing page domain name. The only variations I've applied are in regard to broad, phrase, and exact matches.

Google says: Include websites and other places that are relevant to your products or services.
(C) Again, couldn't be more relevant. My website offers one thing - which is a direct match to the keywords (all two of them) that I'm targeting.

Google says: Include your keywords in your ad text (especially the title)
(D) Check - did it.

Google says: Create simple, enticing ads.
(E) I would say I passed this test with flying colors - for the few minutes that Google did run my ad - I had click thu rates ranging from 1.05 percent to 14.3 percent. My ads haven't run since - not on page one, not on page ten.

Sorry, but I think these are all valid points.

[Web Marketer]

Good thread...got a great things to learn....