Np Follow Links

[savantcreative]

I have heard that one should nofollow links on their site to lesser internal pages, for eample using a nofollow link form one's home page to one's conatct us page becasue it preserves "link juice" and adds to Page Rank.

I have also heard that one should nofollow all external links to other sites.

Can you give me some advice?

Thank you

[metasynman]

For internal pages, I tend to agree that if Google is going to index a page on my site, I don't want the first thing a user sees to be the contact page, about us, terms of use, policies, etc. Definitely look at doing NOFOLLOW's for run-of-site links to these pages. Specific instances of content links should be evaluated separately.

As for exit links, if you don't have any agreements with the target sites to include their links on your page, feel free to NOFOLLOW them at will. Although some publishing sites don't bother and look at it as simply using SEO linking the way it was naturally intended. Think of it as "I'm linking to your site because I like it," rather than because you paid me. Google actually gives you extra credit depending on the exit links on your site to a similar degree as it regards incoming links. Just be careful who you link to... having links directed at spam-heavy or blacklisted sites can be just as detrimental to your page ranking as having links on those sites direct to you.

[savantcreative]

For internal pages, I tend to agree that if Google is going to index a page on my site, I don't want the first thing a user sees to be the contact page, about us, terms of use, policies, etc. Definitely look at doing NOFOLLOW's for run-of-site links to these pages. Specific instances of content links should be evaluated separately.

As for exit links, if you don't have any agreements with the target sites to include their links on your page, feel free to NOFOLLOW them at will. Although some publishing sites don't bother and look at it as simply using SEO linking the way it was naturally intended. Think of it as "I'm linking to your site because I like it," rather than because you paid me. Google actually gives you extra credit depending on the exit links on your site to a similar degree as it regards incoming links. Just be careful who you link to... having links directed at spam-heavy or blacklisted sites can be just as detrimental to your page ranking as having links on those sites direct to you.
Thanks for your advice.
Cheers

[jimbeetle]

If you do decide to nofollow certain internal links be sure to proceed with extreme caution. I've been able to pick up some nice extra change for very easy work since this has become one of the SEO methods of the moment.

Keep in mind that certain site elements such as contact information, privacy policy, ToS -- all those overhead pages -- might, possibly, maybe, could be (pick one) used as signals of trust.

Also, if you use any SE search as your site search you do want theses pages to appear in the index for the many people who have been conditioned to use a search box and do not look around for nav links.

[beu]

Keep in mind that certain site elements such as contact information, privacy policy, ToS -- all those overhead pages -- might, possibly, maybe, could be (pick one) used as signals of trust.

GRRREAT points Jim, that can't be stressed enough! ;)

http://blog.searchenginewatch.com/blog/080314-101545

[savantcreative]

If you do decide to nofollow certain internal links be sure to proceed with extreme caution. I've been able to pick up some nice extra change for very easy work since this has become one of the SEO methods of the moment.

Keep in mind that certain site elements such as contact information, privacy policy, ToS -- all those overhead pages -- might, possibly, maybe, could be (pick one) used as signals of trust.

Also, if you use any SE search as your site search you do want theses pages to appear in the index for the many people who have been conditioned to use a search box and do not look around for nav links.
Thanks for your reply but if you use a nofollow link it does not mean that the url will not be listed only that you are not passing value to it. Do you agree?
Thanks

[beu]

Thanks for your reply but if you use a nofollow link it does not mean that the url will not be listed only that you are not passing value to it. Do you agree?
Thanks
Yes, it boils down to the content on these pages that you are considering nofollowing. Just to be clear, I'm saying not to nofollow each and every link to your "about us" page for example. I would consider linking to these pages from your home page without a nofollow but perhaps from other pages with nofollows. I believe every page can be designed to include a call to action and therefore every page can be important. Keep in mind that nofollowing internal links within a site is advanced and perhaps secondary in focus. In other words, this is for sites already ranking well in most cases.

If you want to prevent a page from being indexed it is best to use noindex meta in the head of the page you wish not to be indexed.

[savantcreative]

Yes, it boils down to the content on these pages that you are considering nofollowing. Just to be clear, I'm saying not to nofollow each and every link to your "about us" page for example. I would consider linking to these pages from your home page without a nofollow but perhaps from other pages with nofollows. I believe every page can be designed to include a call to action and therefore every page can be important. Keep in mind that nofollowing internal links within a site is advanced and perhaps secondary in focus. In other words, this is for sites already ranking well in most cases.

If you want to prevent a page from being indexed it is best to use noindex meta in the head of the page you wish not to be indexed.

Thanks for your clarification. I see your point now.
Best regards

[jimbeetle]

Thanks for your reply but if you use a nofollow link it does not mean that the url will not be listed only that you are not passing value to it. Do you agree?
No. We don't know the precise policies of each search engine. I believe the best guidance we have so far is from Google, that states that it does not use nofollowed links for discovery. So these pages will not be indexed unless discovered through other, non-nofollowed links.

[Marcosll]

If you don't want those pages in google's results you have to use noindex. If you only use nofollow you're not guaranteed that the spiders won't find the page through other means (or other pages linking to them from the net) and index them.

[seostew]

If you do decide to nofollow certain internal links be sure to proceed with extreme caution. I've been able to pick up some nice extra change for very easy work since this has become one of the SEO methods of the moment.

Keep in mind that certain site elements such as contact information, privacy policy, ToS -- all those overhead pages -- might, possibly, maybe, could be (pick one) used as signals of trust.

Also, if you use any SE search as your site search you do want theses pages to appear in the index for the many people who have been conditioned to use a search box and do not look around for nav links.

Nofollow is not to be confused with noindex. Google can still see they are there, it just doesn't pass the link juice.

[jimbeetle]

Nofollow is not to be confused with noindex. Google can still see they are there, it just doesn't pass the link juice.
No, that's why you have to completely understand how nofollow works before using it internally in order to sculpt PageRank. A quote by Matt Cutts from an SEOmoz interview (http://www.seomoz.org/blog/questions-answers-with-googles-spam-guru):

...for Google, nofollow'ed links are dropped out of our link graph; we don't even use such links for discovery. By the way, the nofollow meta tag does that same thing, but at a page level.

Three very important points: Dropped out of the link graph; Not used for discovery; Does the same as the nofollow meta.

So yeah, Google does know the link is there. It might even index it as a URL-only listing as it does when blocked by robots.txt (though I haven't as yet noticed this). But if nofollow is used on internal links you must be sure such pages are reachable by at least one straight link that can be followed.

[seostew]

No, that's why you have to completely understand how nofollow works before using it internally in order to sculpt PageRank. A quote by Matt Cutts from an SEOmoz interview (http://www.seomoz.org/blog/questions-answers-with-googles-spam-guru):



Three very important points: Dropped out of the link graph; Not used for discovery; Does the same as the nofollow meta.

So yeah, Google does know the link is there. It might even index it as a URL-only listing as it does when blocked by robots.txt (though I haven't as yet noticed this). But if nofollow is used on internal links you must be sure such pages are reachable by at least one straight link that can be followed.

Yes. I've read and cited that interview. What about old links that Google does not have to "discover," because they already have? Do they eventually fall out of the index if the only links are internal. Surely they would not if outside sites link to them. So it does make it different than "noindex."

[jimbeetle]

What about old links that Google does not have to "discover," because they already have? Do they eventually fall out of the index if the only links are internal.
I don't think we know that as yet.

Surely they would not if outside sites link to them.
That's a very big IF. Would you actually depend on outside links to get your pages indexed when you have total control internally?

[seostew]

I don't think we know that as yet.


That's a very big IF. Would you actually depend on outside links to get your pages indexed when you have total control internally?

No I wouldn't depend on that. I didn't say that. So what you are saying is "we don't know." That's fine.

Here's an example. You have a footer for a site that links to major pages. The footer links are on many of the pages. There are several other links to the page of no consequence internally, but you don't want to waste your homepage juice on that sending value to that page, so you use a "nofollow" on the link from the homepage, but no other.

The page will still be in search, so it is unlike "noindex" if the page was already indexed, but it doesn't deplete your homepage juice and it's still indexed. Would you say that is good use of "nofollow" different that "noindex?"

[jimbeetle]

Well first, let's clarify. I said "I don't think we know as yet," only to your first question. Now let's go on.

Here's an example. You have a footer for a site that links to major pages. The footer links are on many of the pages. There are several other links to the page of no consequence internally, but you don't want to waste your homepage juice on that sending value to that page, so you use a "nofollow" on the link from the homepage, but no other.

That's what we've been saying. If you are going to use nofollow on internal links you must be absolutely sure that those pages are able to be reached by other, internal, links.

The page will still be in search, so it is unlike "noindex" if the page was already indexed, but it doesn't deplete your homepage juice and it's still indexed. Would you say that is good use of "nofollow" different that "noindex?"
I myself don't think it's a good use of nofollow because as far as we know that is only Google's interpretation of nofollow. How does Yahoo treat it? MSN? Ask? And, you must keep in mind that using nofollow internally to sculpt PR is a non-standard use of that attribute -- everything can change tomorrow.

If you do want to use it, well, fine, but it all goes back to the caution I gave above: Many people who have tried to use it internally mess up somewhere along the line, so proceed with extreme caution.

[beu]

Many people who have tried to use it internally mess up somewhere along the line, so proceed with extreme caution.
Ain't that the truth and sorry I somehow missed a portion of the discussion.

A little background, I recently had a client who thought they could create a site linking to their competition with nofollows and harm the competition's site by doing so. They took Matt's quote literary about making links fall out of the link graph. That is why I said "Yes" earlier, it's not that nofollowing on one page prevents pages from being listed if they are not nofollowed on another page. I think jim and I interpreted the question differently but are saying the same thing.

That's what we've been saying. If you are going to use nofollow on internal links you must be absolutely sure that those pages are able to be reached by other, internal, links.
Good point, that is why I suggested leaving an open path from the home page to links nofollowed by other pages in my earlier post. I got to looking and Matt suggests the same tactic as Jim and I in this more recent interview:
http://www.stonetemple.com/articles/interview-matt-cutts.shtml

By the way, really great thread!